I am sorry things ended up being so overwhelming when you were just trying to have a normal evening in an abnormal time. I would work on using her crate to advantage. I strongly recommend a darkening cover for her crate so she can see much of the activities at least in the short term. I think this would also be a situation where a behaviorist who can come to your home and see this kind of scenario would be a good idea. For now though take a good deep cleansing breath or two. Peace for you all.

 

Hugs, even though I did everything right with taking my dogs to loads of different places and meeting loads of people, pandemic isolation undid my dogs confidence.
Do you know what, going back to baby steps in exposure gave them confidence again.
Figure every pet owner is in your shoes too

 

I had a dog trainer remind me that everyone—people or other dogs-entering your space are entering your pack! It’s like I already knew that—but when she said that it put things in perspective. Some dogs are friendly but shy and others are bold and in your face. I have one of each! The trainer did help me know how to read body language so I know when my dogs have had enough and need a break. It’s hard with kids visiting your space. One of my poodles loves hyper kids snd the other one is a bit scared!

 

Yeah, you're not alone. Friends & family my age are starting to have kids and Basil (SPOO, 1-3/4 years old) is a collision hazard because the kids aren't big or tall enough yet.. Basil is a 40 pound (18 kg) sack of rice on 4 legs. She loves toddlers.

I've tried tethering her to me the entire time (no fun for me). When we're at my parents and guests come over, I've found it's best is to keep her in a bedroom with the door closed. She barks, but eventually it stops. (I live in a studio a few miles away.)

Another option, if it's available, is to drop Oona off with a family/friend to have them watch her for the night. This might take some effort on your end. Bonus points if they have a dog so it's like a sleep-over playdate. Then give the human $ or a a "thank you" baked gift like something boujee from the local French bakery depending on your relationship.

You're a wonderful furmom.

 

Thanks all, very much. You're the best.

Another option, if it's available, is to drop Oona off with a family/friend to have them watch her for the night. This might take some effort on your end. Bonus points if they have a dog so it's like a sleep-over playdate. Then give the human $ or a a "thank you" baked gift like something boujee from the local French bakery depending on your relationship.

@Basil_the_Spoo , we don't have anyone presently who I could ask to do this, but maybe we will one day. I am making more dog/dog friendly friends in the area. And come to think of it, with proper planning we might be able to drop her off to play with with the dog walker and her dog for a few hours.

I can relate to the spousal tension. My husband tolerates the dog, but that's about it. He can see how much joy she brings me, but doesn't like the mess or the woofing or the way she wants to play when we are watching TV or how we have to plan our lives around her bladder. I think this is why I put in so much energy training her and why we started doing agility. Hang in there.

Thank you @Sroodle8. That was the worst: the not feeling like a team. I know dog stuff is my "thing", though he likes her more than tolerates her - they've even been bonding lately more and playing - but when there's a problem, it's my problem, and feels like my fault/failure.

Oh, I bet that was stressful and zero fun. I am so sorry. I hope you hire a trainer soon.

@Click-N-Treat yes. I described it as punishing - it's going to take a lot of work for me to want to try that again. We have several private sessions left with a trainer we worked with in the summer to address arousal around kids issue, so will resume those. I've already contacted her.

My first thought was that the friends should have hired a babysitter.

@MaizieFrosty in the future I think we will do just that (but their child might be 4-5 by the time I'm brave enough to have them over again 😂). We invited them over last minute yesterday morning and told them it should be ok with Oona and that we'd crate her if she couldn't handle it (which is what we did). I didn't anticipate how stressed she would be, even in the crate, with the toddler in the house. I am going to do more active crate acclimation and work on getting her used to a cover, plus practice having her chill her in my office or bedroom.

I can imagine it was very stressful trying to manage your stress with Oona and with your husband. How old is Oona now?

Oona is almost 19 months, so possibly in a similar spot as Misha was. I'm glad to hear Misha calmed down around dogs. Oona has always been aroused and chase-y around kids. I hope that with work + time, she chills out. Luckily there is a lot we can work on even when we don't have controlled access to small kids to desensitize her to, which is hard to do until it warms up a bit

 

I can relate to the spousal tension. My husband tolerates the dog, but that's about it. He can see how much joy she brings me, but doesn't like the mess or the woofing or the way she wants to play when we are watching TV or how we have to plan our lives around her bladder. I think this is why I put in so much energy training her and why we started doing agility. Hang in there.

