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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I have researched this tons and looked in lots of our forums. I see some posts but do real definitive answer, and I guess this is because it is up for debate and person opinion.

Norman is 8 months old (tomorrow) and 60 lbs. I exercise him plenty ao weight gain is not a huge worry of mine. He has no behavior issues (at least none that I cant handle :aetsch: ) and started to spray every mailbox in his path the past two weeks. The spraying does not bother me, I just find it silly because he is still learning how to lift his leg in the air without falling lol! Is him spraying a sign that I should neuter soon?

I do not want to do it too soon because I have read that their hormones are good for their muscle development. And other issues (in article below)
https://www.intermountainpet.com/blog/why-you-should-wait-until-puberty-to-neuter-your-dog

https://www.calisunpoodles.com/health-info

I want him to have the best life possible and this is something that is a big step for me... He is my first dog (that is fully mine) and my baby so just thinking about doing anything too soon or too late, especially surgery, worries me. I am sure you all can relate with those fears!!

When did you neuter your standards? Do y'all have any experience with neutering too early or too late?

thank you for your advice in advance!! You are all always so helpful!!


EDIT: Also I read in a forum about "Pexy" for Poodles. "The dog's stomach is sutured to the body wall, preventing it from twisting." This is something I will talk to vet about but can y'all give me advice on this too? Do you all recommend? Have you had this done? Are there cons to doing it?
 

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So I have researched this tons and looked in lots of our forums. I see some posts but do real definitive answer, and I guess this is because it is up for debate and person opinion.

Norman is 8 months old (tomorrow) and 60 lbs. I exercise him plenty ao weight gain is not a huge worry of mine. He has no behavior issues (at least none that I cant handle :aetsch: ) and started to spray every mailbox in his path the past two weeks. The spraying does not bother me, I just find it silly because he is still learning how to lift his leg in the air without falling lol! Is him spraying a sign that I should neuter soon?

I do not want to do it too soon because I have read that their hormones are good for their muscle development. And other issues (in article below)
https://www.intermountainpet.com/blog/why-you-should-wait-until-puberty-to-neuter-your-dog

https://www.calisunpoodles.com/health-info

I want him to have the best life possible and this is something that is a big step for me... He is my first dog (that is fully mine) and my baby so just thinking about doing anything too soon or too late, especially surgery, worries me. I am sure you all can relate with those fears!!

When did you neuter your standards? Do y'all have any experience with neutering too early or too late?

thank you for your advice in advance!! You are all always so helpful!!


EDIT: Also I read in a forum about "Pexy" for Poodles. "The dog's stomach is sutured to the body wall, preventing it from twisting." This is something I will talk to vet about but can y'all give me advice on this too? Do you all recommend? Have you had this done? Are there cons to doing it?
My Vet advised me to wait until 14 months. She said new research suggests that early neutering for big breeds like Standards is no longer suggested. Charlie is now 2.5. Years old, is nearly 30 inches at the shoulder, weighs over 80 pounds, all of it lean hard muscle. No people food given, just good quality kibble. Vet very happy with his condition. We travel extensively and have to exercise him at leash free parks. Soon after he was neutered we noticed a huge difference in the unprovoked aggressive behavior of other dogs towards him. He also stopped running after every dog he saw in the distance if he happened to be off leash. As he is intended only to be a pet, we did not hesitate to neuter, is a much better animal for our lifestyle and we did sign a non-breeding agreement as condition of sale anyhow.

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I have to wonder - are vasectomy and tubal ligation not good options for dogs? I don't see why we have to remove the gonads instead of just cutting or tying the tubes. I understand that for some dogs, males especially, they are removed for behavioral reasons. But I have a 4-month-old female, and I am not looking forward to spaying. I also agreed to do so as part of my purchase agreement, but for me the important thing is not to get stuck with puppies, I don't necessarily want to deny her of hormones for the rest of her life.
 

