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Discussion Starter #1
I thought this might be helpful to anyone considering a pup from Eriand. I went with Eriand because a few people here recommended them, as did a few other breeders I contacted. The process was different in some ways than the other breeders I contacted so I had some doubts along the way. Spoiler alert. Noodle has been home for one week and he is awesome.

Unlike some breeders, Eriand didn’t ask me to fill out an application or want to meet us before accepting a deposit. She did not ask for references or to talk to our vet. Erica and I had a phone conversation and that was it. I liked her because she was more flexible than some other about what litter we wanted. I contacted Erica when I knew we would be wanting a puppy but I wasn’t sure when. I explained our situation (we had two older dogs that we knew we would have to say goodbye to in the near future but weren’t exactly sure when yet.). She was willing to take a deposit and move it to the next litter if we were not ready. Some other breeders were not.

I did have to send her the deposit on blind faith. There was no contract and I worried a little about what would happen if we decided not to go with an Eriand puppy. That much said, she never deposited my initial check and we did go with Eriand so it all worked out.

I asked for the contract a week or so before pick up day. Now I am a lawyer and it didn’t appear to me that the contract was prepared by a lawyer since, in my opinion, it was missing some elements. However, I pick apart legal docs all day long and didn’t feel like doing it here. The spirit of it was one I could get behind.

I will note that the contract did indicate that, unless otherwise specified, the pup was to be pet quality. That’s what we were looking for but if someone wanted a show quality dog, she may have a different process. While we were waiting, Erica was very nice about answering questions and sending pics. She did pick our pup for us. We didn’t even see the other ones.

I told Erica that we wanted a dog that would be comfortable in NYC and around a lot of kids. While Noodle hasn’t met our kids yet. (They’re with the grandparents until Friday.), he seems to fit the bill. The vet, our dog walker (more like dog carrier at this age), our nanny, and the pet supply store owner have all commented on his great temperament. The vet also said that while it was too soon to rule out any knee problems in the future, so far his knees feel great.

Some examples are:
He has been carried for 5-10 mile walks around the city with no issue.
He happily took treats from someone in a wheelchair who had some hand tremors.
He loves the feeling the wind at the end of the pier. He doesn’t enjoy walking past the skateboard park to get there but he just looks at the skateboarders suspiciously.
He enjoyed being held by the boot camp instructor and watch the humans moan and groan through their exercises. This was tiring… for HIM. He fell asleep in the middle of the pull ups drill. I was jealous.
He is not fazed by sirens and enjoys watching construction.
He seems to really enjoy when people play salsa or bachata from their cars.
He likes getting hugs from a little girl in building.
He lies quiet in sidewalk cafes while we eat.

Housetraining is going well so far. He has only had three accidents and he sleeps through the night in the crate. At the moment, since I'm on the computer with my back to him, he is chilling in the ex pen, though he struggles with doing this if we are walking around.

I know this was long but I though it might help people who are considering Eriand.

We are very happy.
 

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Contracts from breeders vary wildly! I would actually say that all of the contracts for our pups were pretty minimalist. Our deposits also varied from $500 on Lily to nothing on Peeves with Javelin in between at $100. Peeves is the second dog from the same breeder since the dog BF had when we met was from them. Lily's breeder was a hobby breeder and Javelin's breeder is a serious breeder who does lots of showing.


I am one of the people who recommended Eriand since my mom's mpoo was bred by Erica's mother. I would say our experience in getting her pup was roughly parallel although we did make a meet puppies visit before gotcha day. Most of the arrangements were made through phone conversations with Ilene. I do think it is useful for people looking for puppies to understand that breeders are as diverse as people as puppy buyers are and that experiences will vary as well.
 

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Fantastic progress and process! And you are doing an amazing job at socializing him. Keep exposing him to skateboarders, he will soon be unfazed.
 

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"I hope everyone will look at the other poodle breeder thread about this same breeder. Red flag."

I looked through a lot of that thread but didn't see anything about Eriand. It is a long thread so I might have missed it. I hope I didn't miss any major red flags with them but I'm new to this so might have. But it did occur to that I should have mentioned that the parents of my pup were on the OFA database.
 

