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Discussion Starter #1
I am in the process of looking into mini breeders for a pet to do pet grooming with and called Amity Kennels and talked to Anne. Well, I got her email and decided to follow up after our conversation.

This is my email.
I'd love to see him but before I waste your time, I can't do over $1000 for a puppy. I have to add shipping as I'm in Texas. I bet he's a beauty and you are the first person I've talked to (talked to lots and lots of people) that offers a lifetime health and TEMPERAMENT guarantee! That's outstanding!


This is her response.
You would never find a puppy with true temperament testing or any of the other testing that I do. I am loosing soooooo much money at $1,400.oo that is is insulting which I am sure you did not mean to do. If you can only afford a small amount than go to your local shelter. Anne
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Personally I don't think $1000 is a SMALL amount of money. I guess people that live like Donald Trump can say that to us pions.
 

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I don't mean to sound judgemental, but I am amazed at the lack of interpersonal skills some people have. I don't know how she meant her words to be recieved, but "where's the love"? I hope a good breeder and a wonderful person in general comes your way with your right and perfect dog!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't need her to skirt around the issue. She can simply say no that doesn't work for me not insult me!
 

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Thats a shame, maybe she was having an off day and took your e-mail the wrong way. Were you asking for a discount on the puppy in question??? It didn't sound to me like you were so why the curt response? I would never respond to a potential buyer like that. I may refer them to another breeder but I think I would my thanks but no thanks a little differently.
Also what struck me about the response is what she said is 100% UNTRUE. You can find a breeder who does health and temperment testing and whatever else you may be looking for that can and do sell puppies for less money than what she is wanting. Her puppies are worth that much TO HER, just like a litter I breed is worth X amount TO ME.

What exactly does the lifetime garentee say anyhow on health/temperment? You cannot garentee a puppy's temperment for a lifetime because you cannot control what happens to that puppy once it leaves your care. I can appreciate what she is trying to accomplish and say good for her but realisticly speaking.... ??
By the way it really doesnt cost anything to do temperment testing.... What constitutes true testing VS untrue testing? The test results show the puppy's reaactions on the day of the test, they are not set in stone.

I did reccently tell a family who owns a dog from me to go to a shelter or perhaps consider an adult from breed rescue for their next dog (I am taking their dog back after Thanksgiving). The suggestion was made gently though... Not in a mean spirited kind of way in spite of the tempation. You'll have to stay tuned for the full story once I get him home. :( It's very sad.

When I was talking to breeders looking for Saleen I had a price point that I wanted to stay under. I had to be realistic afterall. Several breeders I corresponded with had puppies that turned out to be out of my range, some waaayyyy out of my range. Not a single one of them responded to me like that and I kept a lot of their contact info for future poodle searches.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, she told me the amount she was asking and I wrote to follow up with what I can spend. We were off by $400. I complimented her in my email and that was that. Honestly I wasn't interested in a cafe dog but I'm trying to be nice and let the blame fall on my shoulders by saying this is all I want to spend on a puppy but her response was mean spirited. $1000 is not cheap for a pet quality puppy and her insinuation that it is and that I should just go to the shelter was wrong.
 

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Ugh..

Couldn't she just say,"Sorry, my price is firm." Oh well..... keep looking. I wish I had a puppy for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ugh..

Couldn't she just say,"Sorry, my price is firm." Oh well..... keep looking. I wish I had a puppy for you.
That's what I was thinking a simple, sorry we couldn't meet in the middle or whatever. Not that I'd want him anyway, I have no interest in cafe au lait colored poodles and like I said I was trying to be nice and not "I don't want your dog, rude." Oh well, crossing that one off the list!:fish:
 

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So sorry Kpoo:smow: !!!

It was completely uncalled for ! Just saying : "Sorry, I would like to stick with my price" would be more than sufficient from her side.

You do not have to justify your 1000$ to anybody - you have how much you have and that is it ! I am sure that there is a nice breeder out there who would sell pet puppy for 1000 $ - in this economy I can not believe that 2000 $ puppies are "flying off the shelves" :rolffleyes:

Temperament testing costs most of breeders nothing !!!! It is usually done by a fellow breeder, handler or friend trainer , but with her attitude I would not be surprised that she does not have a friend who would do that for her LOL.

Health testing costs, but most of tests are done once in a lifetime and CERF and OFA is about 30$ and 150 $ respectively . Even if total is of the rest comes to 2000 $$$ , it is payed off by JUST A SINGLE PUPPY !!!

What will turn me off to a BYB will be the fact that I discovered that "all" testing usually does NOT include "all testing " at all !!!! What is done is usually for Sire and the Dam "alternatively" - like Sire would have test for Addison, SA and than Dam for WWdb , OFA both and CERF usually once in a lifetime :fish: so diseases are excluded "by parentage" and so forth !!!! Not to mention that I encountered some that did not have a SINGLE CERF on a bitch and it was a TOP breeder :wacko:

My 2 cents (grrrrrrrrrrr....)
 

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Well, she told me the amount she was asking and I wrote to follow up with what I can spend. We were off by $400. I complimented her in my email and that was that. Honestly I wasn't interested in a cafe dog but I'm trying to be nice and let the blame fall on my shoulders by saying this is all I want to spend on a puppy but her response was mean spirited. $1000 is not cheap for a pet quality puppy and her insinuation that it is and that I should just go to the shelter was wrong.
I do not mean to sound rude or mean But breeding is expensive and right now the public wants full health testing as is evidenced by this forum and the chat that goes on . This is not free , I figure it is around 2000.00 per dog The dog food we feed is 50.00 + a bag and I could go on and on Just one day at a show with two dogs is 50.00 and that is not including the hotel fuel to get there and shampoo and and and !!!!FYI 1400.00 is not out of line I send folks to the poodle rescue as well and most of them are grateful Wow I hope I never offend anyone like this .
I am sorry that you feel this way truly ! But you need to understand the other side of the coin :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well, and that's the thing. People say that they test and then there's nothing listed on OFA and they don't do all of the recommended testing but they don't offer lifetime health gurantees on their puppies after incomplete testing. I have a hard time trusting at this point because this is over and over and over.

