[lily cd re]

To clarify Eriand is the breeder of my mom's dog who I co-own. I also would not particularly characterize Eriand as a hobby breeder since Erica and her mother have shown many dogs to championships over the course of many years.


As to scams, yes some people are scammers and one should see written records or be given OFA/CHIC numbers to verify that information but there is being usefully skeptical and then there is being beyond reasonably so, to the point of missing out on a good pup because one doesn't like the appearance of a website or thinking a person isn't a good breeder because they are slow to respond to a query. Most breeders have real lives with other responsibilities in addition to breeding. Good breeding doesn't actually make enough money to be a job.

 

[joedesimone]

Please, before it's too late...

I am NOT coping with Ricky's death - as I shared, I agreed to an operation and the neurosurgeon killed him - and I am in the process of going forward with a new puppy. From Eriand.

IS Eriand a reputable breeder or NOT?

I really need to know.

When we bought Ricky, we were clueless idiots. We drove to Canada from NY (yes, clueless idiots) and the breeder - Doris Grant, hopefully no longer in business - aka a broker for a puppy mill dog, sold us Ricky, whom we found out later came from Florida. Here's hoping karma has visited Doris, and the neurosurgeon, for that matter.

So, I read about Eriand here, and thought I could go forward with confidence.

SHOULD I be going forward with confidence on this breeder or not? She did not require much of anything over the phone except for a $500. down payment.

I can NOT go through this again, i.e., buying what I expect to be a breeder's dog when I am getting a backyard 'small tragedy', as per George Carlin.

I am ready to lose my $500. deposit, because I can not face this heartache again. I have learned to avoid lying neurosurgeons at Guardian Veterinary Specialists, but I am trying to do better with the breeder.

Thank you.

 

[117267]

Joe, first of all, I'm so sorry for the very painful loss you've experienced. The grief that you're feeling over Ricky is probably making it difficult to think clearly in buying a puppy.

I don't have the time to go through every post, so I'm not sure what your concerns are about Eriand--could you please list them, or post direct links to the posts about them?

There are many good breeders out there and if you have any reservations, it might be best to wait. When I purchased a Maltese from a show breeder about 10 years ago, I had heard good things and also a few red flag-y things about the breeder (nothing puppy mill-ish, just temperament issues in the dogs), but I chose to listen to the good and surprise, surprise, the puppy did not work out (shy temperament). A friend recently bought a toy poodle from a breeder who didn't necessarily have any bad reviews out there, but she also didn't have any good reviews. The puppy was a mismatch for my friend and her family and resulted in a very emotionally taxing re-homing and loss of thousands of dollars.

Bottom line: EVERY puppy purchase is somewhat of a risk. However, if you are hearing some negative things about any breeder, LISTEN carefully--there is a reason for them! If you can go meet the breeder and the puppy in person before buying, all the better. And as my friend suggested, get many references from the breeder and call them.

 

[joedesimone]

Thank you, Maizie. Nothing specific, I'm just trying to see if I understand what I am reading in this thread. Until this thread, I didn't understand hobby vs backyard breeding. Mea culpa on me.

I don't understand if what kontiki is looking for and what Eriand provides is necessary. The back and forth on those posts is disconcerting.

I understand some people here are happy with their Eriand Poodles, so it is no doubt my fault in overreacting.

I am most interested in the health of the puppy.

 

[Getting ready]

Hi,
I am not versed in the world of showing poodles. What I do know is this. My last two pups were from a backyard breeder. Eriand is not that. They have shown many dogs. More importantly, my pups parents and grandparents were on the OFA database with their health results. Noodle is young yet but my vet has not expressed any health concerns. PM me if I can answer more questions.

 

[joedesimone]

Hi,
I am not versed in the world of showing poodles. What I do know is this. My last two pups were from a backyard breeder. Eriand is not that. They have shown many dogs. More importantly, my pups parents and grandparents were on the OFA database with their health results. Noodle is young yet but my vet has not expressed any health concerns. PM me if I can answer more questions.

Oh I didn't get that impression, Getting Ready. I know the dam of the puppy has been shown, and that Eriand is not a backyard breeder.

I don't know where Ricky came from. He was a mess, but he was the love of my life, and I didn't do right by him. I want a healthier puppy going forward and I will love him with all my heart, have learned from my mistakes, and look forward to many years with him.

I am just confused at whatever it is kontiki keeps going on about and more importantly, why here?

Thank you Getting Ready.

 

[117267]

Just sent you a private message, Joe.

 

[Vita]

Joedesimone, I completed missed your thread in the Senior Poodle Concerns subforum in the Poodle Health forum, Three different illnesses suddenly hit, at the same time.

