Here's something I posted yesterday that might help you in evaluating breeders and their websites. It's from the Versatility in Poodles website, which has lots of useful information.
Red Flags (when evaluating a breeder/ breeder's website):
1) A breeder having numerous colors and varieties or breeds.
2) The newest "marketing buzz phrase" e.g. Hunting Poodles, Royal Poodles or Teacup Poodles.
3) Breeding multiple litters in a year.
4) Breeding young (too young for proper genetic clearances). Standards and Miniatures should be 2 years old, and Toys 1 year old before breeding.
5) Breeder willing to sell and ship without personal contact.
My personal opinion, I dont like the type of dogs they are breeding. They seem to be overbreeding, so their conditions of contract mean didley to me.
Anyone breeding this amount are in it for the money.
Please, please, please be careful, as you should be with any breeder you may get involved with. Watch their web site. There is only one other breeder who even comes close to producing the extreme numbers of puppies they produce and I am NOT getting into that. If you feel comfortable after watching their web site for a while that this is a wise decision, then go for it. Don't be in such a hurry that you do something you might regret later. But please, do take the time to watch their web site for awhile and see for yourself the numbers of litters they are producing. Please note too, there is a pup on their site for sale who was born in May, and his mother is pregnant and due in October. While some breeders can explain this away, how can it be right or fair to this female to be having two litters of puppies in five months. They produce AT least 12 litters a year. How can it be possible for a couple with only occasional outside help to socialize that number of puppies???
I would suggest you take a deep breath, keep researching to be sure you are getting involved with a breeder you will be happy to be involved with and if you have to wait to get the dog you desire, do wait.
I agree, an awful lot of litters done/planned this year. I don't know the kennel so would not attempt to comment on their dog's health/temperament or the care of dogs/pups, but it does seem like a lot. Socializing that many pups has to be quite a chore! It sure seems like an awful lot of litters in one year!!
Also, and this is ONLY my opinion, others may feel completely differently, but I am not impressed with a some of the breeding stock, they would not be the conformation that I would be looking for. I realize all dogs have faults, no dog 100% conforms to the breed standard, but I really don't care for dogs that are high in the rear or "unbalanced" looking. This is just my personal opinion on the pics I saw.
Each person has to make their own decision on where they purchase their pup, take a good look at the place you are thinking of buying from, check out their dogs in health and form and their breeding ethics and, if you feel they are right for you, that you will be happy with the pup you will pay for, then that is your choice. Take your time, look around and always ask the seller questions. The seller should be concerned enough to ask you questions about your plans for the pup, if you are familiar with the proper grooming/care a poodle requires and other such questions, and you should feel comfortable asking the breeder questions about their dogs, the dog's lineage, their dog's temperaments, references from other buyers, or anything else that you may want to know.
When I was conducting my search for a red standard poodle puppy, I discounted any breeders who ran "kennels". If I had wanted a dog who was conditioned to live in an outdoor chain link run and not in my home, then I might've considered these types of breeders too. But the reality is, I wanted my new puppy to know what it is like to live inside of a family home, to understand the difference between carpet/tile/laminate floors. I wanted them to know what a television, vacuum cleaner, broom, coffee maker, garbage disposal, radio, etc. was. I wanted my new family member to have been introduced to stairs, doors, furniture, beds, etc. The breeder from whom I chose to get my red standard puppy raises the babies inside her home. She has been providing daily videos of the babies being socialized, learning the new types of flooring, experiencing the outside for the first time, etc.
If ALL I wanted was a "dark red dog" and I didn't care about any of the other things I mentioned, I probably wouldn't have been so diligent in looking for my new baby, but it was important to me that the babies be raised "underfoot" and that the breeder was available to answer any questions I may have... I found that by doing my research and visiting dozens and dozens of websites and by email/telephone communication with several breeders.
There were just a couple of breeders from whom I would have even REMOTELY considered sending my money for a puppy, most of them I crossed off the list before I got very far because of the volume they produced, or the living conditions the puppies had to endure.
It's fine for you to ask for opinions here, but make sure you do your OWN homework, too. If, once you get your dog home, he will live outside in a kennel; then you probably won't have to be as concerned as I am about socialization inside a home. If you plan on welcoming your new puppy inside your home, then it might be a good idea to find someone who raises their puppies in a home environment instead of a kennel situation.