And it's not that I don't HAVE that $1400 to spend it's that I don't want to spend it. If I found someone that I really trusted and just really adored what they were breeding I'd spend it but I have YET to come across anyone like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I do not mean to sound rude or mean But breeding is expensive and right now the public wants full health testing as is evidenced by this forum and the chat that goes on . This is not free , I figure it is around 2000.00 per dog The dog food we feed is 50.00 + a bag and I could go on and on Just one day at a show with two dogs is 50.00 and that is not including the hotel fuel to get there and shampoo and and and !!!!FYI 1400.00 is not out of line I send folks to the poodle rescue as well and most of them are grateful Wow I hope I never offend anyone like this .
I am sorry that you feel this way truly ! But you need to understand the other side of the coin :)
Okay I posted same time as you and I DO completely understand it and I don't think it's out of line as long as you're showing and actually doing the health testing. If you aren't or are just saying you are or are "cleared by parentage" then I have other opinions on that. I still don't think you should be RUDE to someone because they don't want to pay your price. I certainly wasn't rude to her first so she had no reason to be rude back to me.
 

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Well, and that's the thing. People say that they test and then there's nothing listed on OFA and they don't do all of the recommended testing but they don't offer lifetime health gurantees on their puppies after incomplete testing. I have a hard time trusting at this point because this is over and over and over.

And it's not that I don't HAVE that $1400 to spend it's that I don't want to spend it. If I found someone that I really trusted and just really adored what they were breeding I'd spend it but I have YET to come across anyone like that.

I agree , I have noticed some of these mini breeders are asking a lot for their PET puppies but when you go to OFA no patella or other tests are listed for their sires and dams........:wacko:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I agree , I have noticed some of these mini breeders are asking a lot for their PET puppies but when you go to OFA no patella or other tests are listed for their sires and dams........:wacko:
Yeah that's something that's worried me since I found that out.:eek:hwell:
 

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That was a curt reply, I will agree. So much can get lost in the written word. To be the devil's advocate, however, It is hard not to get offended when you feel your business is being treated like a garage sale, however. Would you walk into your favorite restaurant, or grocerty store, or shopping mall and declare you can't pay more than 3/4 of the ticketed price? Maybe bidding on items on ebay alters a person's perception and you assume everything is negotiable. But sometimes established businesses do become offended (particularly if they *feel* their goods are already an unappreciated bargain). Of course sometimes haggling is acceptable, but sometimes people *do* get offended when they are treated like a flea market. You may have been the third person to try to haggle her down and she just couldn't take it. Perhaps in the future, a better way to approach it would be to say something along the lines of "Unfortunately, my financial situation can't make this work. Is there any chance for negotiation or are your prices firm?" This way you do not risk putting an *insulting* figure on the table which immediately causes the defensive posturing you experienced here. NO offense intended, just trying to show the other point of view. JMO.
 

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No - Bigred - I do not find it offensive , but I do not understand what feeding dogs and grooming them has anything to do with puppies :rolffleyes:

Nobody is forced to breed and have puppies ??? Breeders breed to produce next puppy for their showing and expansion of the "line". One puppy or 2 are chosen and/or exchanged and rest are sold as pets!

Now - why pet owners have to "pick up the tab " ??? I suppose breeders would test their dogs for their own sake !!!! NOT FOR US lol !

PS: So - is a dog showing a sport OR a business , hmmmmmm
 

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Discussion Starter #19
No - Bigred - I do not find it offensive , but I do not understand what feeding dogs and grooming them has anything to do with puppies :rolffleyes:

Nobody is forced to breed and have puppies ??? Breeders breed to produce next puppy for their showing and expansion of the "line". One puppy or 2 are chosen and/or exchanged and rest are sold as pets!

Now - why pet owners have to "pick up the tab " ??? I suppose breeders would test their dogs for their own sake !!!! NOT FOR US lol !

PS: So - is a dog showing a sport OR a business , hmmmmmm
This is what I am thinking 100%! These tests are done for YOUR sake as a breeder so that YOU know what you are breeding for YOURSELF! But some where along the way the pet person has been obligated to pick up YOUR tab so that you can continue your lines!

Btw poodlepal, I wasn't treating her "business" like a garage sale. I simply stated that I was limited to this and that I didn't want to waste her time. Did you even READ my original post? I get the feeling that you just jump into things without even reading the original post.:fish:
 

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Wishpoo Pet owners do not have to pick up the tab. You do not have to buy the puppy.


Why wouldn't feeding, grooming etc factor into the costs? These are all costs associated with running your breeding program. Breeders need to make a profit in order to stay in business. They need to make money for each puppy sold to continue to support their dogs, their homes, their breeding programs. Most are *not* breeding simply for the goal of improving the breed with no need to financially profit or at least break even. They have to financially support the entire program. Pet puppies cost the breeder exactly as much to produce as the show prospects do.

Dog showing is a sport for some and business for many. Most people do not have the discretionary income to throw into showing dogs simply for the sport of it. There are no financial rewards in showing itself. HOw are you going to pay for your property taxes, mortgage, food, dog food, vet bills ets? Through your appropriately priced product. People will charge what the market will bear.
 
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