Poodle Forum banner

HELP NEEDED! DEPRESSED WITH POODLE

3.5K views 16 replies 9 participants last post by  Phaz23  
#1 ·
Hi guys, this is my first post & thankfully I found this forum online.
My pup is abt 6mths old and initially, he's well behaved. But as time passes by, he becomes very naughty (biting people), super picky about foods (definitely not a health issue) & would bark/whine every morning and he would stop by himself normally after 30~45mins then go back to sleep again.

I'm feeding him with kibbles but he really dislikes it. We switch to HCF and he enjoyed it for a while. He can even ignore chicken (facepalm). Then we introduce lactose-free cow milk to him but again, he shows no interest after a while (had to make it warm then only he's willing to drink and lick the bowl). Currently, hand-feeding him kibbles and it's time-consuming as each meal can take up to 1hr...

Any suggestion is welcome.

On the verge of giving up him to someone that can handle him better than me.
 
#2 ·
Hi and Welcome!

What's your pups name, and what variety is he? Others will be by with helpful suggestions but from what I see here, this is nothing that many of us don't go thru, so fwiw, you're not alone.

Each of these issues as described sound fixable, Together, your frustration is understandable.

Is he your first dog? first poodle?

Is the kibble you're feeding him the same as what he was getting from the breeder or have you changed it at all?

I ask that question because I had what I thought was a picky eater on my hands for quite a while but it turned out that he just didn't like any of the several kibbles I'd tried. I landed on a kibble suggested by several members here, and to my great surprise, he ate it happily, and still does a year and more later.

I'm not sure about the milk, lactose free or otherwise.

Biting can be teething, crankiness (needs a nap), or a few other things.

When he starts biting, do you trade out for a good chew toy, something appropriate for him to chew on?

How much sleep a day is he getting? Like a human infant, if they need sleep, they get cranky.

What's his daily schedule or routine for eating and drinking, toileting, training, playing, exercise, napping, and sleeping?

I know this is a lot of questions but it really helps to get a full picture.

This can get better :)
 
#3 ·
Your puppy is teething and an adolescent testing boundaries.
When does he bite?
 
#4 ·
@Rose n Poos

Thanks for the quick reply!

His name is Sky, a toy poodle... very mischievous one... I feed exactly what the breeder recommends.

I feed him twice a day. Milk in the morning when he's awake. 1st meal around 7 am. Milk again in the evening (4ish pm). Dinner at 8 pm. Mile again before he sleeps.

Lights off at 11 pm, he tends to scratch the floor before he sleeps (nesting?). We put him out of the playpen about 2~3 times a day (1~2 hrs each session). Each time he begins to run around aggressively, we would either give him a time-out period or message him on the neck area. Subsequently, we found that he needs to either pee or poop if he's doing that.

He sleeps the most during the daytime, approximately from 7 am all the way to 12 pm. Body maintenance (bathing, brushing of teeth & ears cleaning) takes up close to 2 hrs a day as he refused to cooperate. Mealtime is a nightmare, he won't touch a single kibble unless we hand-feed him.

An only good point to brag about my pup - he can pee and poop by himself on the pee tray in the playpen.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Hello to Sky!

I'm responding a bit randomly to some of your answers. (it's late for me :))

I don't mean to contradict your breeder but milk isn't necessarily good for a dog after they've been weaned. I know you mentioned lactose-free but even at that, milk should be given sparingly.

This is from a medical site:
Can Dogs Drink Milk? | PetMD

This likely isn't anything to do with the issues you mentioned but may be a source of gastrointestinal distress. It just occurred to me that it's possible that's related to his other food issues.

Have you tried different kibbles to see if he likes something better? Is he on a puppy formula kibble?
FWIW, feeding by hand may be inconvenient but can help with bonding.

He should be sleeping and napping in the range of 16-20 hours a day, the bulk at night with naps thru the day. I haven't counted how many total hours you listed.

Can you describe the running around "aggressively"? That sounds like frustration and/or boredom. There's also times when they get the Zoomies, just running around like little crazy things. That's also normal. What's important is to determine whether he's just doing normal Zoomies or if he's bored and frustrated.

My boys both bit at my pants for the first few months. If there's any sort of loose or flowing fabric, the movement elicits that reaction. They can be trained out of it but it's as much just growing out of it.