You have my condolences about the loss of your 14 year old minipoo, Ricky, after a neurological surgery. When you mentioned Ricky in this thread, I searched your most recent posts and found it, which clarified that he wasn't an Eriand poodle, and on this thread you're wondering if you should get another one, this time from Eriand, after all you've been through and are still grieving.

I'll share some thoughts. The average mini-poodle lives 12 to 15 years. Ricky fell right into that age range. You gave your all to prolong his life when he fell ill. No dog could wish for a more loving owner.

During your struggle to decide what to do before he passed away, you wrote this in April:

So. I can't believe this as I type it, it appears to come out of left field. It couldn't have of course, I guess this has been brewing.

The latest, in his report to the vet, is that he determined Ricky has facial paralysis, due to his not blinking on prompting. Looking it up, it would explain the open mouth licking, if I am reading correctly, due to tongue paralysis?

All of this due to (?) a cervical tumor or a ruptured disc.

I spoke to his vet and doesn't think Ricky would survive an operation. He is prescribing Gabapentin to manage the pain, along with the prednisone.

What all has been your experience? Given that he has trachea problems and Cushing's, would I be prudent in letting him go through an MRI and an operation? Is it normal to operate on 14 year old dogs with all his problems?

I don't want to sentence him to death by not doing anything, but I don't want to make the rest of his life worse. Thank you.

Whose the Blame?

I don't believe for a second that you sentenced him to a death sentence by not doing anything. Time did that, and would have no matter what you or the vet did. I don't him the vet as being at fault.

Doctors and vets try to save lives when possible. The ideal situation would have been for your vet to stick to his opinion that Ricky wouldn't survive and operation and refuse to do it, that the odds of recovery were slim. But don't we all hold onto even slim odds when there's a chance to save a loved one? You are not at fault either; you are blameless.

As for Ricky's original breeder. I don't know her history, but do know there is no genetic DNA test to identify dogs that will develop Cushings disorder. A much better breeder would not have bred dogs that have this disorder in their family tree. At this point in your situation, her breeding practices are no longer relevant since you'll never buy another puppy from her again and others know about the Cushings and whatever other problems she has/had with her lines.

What Would Be Different?

But think about this: Ricky came from imperfect health ancestry where it may have run in his family, but you got the sweetest, best ever poodle from her. At the age of 14 he developed a tumor in a vulnerable area that could have happened to any elderly dog or person. If you could go back in time, knowing the joy he'd bring you, but also knowing how his life would take a turn for the worse in 14 years, would you have passed up getting him?

As hard as you've been grieving and continue to grieve, my guess is no, and that the only thing you'd do differently is to skip the surgery and let Time take it's course. But the thing is, we never know the future. You couldn't have possibly known he wouldn't survive the surgery because there was a chance he would.


With These Words

I hope with these words you can let go of the guilt and anger. The pain is still there. Just as how everyone's days are numbered, grieving has its own time table that differs from one person to the next.

I have no idea when you'll be ready for a new puppy. When I lost my poodle in 2004, I immediately got another one that looked just like my old one. I couldn't bond with it and it ended up being my children's dog.

I waited 13 years to dare to love and get another one, this time getting a different gender and color. This was good call. After I got Bella, I realized I waited far, far too long. Some people find getting a new puppy fairly soon helps a lot. Others need more time. This may be a helpful guideline:


The 7 Stages of Grief (link)

Shock and Denial

When someone first brings you that bad news, it can be difficult to believe. You want to just shake your head and say, "no way." You may start to feel numb. The shock and disbelief are actually suspending your pain, and this may last for several weeks.

This doesn't mean the loss didn't impact you. It's simply the first stage in the grief process.

Pain and Guilt

Once your shock starts to fade, you'll notice the pain. This is when it first starts to hit you that your loss is real. The pain may be extremely difficult to handle, and it may feel physical as well as emotional. You may even start to feel guilty about something you could or should have done for the person (even if it's illogical).

Anger and Bargaining

Next, many people feel angry. You may feel angry with your religion, with someone who was taking care of that person, with the person responsible, or the person themselves. It may be completely unreasonable who you feel angry with, but you seek out someone you can blame for the loss. You may even attempt to bargain to bring that person back.

Depression, Reflection, and Loneliness

Depression, reflection, and loneliness usually come later. When many of your family or friends are starting to overcome their suffering or starting to think you should be overcoming your own suffering, you may feel depressed. It can hit even harder than the initial pain, because you're truly coming to terms with the loss.