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I have to wonder - are vasectomy and tubal ligation not good options for dogs? I don't see why we have to remove the gonads instead of just cutting or tying the tubes. I understand that for some dogs, males especially, they are removed for behavioral reasons. But I have a 4-month-old female, and I am not looking forward to spaying. I also agreed to do so as part of my purchase agreement, but for me the important thing is not to get stuck with puppies, I don't necessarily want to deny her of hormones for the rest of her life.
Vasectomy may be okay for male dogs if they don't have any undesirable behaviors.

Spaying is necessary for female dogs to prevent mammary tumors which can become cancerous. You have next to no risk of mammary tumors if you spay before the first heat, and it is still very low if you let them go through one heat (ideal, imho, because you are letting them fully mature). The risk starts climbing rapidly after that if the bitch is not bred.

I've had spayed and neutered dogs my whole life and none have been affected by being altered--even those who were altered young.
 

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You can read my Frosty thread here about his neuter and pexy. He was 15 mos. old and while I wanted to wait until he was a bit older, his behaviors dictated an earlier neuter.

https://www.poodleforum.com/5-poodle-talk/248818-frosty-getting-snipped-tomorrow.html

ETA: I didn't update at the end of that thread, but because he had laparoscopic surgery, he was cleared for exercise in only 5 days! It was amazing.
We had a terrible time controlling Charlie. He just wanted to race around, acted as if nothing had happened

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They are so resilient after surgery, like kids!
I actually had to take him back to the vet to be re-fittEd with an XXL collar because he is as flexible as an eel and kept licking the stitches! He is meticulous like a cat about his fur. If he gets a burr anywhere in his coat while walking, everything has to stop while he flings himself to the ground and frantically pulls it out

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Discussion Starter #9
My Vet advised me to wait until 14 months. She said new research suggests that early neutering for big breeds like Standards is no longer suggested. Charlie is now 2.5. Years old, is nearly 30 inches at the shoulder, weighs over 80 pounds, all of it lean hard muscle. No people food given, just good quality kibble. Vet very happy with his condition. We travel extensively and have to exercise him at leash free parks. Soon after he was neutered we noticed a huge difference in the unprovoked aggressive behavior of other dogs towards him. He also stopped running after every dog he saw in the distance if he happened to be off leash. As he is intended only to be a pet, we did not hesitate to neuter, is a much better animal for our lifestyle and we did sign a non-breeding agreement as condition of sale anyhow.

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Great info, thank you!!!! I am thinking of doing it when hes 12-14 months. I am glad you had a great experience and have an awesome companion!

I have never seen Norman randomly aggressive, but he is getting more and more protective over me, even if it is my family. I notice that in my room, when I am sleeping, if someone walks by the room, knocks on the door, opens the door he alerts them and me. A "Back Off" bark. Once of course he sees it's family, he will stop.
When we are on walks, he does not like men approaching me, he will always get in between us. Very solid stance until he knows I am ok.

I think my only concern is this protectiveness may get aggressive. Again he has never shown signs, but he is still growing and learning. I have never trained him to go in between me and strangers or any protective techniques.
 

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I agree that waiting is better for him. The peeing on things is something you can work on with training. When Misha first discovered marking he was really bad for about a week. He has lessened a bit over time and I continue to work with him on appropriate places to mark. I allow only on grass or plants, but no artificial objects or buildings. I do not allow things like mailboxes because that's somebody's property and it is gross. If he attempts to mark I say NO and pull him away. I try to catch him before he starts to mark. With Misha I will probably go with a vasectomy if he doesn't have any problematic behaviors like incessant humping or marking indoors. I don't know that I'd neuter for a dog being protective because neutering can increase fear based aggression, which could make the problem worse. I'd work on modifying his response, perhaps by talking in a singsong voice when "scary thing" comes around, to associate happy feelings with it. Like "Oh who's that coming, he looks friendly, too bad we don't have time to chat" to indicate that it is not something to be concerned about. They pick up on your feelings.
 

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Magnum was 7 years old. I never had any problems with him prior to the neuter, but he was not my first dog.

He should be barking/alerting. As per his age, he is beginning to feel less like a puppy and more like an adult, so he is alerting the family, as he should be.
 

