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Discussion Starter #1
Once again I have asked hubby to pick out a haircut for Jazz. I found a photo I liked of a modified sweetheart to show him on a groomer forum and he just stared blankly at the screen. So I made the mistake of handing him the poodle book and said HERE pick one. Thats not beena good idea in the past...

For the newer memebers the last time I did this he picked the english saddle, which he said looked like the "tire man" lol. Naturaly I accomplished the trim and he hated it, said I could go ahead and put her into a continetal now LoL. I made her wear the clip for a couple months because I like it, and I wanted to punish him for making me do all that hard work and then wanting me to shave it off.

We bathed and dried her tonight, it takes two of us now because I can't lift her up anymore. I am gathering the courage to try the clip he picked, which was the sweetheart actualy. We are currently arguing over the shaved neck, I scissored her mohawk back into her body so it just looks like a crest now, the way it should lol. He says to go ahead and bzzzzzzz the whole thing off. I'm not sure I can bring myself to do that. It's cold outside and I am not sure I can deal with a bald neck anyhow. It's never been my favorite look. I like her to be fluffy when we cuddle. I miss the hair she used to have before I couldn't deal with it anymore.

Anyway, I'll post pics tomarrow... assuming I don't chicken out. I am going to try and get John to put her up on the table now so I can give it a go. *sigh* :)
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Oh... this came out BAD.

Thinking back I seem to recall posting Jazz's mohawk pictures before Halloween, before I colored her. It seems to me that somewhere in that post I think I said something along the lines of if you get an idea to groom check the clock, if it's after your bedtime just go sleep on it don't go do it. Funny how I remember that advice now at 20 to 2 in the morning after having cried for the last hour 1/2 over Jazz's new haircut.

My second bit of advice to myself will be to NEVER EVER allow my husband to have a say in new haircuts. I should have learned my lesson last time with the saddle clip, this time it's burned into memory in a different sort of (ugly) way. Whats worse is that in two weeks I have Jazz set up for a little PR marketing type event for the business... Methinks Wonder will have to take her place but who knows my latest creature creation may grow on me by then.

:doh: she looks like a turtle.... I don't know what happened. I used to do a TON of dutch clips on poodles of all sizes but haven't done one in probably two years. Apparently I am out of practice on how to get the look of the clippered neck. I am also stupid enough to let my husband talk me into clippering the neck when I told him I might miss her neck hair and she might not be as cuddly. His viewpoint was if you're going to do this clip do the whole clip and do the way it's supposed to be done. Then the next time you do it and you want to modify it fine, go ahead. I don't mind a bald neck so clip it tonight...

here's the before, it's kind of sad when the before picture looks better than the afters.
2009_1128jazzSweetheart0002.jpg

The pattern line which I will not complain about at all, Im kind of proud of it. I wasn't sure I could do it and I've never tried this particular pattern. It isn't perfect but for a first attempt with a shape I am never good at accomplishing (I can never get a pretty V it seems and here I needed two of them), it isn't so bad. It is also a straight line, WHOOOOOOO!!! I've complained before how it's so difficult to get Jazz to not bow her body out and throw your clipper line off.
2009_1128jazzSweetheart0004.jpg

An the finished result, which I am horrified at and kind of ashamed to post. We went ahead and did a 5th Avenue leg style for reasons I can't even recall and I don't mind that soooo much, when her hair is a little longer it will look less leg warmer-ish which will be better.
You'd think I wasn't a pro looking at this crap... LoL.
2009_1128jazzSweetheart0011.jpg

I have decided that a shaved neck and for that matter a dutch or any of it's variations looks best on a dark colored dog, all my previous dutch clips have been on black dogs, or dogs with at least half an inch more hair than Jazz has. It also isn't a a good idea to do a shaved neck unless you're planning to do a) full long poodle ears, or b) tassled ears neither of which is possible with Jazz tonight. I don't have enough feathering on the bottoms of her ears to get a tassel right now. Dumb me tried to get that last all important V shape at the base of the neck and ended up with the clipper area almost to the shoulder blade, which is a little low.

Just goes to show I should have followed my own advice, when in doubt USE A SNAP ON COMB to set the pattern. My one blesssing is that Jazz's hair grows lightning fast, I stipped her down with a 7 blade 6-ish weeks ago and her hair is already at the inch long mark.
 

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Ok, now while I have to admit it DOES look unbalanced, I think you can improve it a bit still while you wait for it to grow out.
I think it's not the light dog thing, but the fact she is rather long in the body *anyway* and this clip does nothing to hide that!!!

I'd shave her neck down a tad more to her shoulders, and also angle the line between the shaved neck and the fuller chest more, to mirror a nice shoulder angle. And take it a bit shorter on both the withers and the hips to help hide the sway back look she's pulling off at the mo too!

