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Considering a Standard Poodle

2.7K views 15 replies 9 participants last post by  24953  
#1 ·
Hello All,

I have been a long time Border Collie fanboy. Recently looking at the temperament of my sibling's Toy poodle, we are swaying a little towards getting a standard poodle instead. So, I thought I should start researching the breed. This forum looks like a good place to start.
Few things I wanted to know.
1> What are the registries for Poodle (eg AKC). If AKC is the only registry, do they primarily focus on show abilities(Like they do for German Shepherds and Border Collies)?
2> What do breeders in a Sire and Dam usually look before they breed them. Is their focus looks, working ability, compliance, sporting capability or something else?
3> Are there any literature that I should go over to understand more and help me make an informed decision.

Thanks in Advance.
 
#2 ·
You will get a lot of replies to these questions.

AKC is a registry that bases its standard on the Parent organization for each breed. For poodles, the breed standards for AKC showing comes from the Poodle Club of America (PCA).

Each breeder can be different. Some show dogs in AKC or UKC, some don't show dogs at all. Some breed for performance sports such as agility or hunting but might also show. If a dog is not a solid color, they can be registered with the AKC but cannot be shown in AKC since the PCA considers multicolored poodles a disqualifier. Multicolored poodles can be registered and shown in UKC.

Most people on this forum would recommend you look for a breeder that does genetic testing:
http://www.vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/TestsforStandardPoodles.pdf

You can search this forum for ideas on what to look for when looking for a breeder for your puppy. One such thread is:
http://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/33522-buying-puppy-safely-basics.html

Good luck in your search.
 
#3 ·
A poodle can be registered in AKC, UKC, both, etc. To register a poodle as a poodle it just has to be a poodle. There aren't criteria to register based on showing or performance sports (sorry if this doesn't get at what you are asking, but I'm not sure about why you are asking that).

A good breeder does health testing and is likely to be involved in dog sports in some way. Either they show in conformation or in a performance sport like agility, obedience, etc. or they do both.

MiniPoo gave you a couple of good links. Most especially I recommend the sticky thread on buying a puppy safely.
 
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#4 ·
Poodles happily do not have the same divide to which you are accustomed, and AKC and UKC in the United States are the registries, with Canadian Kennel Club being the official body for our northern friends and neighbors across the border.

As was stated, there is one Poodle Club of America (PCA), which covers all Poodles here. No competing clubs as you'll find in some breeds, such as your first, that of the Cotons, and that of the Boykin Spaniel, three of which come to mind.

It is the rare (rarified) Poodle fancier who is a member of the national club; most belong to the regional clubs :). As was said, some breed more for dogs who hunt, but you'll find conformation dogs there, too. With Poodles, as our member Tiny Poodles says, conforming to the standard creates a healthy, functional Poodles (hopefully not misquoting her). You can locate the standard at the PCA website.

You should also enjoy the VIP site, based on what you've posted. I'll put links below. If you are comfortable sharing your location, even just your state, members here may be able to point you towards breeders who do all the expected testing and who prove their Poodles through performance and/or conformation.

It can also make a lot of sense to start going to shows and watching, and to chat with breeders and handlers after they are done (ask when you can check back). Check infodog for shows in your neck of the woods, wherever that may be, city, rural, or suburban :).

Home - Poodle Club of America
Versatility In Poodles
InfoDog - The Dog Fancier's Complete Resource for information about AKC Dog Show Events, and Dog Products and Services - Shows By State

ETA, oops, missed that MiniPoo already gave you the VIP site.
 
#5 ·
Welcome to PF! You've gotten some great suggestions and links and I do hope you choose a SPOO. Take a look at the Poodle Rainbow. We got our first Poodle last summer and I had no idea there were blue Poodles! Lots of color options with the breed. You can groom them any way you like from fancy to sporty, the sky's the limit with activities that they excel in with style and no shedding. Best wishes on finding a great puppy!
 