You're not feeling the pain as much as feeling the change to your life. Maybe you've lost someone you spent a lot of time with or the person you always told secrets to. This material loss can cause depression, reflection on the way things were, and loneliness as you realize those times are gone.

The Turn

Finally, just when you think there can't possibly be anything good coming ever again, you'll start to feel a little better each day. It may be so slight that you don't even realize it at first, and you won't feel happy all at once. What you may feel is a little less pain, a little less sadness, and more of being okay.

Reconstruction and Working Through

This is where you'll start to work your way through the aftermath of losing that loved one. Maybe you have to take care of some financial troubles either caused by the loss or the grief. Maybe you need to just put yourself back together. This is the stage where it all begins.

Acceptance

The final stage is the one you'll be in for the rest of your life: you start to accept the loss fully and begin to move on with your life. That's not to say you ever "get over it," but that you start to feel okay. You're able to think and talk about your loss without feeling the despair or intense pain. It may make you sad to think about, but it may also make you happy, because now you can remember the good times.

 

[lily cd re]

joedesimone I also just sent you a PM. As I have said above I co-own my mom's Eriand mpoo and have first hand knowledge of this breeder. I don't think you should be worrying, but understand how your grief is making you cautious.

 

[joedesimone]

My apologies to everyone...

and thank you for your PMs. If I could, I would delete my hyper emotional posts.

I thank you for the support and hopefully will be giving a home to a beautiful new boy soon. I hope Ricky will understand.

Thank you lily, Maizie and Getting Ready for your continued support during my imbalance.

Thank you Vita for your words and share.

 

[lily cd re]

and thank you for your PMs. If I could, I would delete my hyper emotional posts.

I thank you for the support and hopefully will be giving a home to a beautiful new boy soon. I hope Ricky will understand.

Thank you lily, Maizie and Getting Ready for your continued support during my imbalance.

Thank you Vita for your words and share.

I actually think one of the greatest tributes one can make to a well loved companion animal that has gone over the bridge is to show that your experiences with them have grown your heart enough to make room for another. Ricky will understand.

 

[Saphire]

Of course Ricky will understand. Eriand also breeds standards and if she had a puppy available I would definitely strongly consider her. Her current litter is minis which while lovely is not what I am seeking. Also,when I got my dog in 2013 I did most of my research on web sites and this forum and of course if you have the full name you can do a health check on OFA or get a pedigree on PoodleData.org. I then sent emails to breeders. These days most breeders are on Facebook and that is the best way to contact them. I come across many websites that have not been updated recently because everything is now on Facebook. I do not think that is true for Eriand as she does update her website when she has puppies but it is true for many breeders and I do not think is a sign of anything. I look to see if the breeder is "friends" with other reputable breeders that I know, if they are part of groups focused on diversity and health testing. Plus many will post their recent accomplishments, whether performance titles or show ring or hunting competitions. Another way to see if they are legitimate

It sounds like Ricky lived a long happy life. 14 is a great age. Our standard died a year ago of a brain illness at age 4. Her parents are both still alive and well and have Chic numbers (fully health tested by their breeder). I researched everything and it still happened and it can. There are no guarantees but I am grateful for the time I had with her. I am still not 100% sure I am ready for a puppy but I think it is time. Is it possible you need more time to grieve?

 

[Mufar42]

joe..I am so glad you are opening your heart to a new pup. I am so very sure Ricky will smile down upon both of you knowing what a wonderful life he had and wishing the best for this pup. I think you shouldn't worry about any emotional posts we all understand and many of us have had our moments. One of the things I love about this forum is we can vent to one another. I for one am looking forward to your continued participation and can't wait to hear about a new story when this pup arrives to give you love.

 

[Viking Queen]

I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I know how difficult this can be. I have at times, waited years before getting a new pup, sometimes a few months and when I lost my 14 yr old, Iris, 3 yrs ago it was a mere 4 days and I had a new baby. A forum member here called me 3 days after Iris died and told me that her breeder had a puppy. I made a long phone call to the breeder, whose impeccable reputation I already knew. That evening she called me back and said my baby would be flown to me the very next day. So, on day 4 after losing my beloved Iris I had Poppy in my arms. Puppies do not take the place of the one you lose but they do bring incredible healing energy, I believe that is guided by our loved ones who have moved on.

I hope that you have as much joy and healing from your new pup as I have had from Poppy.

Please share oots of baby pictures when your new family member arrives. We love poodle babies!

 

[joedesimone]

Thank you Saphire. I overreacted to the posts from someone and I regret it. I have requested that the one post I made be deleted. I agree, the breeder's qualifications are fine. I thought I did need more time, but I have decided the time is right. I am sorry about your standard, you are correct on the time Ricky had.

