Poodle Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there! My dog Lili is 1 year and a half years old. When I got her the breeder said she was a phantom toy poodle and would be ten pounds.

She is 13 pounds now and is a Silver beige to white color. I groom her myself and brush her daily so her hair is very straight and soft.

A lot of people when they see her do not believe she is a poodle. They also make fun of me because they say she is too big to be a toy. She looks to be the size of 20lb plus dogs but it's mostly because of her long hair and the fact she doesn't have short legs.

They also think she can't be a poodle because they only have curly hair. I have seen a lot of standards and minis with beautiful long straight hair though.

I would like to hear what you experienced poodle owners think. I have only seen one another poodle her color and size but their hair was very short. Any thoughts or opinions would be great

In the photos that's her at 5 months when she was brown and tan (5 pounds) and then the other is when she was a little over a year (12lbs).
20201011_190824-COLLAGE.jpg
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,106 Posts
I've looked back and see that you've posted several times about her. I'll try to help with some of your questions and comments.

I'm going to focus on the things unrelated to her color.


the breeder said she was a phantom toy poodle and would be ten pounds.
No one can predict with certainty eventual height or weight. They can make reasonable guesses based on the parents, grandparents, great-grandparents and so on, if they know who they are and have records. Remember that height is the determiner for variety, not weight.

At 13lbs, she is either quite overweight for an in-size toy, or she is very oversize for a toy. Without being clipped in such a way to see her structure, or being able to see her in person and run hands over her, and without knowing her height at her shoulder, there's just no way to know.


This is the Canadian Kennel Poodle breed standard re toy size:

Toy Poodle
The Toy Poodle is 10 inches (25. 4cm) or under at the highest point at the shoulder. Any Poodle which is more than 10 inches (25.4 cm) at the highest point at the shoulder shall be excused from competition as a Toy Poodle. If excused at three shows for this reason, the dog than has the same status as a disqualified dog.


A toy poodle can go what's known as oversize, meaning that they will grow over the 10"/25.4cm limit even tho born of toy parents. This may be because further back in the ancestry, a toy was bred with the next size up, the miniature, and due to genetics, some pups may grow over the toy limit of 10".

FYI, Legs should never be short, in any variety (size) of poodle. Short legs would be a genetic mutation or possibly a non poodle with short legs was bred with a poodle along the way.
475032



her hair is very straight and soft.
This is the standard for the poodle coat
Coat Quality
Curly Poodles Dense, naturally harsh texture throughout, frizzy or curly.


Lili's hair isn't completely straight. I see a lot of wave in it. If you get a section of her damp and let it dry naturally, does it curl?

I have seen a lot of standards and minis with beautiful long straight hair though.
While coat quality does vary, the long straight hair you see is more likely to be blown dry til it's straight, rather than naturally so. If the straight coat you see were to get damp or wet and left to dry naturally the natural curl will be more noticeable.

A lot of people when they see her do not believe she is a poodle.
It's almost impossible to tell solely by a picture whether a poodle is purebred or not, and the furred out face makes it even more difficult. If the breeder has provided Canadian Kennel Club registry papers for your Lili, then you can feel much more sure that she's 100% poodle. If there are no registry papers, a poodle clip would help to see the structure of her face and body but a DNA test would be the only way to be 100% certain.


For a bit about the coloring, and I think some of this has already been gone over, here's some quotes from older threads and some links to outside sources. I'm not going to get into the color pattern for now.:

Silver beige will have light faces before they are 12 weeks old, the cafe won't start to pale out until about 18 to 24 months old. Of course when all the color changing is finished some silver beige and some cafe' will be almost the same color.

It is when the paling starts and how quickly they change color that determines which is which if they are one of those borderline colors.
Cafes are like Blues and silver beiges are like silvers in the rate of clearing.
Silver beige is born brown unless you have the very rare silver beige born silver beige and will have liver points. A silver beige will NEVER have black points.

Browns and bown shades such as Cafe Au Lait and Silver Beige must ALWAYS have liver colored points and dark amber eyes.
POODLE COAT COLORS: SILVER & SILVER BEIGE

Cafe Au Laits are most times born a dark brown then "clear" to the cafe color over time as the coat matures. You can in rare cases have a Cafe born Cafe. However this dog will still be a definite light brown color even though it is lighter in shade than brown.

*POINTS refers to the color of the nose, lips, eyeliner, and pads on a poodle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
I think Rose n Poos response above answers your questions, just thought i'd throw in my thought on colour, i would say she was silver beige with phantom. Phantom is the pattern, like a doberman, silver beige being the solid colour; born brown and lightening dramatically to a creamy shade :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
She is very cute. One thing to note is that as the hair grows longer the curl loosens a little bit, so if you are keeping her hair long it will naturally be more wavy than a tight ringlet. To me it looks like her hair is really long with the ends of it being a fine/scraggly texture due to baby hairs being grown out.

If you are in the Ontario GTA area and want to ever get her groomed by a professional, I have a very trustworthy contact who normally works on Standard Poodles but has been doing my toy poodle for the last couple months beautifully. It was very hard for me to find an appropriate groomer for Kara and I am very picky.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
She is very cute. She is a brown phantom that has faded out lots. Cannot say if a pure poodle due to her coat length. She appears to be a miniature poodle size in the picture.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,041 Posts
013 (1209x2000).jpg

you might consider Bea a phantom, but she had faux phantom clearing
little bea.JPG

baby Bea.JPG

20210206_121717.jpg

She is a Cafe and white girl

I think your pup is silver beige and white, but had faux phantom clearing
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,106 Posts
At 13lbs, she is either quite overweight for an in-size toy, or she is very oversize for a toy.
Weight will naturally vary, depending on height and build. I was basing the above statement on twyla's data on her oversize toy, Leonard. He's an adult now, at 11" and I think 6.5lbs.

My smaller mpoo boy, Remo, is about 12-13" at the shoulder and his weight ranges from 12.5-13lbs as an adult. I should mention that he came from a small mpoo/oversize toy cross (it's a long story).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,601 Posts
I was basing the above statement on twyla's data on her oversize toy, Leonard. He's an adult now, at 11" and I think 6.5lbs.
Merlin is even smaller at 6 lbs for 11 inches. At 13 lbs, that’s definitely a very big toy, but most probably a miniature and not a toy. It’s bone structure doesn’t look fine like what toys have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I forgot to add that when I bathe her the shorter hair she has looks curly. The longer hair usually lays flat. Here's a photo of her face wet after her bath was over :).
IMG_20210224_231157_879.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thank you! I was amazed when her color changed so much after she had her first proper groom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi there! That would be amazing if I could find a groomer that works with poodles. I live in Burlington, Ontario.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I am going to measure her to see her actual size. I think you may be right. Her vet says her weight is fine thankfully. She usually goes from 12 to 13 pounds as she can be very picky and not eat sometimes :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Aww thank you ❤. She is really lovely and has a super playful personality. Very lucky to have her.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Bea is lovely! She also changed so much like Lili. I haven't seen many dogs that look her. :love:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thank you! That's very helpful. When I saw her parents I thought the father looked bigger then a toy but most of the toy poodles I saw before I got Lili were very small. I would say from 4-8 pounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I think you are right. Toys I have seen have different bone structure. I think she may be on the smaller end of a mini or in between sizes.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top