How much time is he playing daily, how much time do you do training of simple commands or tricks? Poodles need not only physical exercise but because they are so smart, their brains need exercise too. Is it possible to walk him with a harness and leash thru a safe green area where he might dawdle and sniff daily or several times a week?

Here's a sample idea of a schedule for a puppy. Puppy Schedule: Daily Routine for New Puppies (akc.org)

For what reason are you cleaning his ears daily? Bathing only needs to be done usually every 2 weeks, maybe more often if he gets into some messes :).

Brushing is nice but a poodle coat actually needs to be combed out daily or every other day. If you can't get a greyhound style comb cleanly thru his hair from the skin out to the end he may be tangling or even matting. That's not good.

He'll be starting what's called coat change soon enough and mats come on even quicker. To spare everyone pain, literally, most people trim the coat down quite short (it will grow back, I promise :))

He's quite normal, not liking for his head or face to be touched. Have you tried offering a treat while touching his face or head? Help him to connect good things with the things he's not so fond of and he'll be able to relax more about them.

Biting when playing suggests overstimulation. I trained my boys to accept a safe chew toy when they started biting and one still grabs a toy to stuff in his mouth whenever he gets excited.

I hope you're finding some ideas here.
 
#7 ·
Has your puppy had food more delicious than his regular dog food? My Shih Tzu picked at her kibble at that age because my dad decided she could have a nice bbq chicken wing 🤦🏻‍♀️ which resulted in weeks of hand feeding.

A week or two or three of strict feeding helped me retrain her. But it really has to be strict and closely watched. No treats, only food at the specified meal times (morning, noon, night), being wary of low blood sugar in the puppy. Within a few days, she was eating the kibble by herself because she was hungry enough. A few weeks of no treats, and tadaa no picky dog 8 years later.

Or maybe try soaking his kibble in some bone broth (the dog ones, not those from the supermarkets because those have additives).
 
#14 ·
Has your puppy had food more delicious than his regular dog food? My Shih Tzu picked at her kibble at that age because my dad decided she could have a nice bbq chicken wing 🤦🏻‍♀️ which resulted in weeks of hand feeding.

A week or two or three of strict feeding helped me retrain her. But it really has to be strict and closely watched. No treats, only food at the specified meal times (morning, noon, night), being wary of low blood sugar in the puppy. Within a few days, she was eating the kibble by herself because she was hungry enough. A few weeks of no treats, and tadaa no picky dog 8 years later.
My dog also isn't interested in food and is a picky eater too. And Baily_Whiskey's suggestion is precisely what I got from many trainers and online research.

To be honest, I'm not 100% good about sticking with a strict schedule or limiting treats either, and sometimes my dog (Pavie) will skip meals or just eat less than the recommended amount of kibble. But when he was boarded, the trainers just give him the same food everyday at fixed times, and he eats much better then. When he got back from boarding, had quite a good appetite for a while. So I think a good schedule could really help. Now I've set up an alarm on my phone to remind me of his feeding time, and would take the food away if he left it out too long.

Another thing may be exercise. I realized early on that Pavie eats more when he has had more exercise. Back when I free fed him (I don't any more), he would often go to his bowl to eat after playing ball. When Pavie was in a board-and-train, they had the dogs out for long periods during the day, so he got many times more the exercise he would normally get at home. During that time, he was eating twice as much as he usually eats at home. One of the trainers told me, because they work the dogs a lot all day, they often end up eating 1.5~2 times the amount they would normally eat. So you may also want to make sure your dog gets enough exercise.

Last thing about feeding I can think of is that some dogs like fun or attention more than eating. Pavie ate a lot more kibble after I got him a Kong Wobbler, where he had to "play' to get the food out.

We also dealt with naughty behavior when Pavie was a puppy! Like many people mentioned, it could be teething or testing boundaries. Bitter apple spray can be helpful if he is biting the leash or anything inappropriate in the house. Structure and training really helped with us. The CGC is a good guideline for obedience, and you may consider getting a trainer to help with that. I also found trick training to help a lot with our bond, and we seemed to understand and communicate better after going through some trick training. For trick training, I would spend maybe 15 minutes in the morning doing it with him, and it seemed to help him concentrate better the rest of the day.
 
#9 ·
I would suggest NO milk, but Answers Goats Milk is good if you want to research that. Other suggestion is go to a natural dog food store and talk to them. They should also have samples for you to try. If you are feeding a lesser quality of kibble, that could be the problem Natural dog food stores do a lot of research on their products. You did not share the kibble you are feeding. That would help.
 