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I hope everyone will look at the other poodle breeder thread about this same breeder. Red flag.

https://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/33522-buying-puppy-safely-basics.html
I see absolutely no mention of this breeder in the thread you linked to kontiki. I have been to this breeder's (her mom's) home more than once. There are no red flags online or in person. I would not have allowed my mom to buy a puppy from Erica's mother if I saw anything I didn't like.

In looking at all ten pages of that thread that is linked to I see actually very few references to specific breeders by name other than once or twice.
 

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I put a link to a thread on information on how TO choose a puppy and excellent breeder.

There are apparently two breeding threads at this time on Poodle Forum.

In looking at Eriands site I see very little that is recommended in the information on how to choose well. Perhaps they have another site where the information is available?

I am glad though that people have had good luck with them.
 

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I think one thing we've seen over and over is different breeders put varying amounts of information on their websites. Eriand states all testing is done; shows their Poodles, includes many who are titled on the site, and to me, generally makes it clear their dogs are raised with love and tons of human interaction. Those are all signs of a great breeder.

OFA has a good number of Eriand Miniature Poodles, another excellent sign.

This is a breeder I'd jump at the chance to get to know and hopefully rate highly enough to get a puppy from her, if Miniatures were my variety :). It's hard to tell if she supports newbies showing Mpoos; that seems like something one would need to talk about with her, and get a realistic opinion - very sensible with an uber coated breed. Guessing she is approachable. (I'm not looking for a Poodle right now, just look at a lot of breeders' sites.)
 

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What a breeder web site looks like and what the breeder does that is hitting the check list (or not) are two entirely different things. I've looked at lots of breeder sites that look great, pretty with nice graphics and animations and such but tons of red flags like links to specific available puppies where you can make a PayPal payment without any personal contact with the breeder, knowledge about parents and just info on how your pup will be shipped. Or worse poodles mixed in with doodles of all types.


On the other hand I think it is entirely possible a really great breeder might have a so so or even yucky looking website that may even seem to be out of date. Some breeders who may be great may just not be too tech savvy or have a good design eye and not want to pay someone to set up and maintain a pretty website. A good breeder should be deeply involved with their dogs and pups and may therefore not be loaded with time for maintaining a website. They are probably making more contacts with prospective puppy buyers by personal references than through cold views online. This was the case with Javelin's breeder who was suggested to me by a friend. Her website is not loaded with info about puppies, but once I made contact with her she was very responsive to email and phone calls. My mother would probably have much the same to say about her Eriand experience.
 

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I must have missed something. I do not see any links to either Miniature or Standard Poodles and OFA connections on their site. Do I perhaps have the incorrect site?

kontiki did you read my post from yesterday about websites? Lack of information on a website may just mean a not tech heavy/savvy breeder, not a guarantee of a bad breeder. If you think the breeder is worth checking out further then you should do that. The personal contact is often much more informative than a website. If seen some great looking websites with yucky people behind them once I spoke to them in person.


Why do you seem to have such a negative view of this breeder? I know what they are like since I co own one of their mpoos (with my mom) and know others who do as well. A trainer friend of mine has worked with a number of Eriand dogs over the years and has found all of them to be healthy with lovely temperaments and Kas Hosaka has shown a number of Eriand dogs to titles. Plus there are the OP here and I believe other PF members who have or are getting Eriand pups. I think personal experiences with people (not websites) matter more.
 

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I look at every breeder as a maybe breeder for potential Service Dogs. When I see no indication that their dogs would qualify, I look elsewhere.

Perhaps I am over selective. I will certainly admit that. I have no interest in just pets. I want to know COI, heritage, health background, etc, etc.
 

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I look at every breeder as a maybe breeder for potential Service Dogs. When I see no indication that their dogs would qualify, I look elsewhere.

Perhaps I am over selective. I will certainly admit that. I have no interest in just pets. I want to know COI, heritage, health background, etc, etc.
Kontiki, the information you want to know is important and the breeder should provide it and meet your satisfaction before purchasing a puppy.

It’s unrealistic to expect that information to be complete and easily accessible on their website. A professional website with that information and kept updated is expensive to buy or requires skills that most people don’t have.

