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I have a Toy, 15 months old. He uses pads and is really, really good about it. He has a couple behind his crate and we keep one in the kitchen. Those are his only two rooms that he has full access to most of the time without 100% supervision.

The little guy is perfect with the pad use except for one area about 5 x 5 in the kitchen near the table. It's on the opposite side of the room from his kitchen pad. Every few days he's in the kitchen and someone turns their back for 15 seconds and he's gone over there and done a #1 or 2. He's got his kitchen pad and uses it often but there's just something about that spot near the table that he seems spellbound to go tag and I can't figure it out.

We were just keeping him out of the kitchen since he couldn't be trusted, but then decided we would give him a chance to screw up and just do consistent timeouts but I don't think it's working. And he's well aware when he does it he's in trouble. I'll see him wander over that direction and I'll call out his name and he comes right back over to me like he knows I know what was about to go down. And when he does manage to pull it off he bolts as soon as he sees I saw it. He knows exactly where his bathroom spots are and although he gets a treat for going, he's also sitting at home right now in a gated area and will be hitting the pads on his own and only get his positive feedback and treats when we get back.

Any insight would be most appreciated. This is an amazing little pup otherwise.
 

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Do you clean with Nature's Miracle or another cleaner formulated to break down pet soil enzymes? That will help discourage him. If you don't use something like that, then he'll be able to smell that he peed there last time (even if you can't smell anything), and that smell will encourage him to go there again. Normal cleaners don't erase the hormonal/enzymatic smell that dogs pick up from a pee spot.

If you are cleaning with stuff that breaks it down at that level, then it could just be a matter of habit. Dogs generally like to potty in the same spots over and over again. It's convenient, reinforces their territory, and helps ensure they aren't pottying near their food. It's instinctive for them. So I'd say your best bet is to give it one more *very* thorough clean (if it's a carpeted area, look for something that'll really penetrate to the floor in case anything's soaked through), then try to associate the spot with something else. Play there, feed him there, train there, something that helps him think of it as something other than a potty spot.
 

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Do you clean with Nature's Miracle or another cleaner formulated to break down pet soil enzymes? That will help discourage him. If you don't use something like that, then he'll be able to smell that he peed there last time (even if you can't smell anything), and that smell will encourage him to go there again. Normal cleaners don't erase the hormonal/enzymatic smell that dogs pick up from a pee spot.

If you are cleaning with stuff that breaks it down at that level, then it could just be a matter of habit. Dogs generally like to potty in the same spots over and over again. It's convenient, reinforces their territory, and helps ensure they aren't pottying near their food. It's instinctive for them. So I'd say your best bet is to give it one more *very* thorough clean (if it's a carpeted area, look for something that'll really penetrate to the floor in case anything's soaked through), then try to associate the spot with something else. Play there, feed him there, train there, something that helps him think of it as something other than a potty spot.
Those are good thoughts. Thanks!

We use Bona laminate floor cleaner so we don't mess up the flooring with lysol or whatever.

There's one spot in the living room where he would randomly pee every few days but he finally quit and I don't think we cleaned it with anything special. I may have used Lysol there at some point and got the job done though.

I'll get some of that cleaner and give it a shot, then try socializing over there, etc. I keep telling my wife it's like he almost doesn't even realize he's doing it until afterward. And I think he actually does convince himself not to do it for a few days until the memory of being in timeout fades.
 

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The enzyme/hormone smell can sometimes stimulate them to need to go when they didn't a minute ago, so if that's what it is he could very well not know he's going to do it until he gets there. Especially since puppies don't have very well-developed "holding it" skills yet.
 

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Time-outs don’t work, dogs don’t understand that concept.

Your dog is marking in the kitchen, so he will do it any chance he gets. He is leaving his scent to mark his territory, like all males do. Using regular cleaning products, no matter how strong, won’t work. You can use vinegar and water (1 part vinegar to 3-4 parts water) and it will eliminate the smell.

Most of all, your dog can’t be trusted in the house and should always be supervised until he has been successful at using his pipi pads 100% of the time for a long time (at least 6-8 weeks) to break the habit.

Maybe make a post for him to pee on where he’s allowed to if he doesn’t already have one.