Mufar, again thank you for your posts. I appreciate your understanding of my overreaction and I will be sure to share Buddy's adorable face when the time is right.

Viking Queen, 'incredible healing energy' sums it up exactly. The tears are less, and of course that doesn't mean I miss Ricky any less, but looking at Buddy's face helps me tremendously. Thank you.

Interesting short story, if I may. I was away recently, and while my friends were shopping, I 'happened' upon an older man waiting for his wife, in a car with window rolled down and a Bichon resting his head on the door. Of course I had to go up to the dog and started talking. The man had, two years ago, lost his Bichon after 14 years and within a month, he couldn't take it anymore (his words), and got the new Bichon. Curious happenstance, don't you think?

Thank you all.

 

[kontiki]

.... while my friends were shopping, I 'happened' upon an older man waiting for his wife, in a car with window rolled down and a Bichon resting his head on the door.

I loved this adorable story

 

[lciano]

I thought this might be helpful to anyone considering a pup from Eriand. I went with Eriand because a few people here recommended them, as did a few other breeders I contacted. The process was different in some ways than the other breeders I contacted so I had some doubts along the way. Spoiler alert. Noodle has been home for one week and he is awesome.

Unlike some breeders, Eriand didn’t ask me to fill out an application or want to meet us before accepting a deposit. She did not ask for references or to talk to our vet. Erica and I had a phone conversation and that was it. I liked her because she was more flexible than some other about what litter we wanted. I contacted Erica when I knew we would be wanting a puppy but I wasn’t sure when. I explained our situation (we had two older dogs that we knew we would have to say goodbye to in the near future but weren’t exactly sure when yet.). She was willing to take a deposit and move it to the next litter if we were not ready. Some other breeders were not.

I did have to send her the deposit on blind faith. There was no contract and I worried a little about what would happen if we decided not to go with an Eriand puppy. That much said, she never deposited my initial check and we did go with Eriand so it all worked out.

I asked for the contract a week or so before pick up day. Now I am a lawyer and it didn’t appear to me that the contract was prepared by a lawyer since, in my opinion, it was missing some elements. However, I pick apart legal docs all day long and didn’t feel like doing it here. The spirit of it was one I could get behind.

I will note that the contract did indicate that, unless otherwise specified, the pup was to be pet quality. That’s what we were looking for but if someone wanted a show quality dog, she may have a different process. While we were waiting, Erica was very nice about answering questions and sending pics. She did pick our pup for us. We didn’t even see the other ones.

I told Erica that we wanted a dog that would be comfortable in NYC and around a lot of kids. While Noodle hasn’t met our kids yet. (They’re with the grandparents until Friday.), he seems to fit the bill. The vet, our dog walker (more like dog carrier at this age), our nanny, and the pet supply store owner have all commented on his great temperament. The vet also said that while it was too soon to rule out any knee problems in the future, so far his knees feel great.

Some examples are:
He has been carried for 5-10 mile walks around the city with no issue.
He happily took treats from someone in a wheelchair who had some hand tremors.
He loves the feeling the wind at the end of the pier. He doesn’t enjoy walking past the skateboard park to get there but he just looks at the skateboarders suspiciously.
He enjoyed being held by the boot camp instructor and watch the humans moan and groan through their exercises. This was tiring… for HIM. He fell asleep in the middle of the pull ups drill. I was jealous.
He is not fazed by sirens and enjoys watching construction.
He seems to really enjoy when people play salsa or bachata from their cars.
He likes getting hugs from a little girl in building.
He lies quiet in sidewalk cafes while we eat.

Housetraining is going well so far. He has only had three accidents and he sleeps through the night in the crate. At the moment, since I'm on the computer with my back to him, he is chilling in the ex pen, though he struggles with doing this if we are walking around.

I know this was long but I though it might help people who are considering Eriand.

We are very happy.

Thank you. I'm on Long Island too, and searching for reputable breeders. I appreciate the information. Did you see any documentation on health testing for her dogs?

 

[lily cd re]

I can add here since my mom's mpoo is an Eriand dog. I know she doesn't show all of the pedigree and testing on her website, but if you ask I am sure she will get the information for you to review.

My mom's dog (who I co own) has been super healthy and has a really nice temperament. He is a great companion for her.

 

[Getting ready]

I saw the health test info for the parents and grandparents of my boy on the OFA website so I didn’t ask for it.

 

[lciano]

I saw the health test info for the parents and grandparents of my boy on the OFA website so I didn’t ask for it.

I'd love to see it. Did you search with their names, or by Eriand?