 

I can

I can relate to the spousal tension. My husband tolerates the dog, but that's about it. He can see how much joy she brings me, but doesn't like the mess or the woofing or the way she wants to play when we are watching TV or how we have to plan our lives around her bladder. I think this is why I put in so much energy training her and why we started doing agility.

I can relate to all of this.

 

Oh, I bet that was stressful and zero fun. I am so sorry. I hope you hire a trainer soon.

 

So sorry, and I can relate to this situation! My first thought was that the friends should have hired a babysitter. In the olden days, when I grew up, kids stayed home while adults enjoyed socializing. Dogs didn't have to deal with the stress or the excitement of a baby/small kid.

 

When Meisha was 2 and my grandniece was 5, they were not a good mix. Meisha was excited to see adults and wary of this tiny person who would not stop moving. Meisha would sniff, tiny person would scream (like only a 5 year old girl can) and Meisha would jump on me for comfort and look even scarier to tiny person.

Fast forward a year and now 6 year old niece is pulling Meisha around by the harness, throwing the ball for her, lecturing her on good manners and "fixing" her hair. They only saw each other once in between.

Training is important but things can also just calm down naturally, depending on dog and little human.

Good luck! And tell your husband he is a poopy head. (Well no, but think it if it helps).

 

I can imagine it was very stressful trying to manage your stress with Oona and with your husband. How old is Oona now?

I will give a comparison that isn't with kids, but makes me think of a similar issue that Misha grew out of.

When Misha was younger (<2 yrs) he always had to be tethered if he was at human social events where people brought their dogs. He was just too interested in the dogs. In a friendly way, but it was too much. Sniffing, licking, playing, just all around bugging adult dogs. He acted like that even though he got to play off leash with lots of dogs nearly every single day. Now that he is a mature adult he still sometimes acts that way when somebody brings a new dog. And if he does, I tether him. But usually when he meets the dog for the second time he's totally normal and doesn't bug them at all. And these days he doesn't even get to play with other dogs off leash so much. Kids, on the other hand, have never really been an issue for him because he's just inherently not as interested in them. But if he was I would deal with it the same way.

So what's going through my mind is she's young, and this is her first encounter with a toddler and it's double exciting because it's in her home. It's just too much for her and she'll need to be managed/separated and desensitized until the excitement wears off. And it will!

I think tethering her or crating her is good, but it also means that you have to focus on management rather than enjoying yourself.

Encountering young kids at a distance and slowly working her up being around them will allow her to get used to them without being over threshold. It probably won't take that long, especially if you work with a good trainer.

Perhaps you can temporarily meet friends at a local park (or elsewhere) while Oona stays home so that you're not stressed by managing her. And you can separately work on desensitizing Oona to children so that you'll soon be able to have successful gatherings in your own home. Eventually you might bring Oona to meet this toddler at a park rather than at your home, and she likely won't be as excited as she was at home. New things in the home are always double exciting. Age will also help a great deal. You'll be amazed at the well behaved dog you have by the time she's three!

 

Pre-COVID puppy Normie thought kids were the greatest. Now he's scared of them.

I do have a suggestion. Next time, let your husband do the hosting and keep your focus on Oona.
That's your only job.

If she's calm enough, sit and talk while a leashed Oona sits with you. If not, take her away when she's too much. Stay with her and calm her down and then you both come back. Repeat...

We had to do this with Normie when our daughter started visiting again. It took time, but now after 15-30 minutes on the leash, he can be turned loose.

You are not alone. It's a tough slog.

 

That sounds terribly stressful. It’s so much more stressful when your partner is adding to the stress instead of helping to diffuse. I’m sorry. Next time it’ll have to be better, right?

I think it’s a good life skill for a dog to be able to be shut in another room, and not necessarily in a crate. When we had 4 dogs and parties for the kids or even just people over, I would put the dogs in a bedroom, at least for the beginning of the party/visit, and sometimes for the whole time. It’s so handy when we have a repairman come into the house to be able to usher a dog into a room and not worry about them. Of course the last couple years we have been mostly isolating, but I started training Phoebe to be alone in a room a couple months ago, and she can go about 15 minutes now without worrying. I use both my room, which has her open crate in it, and my office room for this training. The next time we visit my parents or in-laws, I will pop her into one of their rooms so she can have the same training in a different space. Of course she makes herself comfortable on the bed instead of in her crate. (Oona isn’t allowed on beds right? At a former house, I used the laundry room because it was huge.) I use a fan and radio or tv turned on fairly loud to muffle outside noises. This skill has come in very handy over the years, with my best example is we had an emergency several years ago at 2am, and EMTs in and out (front door wide open) for over an hour - the dogs were quickly ushered into a bedroom and we didn’t hear them the whole time. I could focus on the emergency and have one less thing at the front of my mind.