I love the look of the dark red babies, too - but remember, NO ONE can guarantee that the puppy will hold the dark red for its whole life. Most of the red dogs I've seen do fade as they get older (maybe not in the first few years, but eventually it will probably happen) I'm getting a beautiful dark red baby girl in about a month, but even if she turns GREEN in her future, I know I will love her and care for her for her entire life, and that when she comes to me she'll be happy, healthy and well-socialized!
Good luck in your search and do try to find a breeder who loves the breed at least as much as they love the money!
Plumcrazy...your reply is spot on. A puppy who is raised in a home, part of a family, is usually self confident and self assured. It has spent the first eight weeks of its life hearing all the noises you mentioned, knowing these are things not to be feared. He-she is familiar with concrete, wood decks, vinyl floors, hardwood floors, all of the things you mentioned, so anything new is just something new...not something to make the baby fearful or anxious. Most important, they know what it is to be loved. When a puppy is raised in a home being a loved family member, even for the short eight weeks we breeders have them, they are picked up and snuggled, played with, tickled, LOVED...so they go to a new family loving to have their faces smooshed up beside their new peoples faces, loving being handled, just growing to be affectionate and adoring because all of their experiences with humans have been positive ones. Usually when they are raised in a home, it is because the breeder is nuts about dogs. Therefore, their entire family is usually nuts about dogs, so they get exposed to children, seniors and everything in between. So, when they hear a squealing two year old it is no big deal because it has heard this sound before.
A breeders web site is but a tiny glimpse into how the pups are raised. Of course, I am not so naive as to think a lot of breeders are not VERY CAREFUL what you get to see. But, when you go to a web site, do you see the puppies interacting with their littermates. Do you see them playing with humans. Do you see them rolling around the lawn with a child. Do you see them interacting with other dogs in the breeders home that are not the pups parents. Or do you simply see them held up for the camera, looking basically like used cars on a dealers site. THAT should be a red flag for anyone. If they are only exhibited as if they are an item for purchase on ebay, and you cannot see a loving, nurturing environment, turn and run. You should want to see the puppies in their day to day existance, being played with, being exposed to new things, being adored. And a breeder who is simply too busy to photograph pups in these situations, is maybe too busy with the countless other pups they have on their premises to do these things, and THAT should tell a prospective buyer a big story.
I did say tiny. If it is possible, everyone should venture out to the breeders premises to see the situation in person, But I happen to know that is not always as it appears either. If it is a big commercial operation, they may have many buildings on the property that the prospective buyer does not even know about. Appointments are booked for lookers to come and see the pups. Then the breeder will bring a particular litter into the home from one of the buildings, making the lookers believe this litter has been in the home since it was born, but that not always being the case.This may be the first time since the pups were two weeks old that they hnave seen the inside of a home, and aside from being fed and watered, could be the first time since then having human contact as well.
It is not always possible for people to visit the premises. In that case, maybe they should contact past buyers who have been to the premises and get their opinion about the situation. To be certain you are not being set up and contacting one of the breeders close friends or relatives, contact as many as possible, and ask to see photos of the dog they purchased from the breeder. At least this way you have some assurance you are really talking to real people who bought a real puppy from a real breeder. It is too bad that former buyers may have to be bothered by all of this, but I know everyone of my former buyers would be delighted to share their experience here with someone interested in one of my puppies. So even people from afar can have some confidence knowing what they see is what they get. Where can I find your "Beward" post. I would love to read it.
Right on Plum Crazy .. Socializing and raising the puppie sin the home with love. Keeping them clean and happy. Being able to walk by and pick up a puupy a kiss it on the lips is very very important That baby neds to know human trust VERY important ....
I think we may have a pot stirrer in our midst
IMO it is so important to SEE where the puppies come from. And that means seeing them in the whelping box/ x pen/ whatever, not having them brought to you. A breeder who is truly raising their pups in the home will have the pen set up right there in the heart of their home, where you can easily see it.
I say this because "home raised' can mean a lot of different things to people. I went to visit one mini breeder who "home raised" her pups. Well yes, they were home raised, they were in her bedroom. But they were in the top half of a vari kennel under a heat lamp with no space for the mom to escape to if she wanted to get out of the heat. Poor gal was panting away like a freight train. It was nothing like a set up I'm comfortable with.
Anyway, for this reason alone unless I had personal experience with the breeder or personal recommendations from people I know and trust, I would never get a pup sight unseen. I think it's always worth the drive when getting your new family member for the next 12 to 16 years. There's a lot of poodle breeders out there - most people should be able to find a few in their vicinity. And if there really isn't one, I would be doing due diligence to make sure these people raise those puppies the way they say they do by checking references, asking around other breeders, etc.