#6 ·
Thank you all. Apologies for I missed many important details. Here they are.
My location: SoCal, USA.
Pet will be a family dog to an active household.

I am least bothered about how the dog looks. I will be concerned about the health issues. Cancer/Epilepsy/Hip Dysplasia in the lines. Its mental disposition towards complying and working with human beings. Its friendliness towards other animals and human beings. Intelligence to clear up a arena. A lot of these are passed on from the parents and hence the question about prevalent breeding practices.
In the case of Border Collies, a lot of AKC breeders "generally" disregard these and breed them to look fluffy and run in a show, whereas ABCA breeders "generally" breed only the healthy and champion herders. This ensures all my concerns are taken care of. AKC in case of Border Collies is a immediate red flag but maybe it does not matter that much in other breeds.
I hope now you can see through me better. I will read everything that you guys posted. Tuned in for more expert comments.
 
#11 ·
Its mental disposition towards complying and working with human beings. Its friendliness towards other animals and human beings. Intelligence to clear up a arena. A lot of these are passed on from the parents and hence the question about prevalent breeding practices.
From one who spent a lot of time at The Poodle Ranch, I've never seen a Poodle that didn't have all of these traits. But beyond that, any breeder will then know which of their pups is calmer or more energetic, more prone to cuddle or more independent. IMO, your above requirements are a given with Poodles... and you can go beyond that to an even narrower selection with confidence.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Well, there are Poodle greeders, as in other breeds, but a good Poodle breeder will have test results posted up at OFFA (ofa.org) and/or have the results to show you if not posted yet, and can provide pedigrees for you to look into. There is the Poodle Health Registry which is a vital tool although I am not expert enough to discuss it, so will let those qualified talk about it.

Now that you're onboard, you might want to consider taking the discussion over to the Poodle Talk forum and use one of the breeder/breeding subforums to both search out helpful info as well as ask questions.

Poodles do have health issues so you're on the right track. They also have some breeding bottlenecks in past decades that can still affect things today, and which some brand new tests from UC Davis are helping scope out. Our respected member Arreau from Canada is quite knowledgeable about this test and its value.

Mary Olund is the Poodle Club of America breeder referral contact for areas West of the Mississippi:
(415) 457-4648
Accepting calls from 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM Pacific time
pcabreederreferralwest@yahoo.com

Mrs. Olund is a wonderful breeder herself, and would be a great person to contact to talk Poodles and Spoo breeders in the SoCal area.

There is a Poodle specialty in January in SoCal, and if you're in a traveling mood, Del Valle weekend is coming up the middle of October in Pleasanton, and there'll likely be a good number of Spoos because that's also the Poodle Club of Central Cali's specialty weekend. Also, Poodle Day is a thing, a big thing, and it's in Carmel every year....it's one of my bucket list items :). You could do worse than attending Poodle Day and meeting a good number of Poodles in very fun surroundings.
 
#9 ·
Are you looking for a laid back poodle or a high energy poodle for agility? Do you presently have border collies? If so, maybe a poodle from a breeder who does sports would be a good fit for you.

It seems to me anyone who has trained border collies should have no problem training a poodle to fit into a family.
 
#10 ·
I had a standard poodle for 13 years. He was the absolute best. So easy to train. Your constant companion. You do not have to train against a natural instinct to herd or dig or howl or whatever. All they want is to be your companion. He was a superb addition to the family. I think you will really enjoy standard poodles.
 
#13 ·
Hello All,

To Answer all your questions. I do not currently have any puppies. I wanted to get BC, so I met a bunch of people, trainers and read a lot of literature on the breed.
I want an active companion, not a laid back one. That's why I would like to get a sports lineage or one with a hunting heritage to ensure mental and physical well being(Thats how it goes in BCs atleast).
Would love to get some contacts from this forum on reputed Breeders in Socal (I would like to visit a breeder a few times before buying)
 
#15 ·
Try going to an agility trial in your area to look at working spoos and talk to the owners about where their dogs are from.
 
