Your right Roxy there are very few wrong methods of dog training, only methods used improperly or straight out abuse. I used correction chains on my first dogs, but no longer. Training in my school of thought is about communication and I've found other ways to communicate. For example with markers, like you're doing with the clicker training.
Cbrand, do you realize you have become my new favorite forum memeber?
Don't take that the wrong way, I enjoy reading your posts on training, especialy since you do a lot, even though we're sometimes on opp. sides of the fence.
To answer your question first I have to address the attention part. If I cue for attention and don't get it, which with puppies or super disctractions I may not, Im in the habit of touching the dog in the teaching stage. A poke in the back of the head or butt usualy works or tweaking an ear. I also have sucess when I first start out with that annoying kissy noise, you know what I mean. I have a rule in my classes that all attention training is to be done within arms reach of your dog to start. This is because I want to avoid the natural temptation to use the name to teach come when called. Once you get attention at two feet you work it at 3 and once you get 3 your jump to 4. I'm big into progressing and chaining behaviors.
In teaching, when we first start using long lines in my class you get those few dogs who can't handle that and don't respond to the first cue. In these cases if attention is the problem I shorten the line for the student and have them try ONCE to get the dog's attention with any other sound they can make after he fails to respond to his name the first time. I'm not in the habit of teaching dogs to count, or so I tell my class. As such I gripe at anyone giving cue's over and over, 'don't repeat the cue!!!!!" If they still fail to respond then they can give a little tug to get attention or go get the dog. I personaly usualy encourage them to go get the dog if they had their attention. It makes it clear that they are going to back up whatever they've said.
If I have an adult dog, who's been reliably working the behavior for quite some time who fails to complete a cue when I call them my reaction depends on the nature of the failure. I try and keep myself in the mind frame that if the dog the dog's failure is really MY failure and I need to step back and look at where we went wrong. If the Saleen gets called, and looks over at me and then decides to saunter off in the other direction She gets ONE verbal correction and maybe an addition direction, (EH EH!! LEAVE IT!) if she should fail to respond to that and so far she's only done that once, she gets popped(collar). However if I didn't have that dogs attention I go get the dog. If a super distraction appears sometime between the cue and the time the dog gets to me Leave it comes out and then a verbal correction if needed and then follow with a bit of tension on the leash to remind them to keep comming. If she's off lead, which is rare for me to call her when she's loose b/c of her age and inexperience, and she fails to come I go get her scruff of neck or collar and bring her back to whever I was when I started. Then I practice a couple of recalls frm short distances to make sure I haven't lost anything.
I could ramble on about this forever... I really find recalls one of my easiest behaviors to teach and have little to no trouble with them. (Straight sits for formal recalls are sometimes a different matter). I always make the recall a big party, loud clear happy voice, trotting backwards like you mention or an all out game of chase me (where the dog gives chase not the other way around) loads of praise and hand clapping and of course the jackot reward which depends on the dog. Usual the only times I get refusals are A)when I failed to fully get the dogs attention and I called him anyway or B) I have a dog going through that wonderful age where the general response to everything is "Why?" or "Make me" lol.
I wouldn't argue that the occasional collar pop isn't warrented, I just don't let my basic students do it. Students in private training may be an emergancy or in more advanced classes get to use different methods so long as they are methods I don't consider abusive. I don't allow hitting, shaking, or any other potentialy painful correction and don't allow certain collars in class settings. I try and keep myself middle of the road and mellow.
