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Hi all,

I recently came upon a breeder selling merle poodles. She says her poodles are registered in the AKC and CKC.

But merle isn't an option for poodle registration, is it? I took a look at the AKC registration papers for my poodle and Merle wasn't there. I know the same is true for CKC.

How is it possible they are registered then? Are they hanging papers? Are there any consequences for this?

I feel very sad for the customers being taken advantage of here.
 

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Any person can post anything they want. That doesn't make it true. AKC does not register merle poodles since there is no way a dog with merle coloring is 100% a poodle.
 

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They probably registered as a different color. At some point along the line a different breed was slipped into the blood. On purpose or accident... who knows. But a breeder doesn't have to blood test the pups to prove who the parents are when they register. Just because they are AKC registered doesn't prove they're pure poodles.
 

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To some extent, less so now with testing possible, AKC registrations are on the honor system. If the breeder says Jim Dandy was the sire when it was actually Old Shep, how would anyone know apart from the puppies having odd proportions? A few generations of crossing back to pure poodles and the conformation would look pretty normal again.
A show breeder gets no reward for being dishonest. A cobby puppy with poor tail set won't win no matter what its papers say. A color breeder who can't show can still benefit from having AKC papers
 

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Miss Pia Maria , Mr. Leonard Pink , Ida Lou and Ussman
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The Kennel Club or KC, in the UK has banned registering merle in non traditional merle colored breeds , that the beginning of the year.
Basically Collies, Koolies, Corgis, Australian Shepherds etc are excepted because the color is naturally occuring.
 

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I recently saw a breeder whose CKC papers said “Merle” on them and she also showed her DNA results showing 100% poodle. Is there any way to make the purebred genetic tests more accurate? From what I understand, the current ones only go about 5 generations back...
 

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I recently saw a breeder whose CKC papers said “Merle” on them and she also showed her DNA results showing 100% poodle. Is there any way to make the purebred genetic tests more accurate? From what I understand, the current ones only go about 5 generations back...
The difficulty is that the way they do it detects fragments of DNA. The further out the generations get, the smaller the fragments get. So as you get further out it becomes harder to detect breed with accuracy. Especially with a breed that has huge variation like poodles. I think Embark is more reliable than wisdom because they use more genetic markers. They may get more accurate in the future. But that sort of sequencing can be expensive. So they're getting it as accurate as they can with the price point people can afford right now. As prices for sequencing go down, they'll be able to accomplish more.
 

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Miss Pia Maria , Mr. Leonard Pink , Ida Lou and Ussman
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CKC as in Canadian Kennel Club or Continental Kennel Club? Because the latter doesn't require DNA testing to register a dog
 

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Miss Pia Maria , Mr. Leonard Pink , Ida Lou and Ussman
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P.S. Continental Kennel Club, is not a kennel club like the AKC and the KC. Because from my understanding is that if your dogs looks like a poodle you can register it as a poodle.
 

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CKC as in Canadian Kennel Club or Continental Kennel Club? Because the latter doesn't require DNA testing to register a dog
I’m pretty sure it was the Canadian Kennel Club. Can’t check since she blocked me on Instagram after I liked a question asking what colors were on her AKC papers.. 🙄
 

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Any person can post anything they want. That doesn't make it true. AKC does not register merle poodles since there is no way a dog with merle coloring is 100% a poodle.
While the AKC doesn't register/recognize "Merle" poodles, I do in fact have a phantom blue merle standard poodle and she has been Embark genetic breed tested and is 100% poodle. So yes, they can absolutely be 100% a Poodle. :giggle:
 

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I recently saw a breeder whose CKC papers said “Merle” on them and she also showed her DNA results showing 100% poodle. Is there any way to make the purebred genetic tests more accurate? From what I understand, the current ones only go about 5 generations back...
CKC - Continental Kennel Club or Canadian Kennel Club. The Canadian Kennel Club is a respected registry. The Continental Kennel Club is not respected by knowledgeable people.
 

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While the AKC doesn't register/recognize "Merle" poodles, I do in fact have a phantom blue merle standard poodle and she has been Embark genetic breed tested and is 100% poodle. So yes, they can absolutely be 100% a Poodle. :giggle:
Embark only goes back 3-4 generations. The gene for merle in poodles is 100% identical to the merle gene found in herding breeds, showing it did not arise independently in poodles. It is a very complicated gene and would not be identical if that wasn't the source. And, unsurprisingly, the first breeder to "produce" them also bred merle Shetland sheepdogs. That was many generations ago, far further than embark will be able to show you.

They still make lovely pets and are welcome forum members (as are any others with dogs that aren't 100% poodle).
 
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