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#14 ·
My recommendation would be to meet a few spoos and their handlers. See how you like the adult dog's temperaments. Then pick a breeder and go see the proposed Dam and Sire. For a family dog I would suggest a breeder breeding for retrieving and health rather than shows.
Eric
 
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#16 ·
Also a previous border collie owner, have a miniature and 2 standards. Im not an expert but Il give you what my experience is.
I have found poodles generally easier to train, just as bright to my surprise, and get past adolescence around a year younger than border collies which is great.
Standards i think are the better poodle size within the breed, but that's only my opinion.
Shows are usually agility or form/looks generally (but I'm not in the US).
Big focus on general appearance which you should be able to get AKC standards online for, having health tests done for sire and dam, and parents temperament is looked at, but im not an expert breeder with decades of experience.
This forum isn't a bad place to start to ask questions, there is a cheap online poodle book which is downloadable which i got, just google "all poodle info" (absolutely no affiliation with them whatsoever-just found it generally quite good for a broad knowledge).
Suggest you contact your local poodle club for info, just beware of the odd competitive/money hungry club member/breeder giving you misinformation/holding back on info as I have come across a few over time - but the vast majority of poodle people have been ultra helpful and genuine.
Grooming is a big part of their appearance for shows, collies are a different type of dog altogether when it comes to this, I didn't realise the full extent of it, I just thought ya ya long coat, prone to matting ya ya bit of extra work...
Its hard to get a good groomer that can actually do proper show grooming for poodles, you may have to do this yourself. It's expensive too over time, and of course time consuming. Standards take hours and hours and hours to wash, dry, cut and style properly - every time they get wet or dirty you have to sort it out straight away, to avoid mats or staining - this is much easier to do with a miniature or toy, but still a pain. Staining around the mouth and eyes can be a problem with some of them in the lighter colours and must be tended to daily if you want to show at any time. You can't just leave them in between shows and sort it out later as the coat won't get to a good enough length in between shows if you have to cut it. If you intend to show from puppy, when the puppy coat starts shedding you have to be extra careful, tangles can appear overnight, this goes on until they are about 2. Brushing isn't like with another hairy dog, if you have to leave length on the coat for showing, its far more tedious you can't miss anything, right down to the root. If you aren't going to show, you can keep a short pet clip and they are no worse than most other dogs with any length - its the showing grooming that's hard. Bit less work with black or red or other non light colours.When they say the grooming is extra work it is, even if you use a groomer, its got to be kept on top of every day. They are worth it though, they are stunning groomed.
With breeding/selecting mates/buying a puppy, have to be very careful with the fur to eye/nose colours, with fading and mixing. Can't breed x colour with x colour or the parent colour can be lost (fade later on), or you end up with the wrong eyes/mouth/nose for the hair colour which wont conform to show standards either. Even though its not allowed, some people dye white mismarks on the dogs then show and breed them, hence why so many have mismarks still, generally solid colours and only fading on a couple of colours is show standard. They are ideals, depends how far you want to go with the shows, some of these things are overlooked at times depending on how bad the fault is, and depending on the show.
Agility - i find the miniature a lot more bouncy and abnormally agile, know of toys being good also, standards agile for size, probably best if you want agility to go with a line of agility successful sire/dam where the breeder can advise you along the way.
Poodles are a fairly consistent breed with their trainability and good nature, they're a pretty safe bet, they have a few health issues, just get screened parents/lineage to be safe for the big things, other small things like ear infections is a floppy ear dog thing and is manageable.
Definitely wouldn't recommend having poodles not in a pet household situation, ideally if people are coming and going, not too many long periods fully alone, even though they are affectionate I found collies a bit more independent, less bothered about being left alone and that type of thing.
Hope some of the info may be of use to you.