 

That sounds terribly stressful. It’s so much more stressful when your partner is adding to the stress instead of helping to diffuse. I’m sorry. Next time it’ll have to be better, right?

I think it’s a good life skill for a dog to be able to be shut in another room, and not necessarily in a crate. When we had 4 dogs and parties for the kids or even just people over, I would put the dogs in a bedroom, at least for the beginning of the party/visit, and sometimes for the whole time. It’s so handy when we have a repairman come into the house to be able to usher a dog into a room and not worry about them. .... Of course she makes herself comfortable on the bed instead of in her crate. (Oona isn’t allowed on beds right? )

It better be better next time! Oona doesn't sleep in the bed with us, but she is allowed on the bed if the door is open when I'm working in the office next door. And I nap with her on the bed sometimes. So our room is an option and she would for sure make herself comfortable (if she can relax). In my office she lays on the futon or on the floor. She actually did great when we had a contractor doing some renovations for most of a week in December and then when our furnace broke she was ok with that too. We'd have her in the crate when they first came in, then I'd bring her out on a leash, and if he was ok with it she would go for a sniff and greet. Then I would bring her to my office where I'd be working anyway.

 

We have a similar situation with Buck and family visitors. I married into a family of never had dogs and my son did too. Their visits have been tense, because I don’t want any tears from my little grandsons or any injuries. I remember a holiday meal when Buck was around 1 1/2 with the in-laws. I specifically told my SIL to opt for slacks, just in case Buck jumped and accidentally scratched her. My MIL was frail, in her 80’s, and couldn’t risk being toppled. I managed him in the crate with a good chew. SIL showed up in a leather mini and got goosed under the table when DH, released him from his “prison” crate while we were seated for dessert. I manage “my” dog from then forward. Crate is great, but so is alternating dog sitting away from the excitement. Not optimal, but works for us. Buck is with us everyday, and their visits aren’t frequent. I can relate...

 

Oh and the crate cover is essential here lately - probably 3 weeks now? Something about adolescents and being left out… if I want to maintain my sanity while cooking dinner, the pen is covered. The demand barking goes straight through me and sets me on edge in an instant. Covered so she can’t see the freedom that the cat has (the audacity!), she relaxes like always!
My super fancy cover:

 

Sympathies, @Oonapup !! I was wall to wall Ukraine this weekend myself. If you're a Twitter user (or even not, he's worth a peek), RadioFreeTom (Tom Nichols), is a great follow. He's in the process of retiring from his professorship at the Naval War College, and knows a lot about Russia and the Cold War.

His posts are fascinating, and he talks about many things, including his tastes in music, and ummm, a while back managed to go worldwide over his then-dislike of Indian food. Preet Bahara, God love him, has since helped the professor with a fresh introduction to Indian food, which they tweeted live and turned into a massive fundraiser. Highly entertaining, albeit not an account that often gets involved with people at a less than professorial level, but he has a sense of humor. A great one to sit back and read, to laugh with, and to learn. He'd probably reassure you a bit if you read the last few days' posts. He admits when he's wrong, like he didn't think Russia would invade Ukraine, but he's still an expert and multi-published author. Not a locked account, so no need to join Twitter to read him.

If interested in a hard reality view by another expert there, who did see this coming years ago, contact me privately. It's a locked account people pay to follow, and intended as something along the lines of a graduate seminar.

At any rate, fwiw, @MaizieFrosty 's post harkens back to my childhood as well 😊. In fact, guess how I met my first Poodle? A babysitter who stayed with us when our parents went out of town. That little apricot Poodle was just about Oliver's size, too. And decades later, sometimes I wonder if my sweet guy mightn't be here on his second time around 💞.

Anyway, just trying to share a bit and help you feel better. I've grown fond of you and your Oona girl through PF. Hugs; I feel this will work out when you find a great positive trainer or behaviorist. The latter would be my choice - years ago a great one helped me with a big problem and changed my outlook on the issue, too.