It’s wise to avoid a breeder if this information cannot be provided to you before putting a deposit down but they can give this information on the phone or in an email.
 

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Skylar, Yes I agree that all the information should be provided, just like Kontiki requires but its not necessarily on the website. Anyone can put something on a website so to be general info is fine but when purchasing I want to see. I'm thinking everyone is in agreement what they want its just not always on a website. I once saw a great website for boxers everything looked and said all the inporants things but it was out of state and my niece went to look for me. It was an old junky place with dogs kennels everywhere, lots n lots of dogs.
 

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I second this Catherine. I have looked at more dog breeder websites than a sane person would admit ( I have also made a few for breeder friends). I have found the very best breeders to have little info - their titled dogs maybe a bit about health and diet recommendations and that's it. It has gone so far that a sparse site is what I expect - if it is overloaded with info that is clearly lifted from other sites and not personal that is a red flag in itself for me. Please keep in mind that breeders of excellence are very aware and tired of their info being lifted off their sites and used by puppy mills. Pictures, names, titles and all wind up elsewhere so they tend to be super cautious of what they put out there.
 

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I second this Catherine. I have looked at more dog breeder websites than a sane person would admit ( I have also made a few for breeder friends). I have found the very best breeders to have little info - their titled dogs maybe a bit about health and diet recommendations and that's it. It has gone so far that a sparse site is what I expect - if it is overloaded with info that is clearly lifted from other sites and not personal that is a red flag in itself for me. Please keep in mind that breeders of excellence are very aware and tired of their info being lifted off their sites and used by puppy mills. Pictures, names, titles and all wind up elsewhere so they tend to be super cautious of what they put out there.
Moni, my dear, you are not alone :) :) :). Over many, many years, I've been a visitor to hundreds of sites, both for personal research, and to support users in other pet forums. You are spot on.
 

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Websites can give an indication but can also be big time spam. Reputable breeders often don't have time to maintain a website so they generalize but do have the actual paperwork that can be proof . I go by that. I have a friend that saw a beautiful put together web site that said all the right things (I think they copied someone else). Well this person had a friend who lived not far so one Sunday afternoon took a ride. There was a fairly nice place and they drove up. Some dogs out front but they found out thru a neighbor that in the bak were kept kennels out of sight) and that was their breeding stock. So you have to take care to see proof and not be fooled by websites.
 

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I totally agree that calling the breeder and asking the right questions is more important than what's on their website. My younger poodle Sachii's mother and my older poodle's father Bella were both shown to championship by Kaz Hosaka, and she has the photos to prove it and verifiable at infodog.com. Both of mine come from a long line of champions. Their sires and dams were also cleared of genetic diseases, but that's not even on my breeder's website.

About breeder websites. My breeder's site is overall not particularly impressive since she's not a high tech person and gets most of her referrals word of mouth. Like one of Catherine's breeders Eriand, mine is also a hobby breeder; she has only a few litters each year and they live comfortably in her home, and she hasn't needed a fancy site or the big ads in Poodle Variety to promote her lovely poodles.

And I've seen some really well done sites by breeders and talked to more than I can remember in my search for Bella. They talk the talk but their poodles don't look that great, nor have been DNA tested, or live in barn, and you might as well sign in blood on their extensive, sometimes ridiculous contract demands, such as:

  • buyer will use a specific vet of the breeders choice for first exam, or
  • will only feed xyz diet, such as raw or a particular brand only, or
  • will get/not get xyz vaccines, i.e., raise dog "holistically", or
  • agrees to send photos every year, or
  • if buyer can no longer care for the dog or dies it will be returned to breeder (rather than a responsible family or friend member).
Going with your gut is valid for not getting too worried about a reasonable or thin contract, but only if you've done your homework on the right questions and seen proof of what any breeder is promoting, particularly the DNA testing for genetic conditions.
 

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It’s wise to avoid a breeder if this information cannot be provided to you before putting a deposit down but they can give this information on the phone or in an email.
Actually information by phone or email can be a complete scam.

Be sure any info health histories, lineage, etc is written and able to be verified from the correct sources.
 
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