In the end I don't think this clip suits her really, though the clip itself is totally fine!!! You live and learn! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
you're right about it not suiting her, she isn't long in back actualy at all. She measures exactly 22 by 22 and has a pretty level topline. She does the sway back or the roach up routine when you try and set her up. She doesn't have a good shoulder though she pretty straight. Something I tend to forget from time to time so I forget to hide it lol. I wish I could transplant her hair texture onto Saleen who is a much nicer examaple of a poodle lol. Poor Jazz, first a BYB, then another BYB bought her and now we have her and she gets dumb haircuts LoL. What a tolerant girl, if my mommy put that clip on me I think I would run away from home ROFL.

The pattern itself isn't doing her any favors thats for sure. Looking at it now, after I have calmed down, the line could be moved up. In person it looks like it's to far back. Her neck looks a mile long and I think would just be better off if it grew back totaly. The first pictures of her on the table she was straining against the grooming loop and it looked like she had the worst neck eweI have ever seen. Honetsly it looks better in person than in the pictures, but not by much LoL. Not my best work, once again. I seem to be noticing that my grooming is suffering lately :( I'm thinking the mohawk turned out better than this did. Maybe I'll try and get some outside pictures of her standing more naturaly and see if they look better?? Haha, she's no Paris :p but I think I am about over the need to cry over this haircut, though I did still kind of tear of this morning :rolffleyes: hormones maybe?

I need to just LEAVE HER ALONE and let her grow back to something like this picture, even though she is between styles here she looks a ton better. You can see how pretty she *could* be here.
 

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she still really doesn't look square though... Where are you measureing to get her square? It should be that withers to the ground = to the front of the chest to the back of the butt. I'll do pics later to show what I mean
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I know what you mean FD, we used withers to grown, chest to tail. There is always the possiblilty that there was a mistake I suppose. I looked it up before we did it because I wasn't sure and when talking length in the past it has been withers to ground withers to base of tail (for tibbies) and they are supposed to be longer than they are tall. I don't see what you see but being that she is my dog I am more likely to ignore or not notice something that just jumps out and screams at you :) When I first got her she was the best poodle ever and could have been a show dog (don't laugh) now obviously I see more LoL. Compairing her to Saleen the differences are pretty loud at times. Saleen by the way I measured a few months back and she was longer than she is tall, haven;t measured her again to see if she's evened out because she went through a bit of a growth spurt. I'm betting that she is still at least half an inch longer than she is tall. She looks longer than Jazz close up but she is bigger so maybe that is why.

I'm looking back at the orgional pictures from last night and am noticing she looks really high in the rear, wondering how I managed to get that look??

wonder where that measureing tape is now... now I am curious again.
 

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ok, well looking at the nice pic of her, I added lines in. The height for example, on my screen is about 12cm. Her Length is 15cm. Obviously she's taller than 15cm!!! just for comparison sake...

I have added a green line above her, to show how tall she'd have to be to make her square compared to her length, and conversly a green line on her side to show how short she'd have to be to be square for her height.

Hair may be making her look bigger, but not by a whole lot...
 

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She does look a little long in the body. So as a groomer how would you hide that and make her look more square with hair?
 

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and going with Paris, if you ignore her hair at the mo (she has at least 4 inchs over her neck & shoulders, and several inches on her chest too!) then she comes out square in a pic. I've never actually measured her in real life to find out, maybe I will later...! lol!
 

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more hair on the neck to lengthen her neck & shorten her back (make it looks like her withers are furthur back than they are)
shorten the hair at her ass and chest WAY short. I'm talking at LEAST a 5F blade, or shorter to reduce the length of her body.
Also grow more on the front of her back legs, and the back of her front legs, to reduce the visual gap between them, thereby reducing the visual length of the body. At the same time, move her tuck up way forwards too.
Youn can grow a bit more on the topline, but moreso to try and keep it as level looking as possible rather than to add height (you'll shorten her neck if you try to add height to her body with hair!) but definitely take it super short underneth (again, at least a 5F or shorter) to lift her body up a bit...

Basically anything that will give the illusion that her body is shorter and higher.

I've attempted to edit the pic a bit, but I'm not great at doing that, if you compare to the original though (the first pic) you might see the difference I made in the second:
2009_03250036.jpg 2009_032500362.JPG

it's not MUCH change, but there is little you can do really with grooming if it's as pronounced as it seems with Jazz. Anything you're doing, is only gonna tweak it a little.
 

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No No Duster - you did FANTASTIC job and demonstration of what can be done by correct grooming technique !!!! Even though I never groomed a poodle -it was absolutely clear to me of what should be done and I am sure to all that read this :)

Oh boy, do I wish I can take your classes LOL
 

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lmao wishpoo, I don't have no classes! I'm only a newbie groomer myself really, it was only just over 4 years ago I first walked into a grooming parlour, let alone done the whole bath, clip, brush & scissor a dog thing!! I just learned a lot in the past year or so by posting on the grooming forums and getting Paris' trims critiqued a LOT, it made me learn what exactly it is that I'm doing, and WHY!
 

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Well that makes a lot of sense and I really do see a difference when you fill it in and take it out in certain areas. It's all about the visual effect.
 
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