Long post, hope I haven't offended you or anyone, as I seemed to in another long response the other day.

 

I don't know if this is even a good idea, let alone practical, but if you all live close enough, is there any chance that you with Oona and mum (?) with toddler could meet at a neutral location for a couple of short visits, or at each other's homes, walks around neighborhoods. that sort of thing?

Often advised is short duration exposure to take the pressure off all involved. Young children's movements and vocalizations are very unpredictable and startling until they become familiar.

The weather here is just starting to consider spring and we'll be heading to our local park with playground to refamiliarize our boys.

 

Oonapup, I'm so sorry that you had to experience this cascade of discomfort, when all you wanted was a pleasant evening with friends. The evening must have seemed to stretch on forever, with no relief or rescue in sight.

I'm not going to share my "been there" experiences, but believe me, I and most poodle parents, have at one time or another.

So, hugs. This, too, shall pass -- with growth and learning (for all of you) and good professional help.

I do have to say, your description of Oona's meltdown was perfect! "she barked, yelped, whined, panted, growlmoanyodeled and lunged both on leash and in her crate." High fives for inventing the perfect term, "growlmoanyodeled" for that cacophony of noise that somehow comes out of a stressed poodle.

Again, hugs, and a smile.

Be gentle with yourself.

 

.

 

This is all so familiar - sigh!

 

Well I didn't really read the advise posts you already have gotten but I can say it gets manageable. My 4 year old standard was highly excitable as a pup and as he didn't have contact with children it did send him over the edge. I keep in contained to one part of the house when we have guests over. He at first is interested but after they go by several times he now could care less and just goes nd lies down. Recently we had company with small children 3 of them all running about. I kept him contained. The littlest one at 4 said to me I like yr dog behind the fence. I said oh did you see him. He immediately said oh I didn't open the gate but he sat and licked my hand. And I have my rescue adolescent standard and my terrier who were barks and wild. I had him leashed to me but he just couldn't settle, so I just let him be. He has a easy personality so I knew he wasn't a biter dog, anyway he went up to everyone sniffed and then he walked around a bit and went and laid down. I didn't even know he was loose in the house. I was amazed, all it took was telling people to just ignore him and say go lay down. The terrier calmed down too after people were here about 20 minutes. So there is light and you could just put Oona up in one area . If she calms down you can try letting her be free. Seems once they realize all these people aren't a threat to the house and aren't really interested in their antics they give up and go lay down. I'm sure it will work out. Right now we just put my husband on palliative care so I have people coming and going up the wazoo, we are still in the process of learning its ok for all these people coming and going in our normally very quiet household. It will get better.

 

Sorry to hear this.
Nil Desperandum!!
Oona is 19 months ? About the same as our Poppy.
So this 'problem' can be sorted.
And to be fair I would say it's NOT A PROBLEM !!!
This issue is perfectly natural, part of her development.
Of cousre there is the lack of socialisation factor due to the pandemic, but even so it's not entirely out of the ordinary.

I have a slight issue at the moment, Poppy's 'minder' Banzai the Malinois, well his owners are great friends Poppy is fine with them and has spent a couple of hours across the road with them on her own.
We could have used that option recently, but they have family staying whilst a house is having major building work.
This includes a toddler grandchild.
So I'm rather nervous to put Poppyt 'unattended' with the toddler, who happily barges past Banzai and has not concerns about a big dog.

I think it's the toddler thing that is tricky, for dogs who have no real experience of human puppies.
Even a dog 'born' into a family can struggle with the toddler stage.
Meeting older kids who can perhaps give treats for doing 'tricks' is a more gentle introduction?

I do believe too that you are magnifying this issue through the lens of what's going on with world issues.

 

I can empathize with your situation. Decades ago I had a cockapoo who was very reactive to small children – and not in a good way. It was all very stressful and limited who we could have to the house comfortably. It looks like your problem stems from excitement, not aggression. That’s good. I don’t want to oversimplify things, but the answer lays with managed exposure. Small kids give off high level and unpredictable energy. They also make extremely appealing playmates to a young SPOO. As I’ve said before, Happy has been exposed to young children since day one, so she is both familiar and comfortable with them. I know you said this is not currently an option for you, but as the weather improves, try to find some well-behaved kids for Oona to be around. Visiting parents also need to be aware your dog lives there as part of your family and they need to monitor and control their kids. Poodles and kids can, and do, mix well. Good luck...