I am not sure if this is normal or not. I once emailed them about a silver male older dog they were retireing. Anyways was a day late and he was gone BUTT I just received an email yesterday from Cantope asking if I found the pup of my dreams yet with a link to her puppy page. I don't know if I like people keeping my email for these reasons. Is it right or wrong I am on the fence about her getting back to me 6 months after the fact.
I also one time called Fads fancy ( no I didn't nor would I ever buy a puppy from them ) about an ad they had. I was looking for a Parti his responce was no but I have some that have white chest and paws. um no that is not a parti that is a mismark and 1300 bucks I will not pay.
Anyways he called me back I had not left my number with them he took it off his caller ID and saved it. I was pissed actually if I was interested I would have got back to you about your mismarked dogs for which you want to much money for.
Is this ok in your minds for breeders to call back people when they did not request it?
I know what you mean Cdnjenga, but sometimes it is just not possible for a potential family to visit a breeder. While there are lots of Poodle breeders out there, and everyone may have one right around the corner, most of us know a lot of them are not where people should be getting a puppy from. Some of us are very transluscent, and it is easy to tell what is going on. I put photos and videos on Facebook nearly every single day while I have puppies here, and believe me, if I spent time staging the scene every time I was going to photograph or videotape my babies, that is all I would have time to do because I take a ton. People are more than welcome once the pups are over three weeks old (If they are not offended by my de-contamination process at the front door) but distance is sometimes an issue. And distance should not stop someone from buying a puppy from someone they feel comfortable with, or who have dogs they like the look of, or who they are certain are rasing their pups in an ethical, responsible manner, with well socialized, healthy, happy puppies leaving their premises. Electronic technology has made the world a small place, and I know breeders now who are having red breeding stock brought in from Europe to help open up the tight gene pool in reds based on what they can see for themselves. But can they all go to visit first...not a chance. But there are ways of finding things out- research, talking to former buyers, having them send tons of photos and videos to ensure you are making a sound and educated decision. Unfortunately, there will always be people who are in such a hurry, the red lights and sirens are right there in front of them and they just do not want to see it. Better in their eyes to have instant gratification ( and maybe pay a hefty price down the road sometime) than to wait and be looking with their eyes REALLY open, so they see the warning signs of who NOT to buy from.
I personally know two breeders who tout on their sites that their pups "are raised in our country home" and this is just not true. One of them does not rear any of the pups she sells and doesn't even own a Poodle, but leases bitches from people to have her finger in the pie at all times. She doesn't know most of the people whose bitches she leases well, so has no idea how the pups are being raised. Some of the pups she is selling are raised in apartments. And the other...well the pups are raised in the country, but not in their home, rather in kennel buildings that dot their property. With the one, it is glaring, people only have to see the numbers of pups being produced with over lapping litters to know those pups are not being raised in a home. Seriously, no matter how much you love dogs, who is going to have thirty puppies running around their house along with numerous adult dogs? SO, my point is just that there are a ton of unscrupulous morons out there breeding dogs for the money they will make, but, there are lots of us whop do it because they love doing it. Love the breed. Want to improve the breed. Enjoy sending wonderful, happy, healthy, well socialized babies onto new families to enjoy for many years. And those of us in that category should not be penalized because we live a distance away from some of the wonderfcul families our furry children can possibly live with. Just do your research before comitting to a puppy, and do not be in a rush. If it takes a year to get a quality puppy from someone who has done things right, just wait.
I know that I was comforted by getting to see the litter of puppies when I went and saw my breeder. I had picked a completely different puppy for myself than I ended up getting and even then changed again. I had picked a black female puppy and when I got there didn't like her temperament much. She was standoffish and kept to herself and the breeder had a very difficult time grooming her. She was very honest with me about that. She ended up being pet quality after her evaluation but I was glad that after seeing them in person, I A. got to know how the puppies were being socialized and cared for and B. got to put my hands on the puppies myself to see how they interacted with strangers, their mom, each other, and their human mom. Unless I absolutely had to, I don't think I'd buy a puppy without having that experience again.
It does seem sad that they continue to breed their animals even though they have puppies still without homes =\
The place I picked Elphie up at was...it wasn't the best place in the world but the people were sweet and I could tell they loved poodles, they were just overwhelmed with the sheer amount they had in their home
((15 I think was the count before they started "downgrading"))