And if you can, sending them outside is definitely the ideal solution. But I know it’s not always possible.
 

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You mention time-outs - as Dechi says, that won't do anything to teach him where you want him to toilet, but I wonder if you have inadvertently taught him not to toilet where you can see him, especially as you say he only does it when no one is watching. Dogs tend to associate the fuss with the act, not the place - in his mind it may have become Not Safe to toilet where you can see him, so he is choosing a spot out of your sight that smells right. I would clean the area very thoroughly with an enzyme cleaner or vinegar, and go back to puppy basics - watch him like a hawk, treats and party when he performs in the right place, move him calmly to the right place if you catch him in the act, consider it your error not his if you don't. As Dechi says, it is much easier to teach the difference between inside/outside than this spot but not that spot.
 

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I trained 2 toys for the potty patch Cayenne for 1 and 2 , Sage for #1 only, as she walks when she does number 2 so for that she goes outside. Until I got her trained I ut a diaper on her.. I only use one potty patch, and I tried to move it to my bathroom my moving it a foot every 2 or 3 days, did not work Cayenne original space. Sage at night will use potty patch outside during the day. I kept treats above the potty patch and gave one every time then went, in fat Cayenne would pretend to pee to get a treat. I think the potty patch needs to be in one place only. When I take them someplace I put the potty patch down and show themm and it stays in that place until we come home
 

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Thank you all for these detailed replys!

I made a mistake in my intro post. He's not 15 months, he's 15 WEEKS, hence the reason I brag on his awesomeness at this young age. I've never actually had a dog and I'm 39 but I still feel like he's learning at an accelerated pace. We've tried hard not to give in to whining and things and although he'd rather be where we are, he really is getting self-sufficient quickly. We had a couple people take him when we went on vacation a few weeks ago and he was on the pads consistently in a day at one home, and in a couple hours at the other. He's a social chameleon. Didn't whine for us or anything.

His main pad area is behind his crate. We can see him but he also gets a little privacy. I rarely will stand and watch him go unless I'm trying to coax him into it when I need him to be in the kitchen and don't want him tempted to hit that spot. All his potty visits receive clapping and praise and a treat. The little stinker even figured out he can drink water and go more often. He cracks me up.

We figured out pretty quickly the timeouts weren't working (at least in the long term) pretty quickly, which led me here. It doesn't surprise me to find out from you all that timeouts don't work at all. I'd rather understand why he does things than just try to make him not do it by some other means.

I do plan to start taking him outside first thing in the morning. He's been pretty great about holding everything overnight the past few weeks but putting that harness on him can be a real chore with his small size and fluffiness..lol. I think I'm gonna put a regular collar on him full time so I can snap him on real quick in the morning when I know he won't be trying to run and play immediately. He's always very sleepy and stretchy at first so I think he'll be good to go out and do this thing and come right back in. We don't have a fenced yard so I can't turn him loose. One thing about it I hate is since he's so small the dewey grass really soaks him.
 

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Remember that although puppies will learn the concept of housebreaking often very early that doesn't mean they are reliably housebroken until they develop the neuromuscular ability to hold their bladder and bowel against pressure to go. This doesn't usually happen until they are about 6 months old (or sometimes a bit older). I recommend using a crate or having your pup tethered to you and one pad in the place you plan to permanently have one (if you have that in your plans) until your pup is at least 6 months old. Clean that spot with an enzyme based cleaner like Nature's Miracle very thoroughly including anything that might have been splashed on.
 

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With that potty patch in the same spot, when going to bed I just say Sage, Cayenne go potty patch, one gets on each end with their butts facing each other. Sage does not get up at night, once in awhile Cayenne will wake me up, I just put her off the bed (keep a bell on her), off she goes, and gives a high grunt when she comes back t the bedroom to be picked up and put back in bed
 

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I’m going to read the riot act to you and I hope you’re not upset. Your puppy is not toilet trained. He’s a smart little guy and trying his best but he needs serious help from you to get the right foundation in his training.