#10 · (Edited)
@Rose n Poos @Yellow

Am feeding him with Royal Canin Mini Indoor Junior Puppy Dog kibbles. Recently I tried Earthborn Holistic Puppy Vantage but with no luck.

@Bailey_Whiskey
I admit... I gave steam chicken breast after he throw up vile. Well, his appetite for chicken only last for approximately 2weeks +. But no doubts, each time after he came back from vaccine he would not eat. I even tried soaking his kibble with flavor booster topping but with no luck. Canned food should works wonder? But no! =(

I can't tell if he's frustrated or too bored. Just like how you described, just running around like little crazy things - chasing after his toy.

Variety of toys for him:
476676


Total play time around 5 hrs in total per day. I didn't train him with treats so as not to make his meal time a disaster for both of us =( Walking him with leash is impossible at home as his only focus is to bite the leash =(

@For Want of Poodle

Wake up 6 am (70%) if not 3/4 am (30%)
Alone in playpen
Breakfast 830 am
Alone in playpen
Nap 11 am - 1 pm
Playtime 1 - 3 pm
Alone in playpen
Nap 3 - 5 pm
Playtime 5 - 545 pm
Nap 545 - 730 pm
Dinner 745/8 - 9 pm
Playtime 9 - 10/11 pm
Lights off 11pm sharp
 
#13 · (Edited)
Total play time around 5 hrs in total per day. I didn't train him with treats so as not to make his meal time a disaster for both of us =( Walking him with leash is impossible at home as his only focus is to bite the leash =(

@For Want of Poodle

Wake up 6 am (70%) if not 3/4 am (30%)
Alone in playpen
Breakfast 830 am
Alone in playpen
Nap 11 am - 1 pm

Playtime 1 - 3 pm
Alone in playpen
Nap 3 - 5 pm

Playtime 5 - 545 pm
Nap 545 - 730 pm
Dinner 745/8 - 9 pm
Playtime 9 - 10/11 pm

Lights off 11pm sharp
A few things rolling around in my mind from this.

5 hours of playtime may be too much, depending on the play style. Substitute sniffy walks and training time for some of that.

Biting at the leash is pretty common. Are you using a harness or collar?

A couple of thoughts on the biting. Try treats or hand off a chew toy to him to give him something else to do with his mouth. Some members pups even carry toys with them in their mouths on walks. Some members have had success by carrying their pup a short way from home and starting the walk with the return to home. After some success there, expand to walking from home then back.

Remove play time right before bedtime. The hour or so before bedtime works better as a wind down time, rather than wind up.

Is he sleeping in a crate or in the living area where the rest of the household is still awake until 11p? Could he be put to bed earlier if he has a quiet, dark space?

Puppies generally are on three meals a day for at least the first 6m and toys may need three meals longer. Twelve hours between meals is a loooong time for a small, growing poodle. Vomiting bile is often from an empty stomach so it helps to have their food intake spread thru more of their day, with a small snack at bedtime to hold off the morning urps.

Is water always available?

What does he do during the Alone in Playpen times? Is that the naptime? Is he actually napping lol?

What makes training with treats a disaster for mealtime? The treat calories would naturally be counted as part of Sky's daily intake.

Some ideas for training would be learning the AKC Trick Dog tricks. Spend a few minutes several times a day teaching a new skill/trick. Once he's learned one, move to another and close each session with the one he already knows so it's a positive experience.
AKC Trick Dog – American Kennel Club

The AKC Canine Good Citizen list is another trainable set of skills that lean to obedience.
Take the Test – American Kennel Club (akc.org)

The foods look to be higher quality foods and you don't want to encourage picky eating by changing too often, but it may be that you haven't landed on a food that he likes just yet, or, I still wonder about the milk possibly slightly upsetting his gastrointestinal tract.
 
#11 ·
I've found it's better to offer a variety of physical exercise versus straight walking... Like how for humans you can jog from A to B, and/or do 1 hour of yoga for exercise - both will leave you exhausted. What I'm proposing is to add variety into your routine, add a slow sniff-stuff walk. Our poodles have very strong noses. So, allow the same amount of time to get fresh air, but slow your pace down. Like tai-chi slow. Let little Sky smell everything. It will tire him out in a different way.
 