 

I think both the pandemic and also modern life has put unreasonable expectations on parents. For context, when I was a preschooler my parents never took me to any social event with non-family. I stayed home with a babysitter. Every other parent of their generation did the same thing. Therefore, in the 1950's-1970's your situation wouldn't have occurred, because the toddler would have been home in bed instead of crawling around under foot at a dinner party. Yes, I did go to family gatherings along with cousins. Again, the rules were different. We knew some family dogs were not safe. My grandfather's show dogs were absolutely off limits to the kids, as was my aunt's hunting dog. The dogs got locked away, or the kid got put behind a baby gate. Collective family wrath descended on anyone who let the kids mix it up with the dogs. It was part of respecting the host.

I think you are doing the right thing to work on getting Oona better socialized. I also think you are right, that this gathering had a whole lot of emotional weight unrelated to Oona herself.

Your husband wants your guests to have a perfect experience. However, you aren't running a restaurant or a B&B. You are a wife, not an employee. You are homeowner and hostess, not cook and bar staff. Your dog gives you emotional comfort, and you are entitled to that comfort. As I said, I think in previous generations there was a bit more understanding that kids don't necessarily belong at a dinner party. A host wasn't expected to kid-proof the house. This was part of respecting the host.

 

A couple of clarification points, one about the dog and one about the evening's expectations/my spouse.

Oona is generally a little nervous about strangers and takes time to warm up, though it's possible she is less intimidated by kids because of their size. On the other hand, she is definitely not familiar with them and a little stressed by them, and how they move, act, and sound. In the time we've spent with this baby, other older kid friends, and at the park before we knew better, she has barked, lunged and done distance increasing behaviors like nipping as they walk away, but she has also taken treats, gotten paid for laid on her mat, and done behaviors/tricks for them. She better when kids are not moving too much. It's true that her behavior the other night was mainly excitement, BUT there is a tinge of discomfort/anxiety about unfamiliarity as well as chase/ predatory-ness that makes me nervous. Especially with a young, not very balanced baby who is less than 2 feet tall! If she had not been leashed and held back, she totally would have knocked him over, and then when he cried she likely would have started barking and play lunging (I can't think of whether there is another name for this, it's not just a lunge, but the teasing approach and retreat sometimes with bowing or nipping or barking), or she might have grabbed clothes and tugged.

As for my husband, it was not so much him expecting me to be the perfect hostess/wife, as frustration that the dog (MY dog) was interfering with our first attempt to be normal with friends we used to see a lot before the pandemic. He does 90% of the cooking in our household (including this meal). We have always enjoyed socializing with our friends' kids and babies (we have a 10 year old ourselves who has always been welcomed by these friends and others). We invited our friends over knowing they would be bringing their toddler - it was a last minute invite and we thought based on recent experience that Oona could tolerate it. The fact is that we have a dog now, one more thing that complicates a re-entry to "normalcy". We will just have to adjust based on Oona now, too.

 

Ya know, reading cowpony's most recent post tickled a lot of memories for me. I my parents wanted to go do something social at another home or to go to a movie, we stayed with a baby sitter and if my parents were the hosts we were expected to maintain routines for ourselves once old enough (or were already in bed by the time things got going. If we were old enough to have a nice family dinner at a restaurant we were expected to sit at our table politely and to engage the occasion. I can't tell you how many family celebrations with my nieces and younger cousins were less than fun because of the children. My older niece was super easy and you could expect to have a cocktail, appetizer and coffee plus dessert courses at leisure, but her younger sister and one cousin just never could stay in their seats. Their mothers had to bring baggage with books, crayons... to keep them quiet. One cousin must have gotten up at least ten times to follow our server around (thankfully it was the end of lunch and she had no other tables to attend to). There are a lot of things to balance and maybe the old days weren't too bad in terms of adults having a part of the world that was free of small people and excited dogs.

 

I think we expect a lot from dogs. I remember getting bitten on the foot (by a poodle!!) when I was a toddler in the 80s, and I don’t think anyone batted an eye.

A (very) short positive visit would probably have been better for Oona, especially given her behaviour with kids thus far. But I understand it can be hard to get less dog savvy folks onboard with incremental socialization and training. And without everyone in agreement and equally committed, pretty normal doggy issues can become much harder to manage. I’m sorry. I’ve been there, for sure.