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We're thinking about this question too. Our guy is six months old. Our last male poodle was six months old when he was neutered. It had no effect, positive or negative on his behavior. He was somewhat dog aggressive around male dogs and started humping at 8 weeks. He remained a thin dog his entire life. My parents neutered their last two Irish setters only when they started to have bladder infections due to enlarged prostates and never had any behavior problems although the current dog went from underweight to overweight, but that's a behavioral problem 鈥 my mother's behavior.

We were in Europe not too long ago and I was already studying the issue. I saw only one neutered male shorthaired dog (I don't know what equipment the hairy guys had!), all of the rest were not neutered. The neutered dog was a pit. All of those dogs were navigating city life on a leash just fine. Nevertheless, I plan on neutering at adulthood, but only sooner for behavior issues.

One advantage of neutering is decreased body odor. It was really obvious when my parents' late-middle-aged dogs were neutered.
 

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Generally, the science is demonstrating that waiting til physical maturity is best for health outcomes.

Kchen95 recently posted a thread with some breed specific data for poodles.

The link to the thread:

https://www.poodleforum.com/29-poodle-health/271261-study-neutering-spaying-poodles.html

and study:

http://vipoodle.org/wp-content/themes/vip/pdf/research/HartUCDavisPoodles+Report+7-15-16.pdf

For behavior, specifically various types of aggression, there's this study using Canine Behavioral Assessment Research Questionnaire (C-BARQ) as a basis:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5834763/

Skip down to "Discussion" to get the gist.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks everyone!

I think I need to clarify. I am not neutering Norman due to behavior issues because he has none. I am doing it do decrease tons of health risks and because I do not intend on ever breeding him nor do I want a freak accident to happen.
I only mentioned that he was protective when I am sleeping or walking him alone, but this is nothing I am concerned over at this time. I just mentioned the idea of if this could potentially turned into aggression/protection, and I agree with you all that neutering is not the cure for that (IF it happens). Training is the cure!! But thankfully he is not aggressive at all.
Like someone stated in a response, he may sense my energy which I want Norman to know when I am and am not comfortable in a situation. But I need to work on cues and talking to him so he knows that everything is ok! I think this will deter any possibility of aggression.

Thank you all for the advice and input!! I think that I will be neutering him around March of next year (1 year old) when there is a holiday and I can take some time off to be with him, even though I am sure he will bounce back!! I am hoping he stays the same loving, funny, crazy goofball he is. My biggest "fear" is weight gain. Our two girls gained DRASTIC weight, but they are couch potatoes to begin with lol!
 

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Thank you all for the advice and input!! I think that I will be neutering him around March of next year (1 year old) when there is a holiday and I can take some time off to be with him, even though I am sure he will bounce back!! I am hoping he stays the same loving, funny, crazy goofball he is. My biggest "fear" is weight gain. Our two girls gained DRASTIC weight, but they are couch potatoes to begin with lol!
If he's a protective dog, neutering will do nothing to change that. Frosty is still super protective of me and our property despite being neutered.

As for weight gain, I can't imagine a spoo becoming overweight. I've never seen one, and mine are just always the perfect weight.
 

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I've had fat neutered dogs and skinny neutered dogs. Or rather, I've had neutered dogs who would eat anything available and neutered dogs who wouldn't overeat. The secret is portion control for the hearty eaters. My biggest problem with that was when I had two black half-sister spoos, the skinny one would leave food in her bowl and I had to be quick to pick it up or her older sister would profit. Sometimes though I had to look carefully to see who was eating from the skinny girl's bowl especially when they were both in need of a clip
 

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I don't find the health issues related to male dog health to be nearly so compelling as in females (as fjm noted above with the risk for pyometra among other concerns). My Lily is 11 years old and was spayed early with no apparent adverse consequences. Javelin is 4 years old and an intact male. He will stay intact unless there is a medical or behavioral reason to take action, but he will not be bred since his registration is limited. Neutering was not stipulated in his contract.



In Europe and Britain it is my understanding that desexing is fairly uncommon and that people take care not to allow inadvertent breeding. fjm correct me if I am incorrect.
 
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