You have to take him back to square one and limit his movement. Tether or crate without allowing him the chance to sneak off and potty inappropriately - not once. You have to be strict for awhile until you break this current bad habit. This is serious, or you risk a lifetime of your dog peeing and pooping inappropriately. And it can be worse with a male because more males than females like to mark with pee, and mark often.

The enzyme cleaners enzymatically break down the proteins in the urine and poop so they don’t smell. Careful cleaning of the area afterwards should remove all scent drawing your puppy.

I attend a small dog social with my dog indoors. I can’t tell you how many of the males pee inside on chair and table legs, on toys and gate and even people (thankfully that particular dog never comes anymore) etc. yes they pee not to empty their bladder but to mark. And their owners are oblivious to it. Some have told me they mark in their homes. What I’m really witnessing is owners who didn’t properly potty train their dogs. I also take many dog training classes and participate in dog sports so I see a ton of dogs, including small male dogs who love to pee mark and they never pee inside training facilities. Their owners properly trained their dogs. These dogs pee mark outside buildings, not in them. They know if you compete and your dog pees or poops inside you are automatically disqualified. It’s just not acceptable. your goal is a tpoo who is happy to leave pee marks outside or on his potty patch but no where else inside.

The hard work you do in the next few weeks and months will pay off handsomely with a tpoo you can trust to potty correctly for his lifetime and that’s a huge reward for the hard work of potty training

And you might want to read up on PF about potty training just to be completely clear on how to do it. I don’t say this to be nasty but because I want the best outcome for you and your dog. I hope you post back in a few months and tell us about your success overcoming this problem. Good luck
 

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Well said Skylar. It is so important to get house training done correctly. House soiling and destruction of furniture and the like are the two main reasons dogs get rehomed. Since this pup is a baby dog a good clean start should get things back on track, but it has to be perfect, especially with males. Javelin tried pee marking a couple of times in stores and such when he was an older puppy. He got scooped up mid pee right away every time sometimes to the detriment of what I was wearing, but he wouldn't dream about marking inside anywhere now because he was taught to eliminate appropriately and also not to think he needs to mark every object he passes.


PJR202 please don't be offended. This is just really important for you and your pup to fix it now.
 
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At 15 weeks, rather than months, it is not so much a matter of going back to basics as still being in the middle of them. As others have said, you are still in the throes of toilet training. He should be getting to the stage where he is aware that he needs to poo, and can hold it briefly, but much of the time he will pee almost without being aware that it is about to happen, and won't have much control over his bladder for several more months.
 

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Thank you all. I didn't find anyone offending at all. Everyone has been polite and helpful.

If I left the impression that he's been marking, that's not the case. If what he's doing in that one spot is marking then I wouldn't disagree, but he's never peed on a chair leg or really anything else. He did on his blanket and pillow a couple times when he was younger but he's not doing anything I would consider marking these days aside from that spot in the kitchen. My wife cleaned it with vinegar and water and he hasn't gone there again, so far... We do also kinda block him in his pad area and compel him to pee sometimes in the mornings if he starts trying to play and hasn't gone yet. He always obeys though.

He's literally sitting at home daily now that school is back in session and we have him and his crate and his pads (and his beloved beanbag chair we refer to as his "lair") inside a 12 x 6 pen we setup in the living room and he's hit his pads every time for two straight weeks. We're not even home to reward him every time, although we've made it a point to take him to his pads and let him know that we see that he was a good boy and give him a couple extra treats on the spot.

I'm re-reading everyone's suggestions and info and will looking into how we do things and what we can do better. I really appreciate all the help!
 

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I think people who were looking at it as marking thought he really was 15 months old not 15 weeks old. But do nip this in the bud. It sounds like you are getting a better system. A little toughness on schedule maintenance and not allowing to much freedom should fix it all up.
 

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I think people who were looking at it as marking thought he really was 15 months old not 15 weeks old. But do nip this in the bud. It sounds like you are getting a better system. A little toughness on schedule maintenance and not allowing to much freedom should fix it all up.
Thanks. I caused a bit of confusion but I don't see a way to edit my original post to show 15 weeks.
 

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Thanks. I caused a bit of confusion but I don't see a way to edit my original post to show 15 weeks.

After your post is more than an hour old you can't edit. But no worries, clarifying later is all good.
 
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