#12 ·
When does he go crazy? I have a feeling he may need more sleep and an earlier bedtime. My adult winds down at about 8-9 pm and gets up between 7-10 am. As a puppy, she started to go nuts in the evening, and I quickly learned that was a sign she needed more sleep. If the dog can't sleep through the night, you can add a quick potty break, but no play, super boring.

Rather than hand feeding, maybe try a food dispensing ball or other toy.

I would also recommend some structured training time. Even 2-3 min a few times a day.

When does he go for walks? Even toy reeds should have daily walks - our Yorkie isn't liveable even at 6 without at least a half hour walk (she usually gets an hour), when she was younger she got about 1-1.5 hrs/day. My mom looked after a 5 lb dog for a few months - she absolutely thrived with the addition of 1-1.5 hrs of walking per day and became a far happier, more confident, and better behaved dog.

Dogs, especially poodles have both the need for mental and physical activity. Mental activity can include food puzzles, walks with lots of opportunities for sniffing, and training. My dog goes kind of nuts without enough mental work to go along with the physical.
 
#15 ·
Make full use of the hand feeding, you could also try using half or 3/4 of his kibble as his training treats. That helped me with Whiskey while he had his health issues but before we realized the kibble was the cause.

It gave him the hand feeding he wanted while we built our bond and it allowed me to feed treats without actually introducing new food (in your case, new delicious tastes). But I still fed the remaining kibble at his dinner time and breakfast, the amount depending on how hard our training was that day. You may need to adjust for your puppy because Whiskey is a spoo and ate like a horse.

Whiskey learnt the very basic tricks like sit, down, heel, paw, and roll over before we went to puppy class using kibbles. Don’t underestimate the value of hand feeding to your dog. Now all Whiskey wants is for me to put the food down so he can gobble it all quickly.

This was also used on my Shih tzu 8 years ago before I even learned about it from the web, instinct I guess.
“Breeders” where we are often don’t share much puppy raising advice after the puppy leaves. I would suggest reading up on google or on PoodleForum. Also regarding finding the right kibble, don’t be embarrassed to ask for kibble samples at the pet shops (PLC, our local big brand store, is especially generous about it for their house brands).

Feel free to pm me for a list of shops where I was successful in getting samples from :)
 
#17 ·
Make full use of the hand feeding, you could also try using half or 3/4 of his kibble as his training treats. That helped me with Whiskey while he had his health issues but before we realized the kibble was the cause.

It gave him the hand feeding he wanted while we built our bond and it allowed me to feed treats without actually introducing new food (in your case, new delicious tastes). But I still fed the remaining kibble at his dinner time and breakfast, the amount depending on how hard our training was that day. You may need to adjust for your puppy because Whiskey is a spoo and ate like a horse.

Whiskey learnt the very basic tricks like sit, down, heel, paw, and roll over before we went to puppy class using kibbles. Don’t underestimate the value of hand feeding to your dog. Now all Whiskey wants is for me to put the food down so he can gobble it all quickly.

This was also used on my Shih tzu 8 years ago before I even learned about it from the web, instinct I guess.
“Breeders” where we are often don’t share much puppy raising advice after the puppy leaves. I would suggest reading up on google or on PoodleForum. Also regarding finding the right kibble, don’t be embarrassed to ask for kibble samples at the pet shops (PLC, our local big brand store, is especially generous about it for their house brands).

Feel free to pm me for a list of shops where I was successful in getting samples from :)
++ to this, my toy (8 months old) gets 90% meals from hand mostly during walks the rest is through playing/training, and drops of food during the day when he’s being calm or whatever good behavior.

My toy also started off very fickle and still isn’t crazy about food. I expanded his diet by pairing new food with food I know he liked and rotating the food I feed him daily so that he’s used to eating different things. For example he eats lamb, rabbit, fish, and beef freeze dried raw or kibble rotated. When I introduce something new, I pair it with his current foods and he takes to it quickly. He eats best while exercising and if I put the food in a bowl, he would eat much less. He really isn’t into bowls and likes “earning” his food.
 
#16 ·
Some more very useful things to train are "Settling" (down in a specific location and relaxing), and "It's Yer Choice" (impulse control, helping your pup learn to think thru choices for the best result).
Another training game is called "Look at That". This is for when your dog is distracted or overstimulated by something or someone in the environment. The simplified goal is to have them return their attention to you.

Some threads and posts on teaching these: