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Discussion Starter #1
When I was looking for a breeder I was looking for a toy because I felt that from the pictures on the PF the miniatures were rather big. But I really liked this miniature breeder that I found and am now waiting for news of pregnancy. Even though the parents are at the top end of the FCI miniature standard (34cm and 32cm) I feel that from pictures they look smaller than a lot of the minis on the PF.

After seeing a lot of requests on this forum from new US members looking for moyen poodles it made me wonder how many US/UK miniatures would actually be classified as moyen/medium under FCI classifications.

So going by height measurement (not variety of parents) which of the four FCI poodle variety would your poodle fall under?

Standard Poodles: Over 45 cm up to 60 cm (17.7 inches to 23.6 inches) with a tolerance of +2
cm. The Standard Poodle must be the enlarged and developed replica
of the Medium Poodle of which it retains the same characteristics.

Medium Poodles: Over 35 cm up to 45 cm. (13.7 inches to 17.7 inches)

Miniature Poodles: Over 28 cm up to 35 cm. (11 inches to 13.7 inches) The Miniature Poodle
must display the appearance of a reduced Medium Poodle, retaining
as much as possible the same proportions and without presenting any
sign of dwarfism.

Toy Poodles: Over 24 cm (9.4 inches) (with a tolerance of -1cm) up to 28 cm (11 inches)
(sought after ideal: 25 cm). The Toy Poodle maintains, in its
ensemble, the aspect of a Miniature Poodle and the same general
proportions complying with all the points of the standard.
Any sign of dwarfism is excluded; only the external occipital
protuberance may be less pronounced.

PS. I added in the inches conversations to make it easier, I hope they are correct.
 

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Poppy just scrapes into the toy category - and she is definitely a long legged toy in build. The minis I know are much more solid dogs, even when they are only an inch or two taller.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Poppy just scrapes into the toy category - and she is definitely a long legged toy in build. The minis I know are much more solid dogs, even when they are only an inch or two taller.
I know that little poppy has been ill lately but how heavy is she?
 

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I know that little poppy has been ill lately but how heavy is she?
Too heavy - nearly 5 kilos/11lbs. Before the steroids she was around 4.25 kilos/9.35lbs, which was pretty optimal for her build.
 

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Galen would be a standard, as he's 24". American spoos are huge these days. He's one of the smaller ones I know, even though he's the upper end of the defined range. I think the lack of smaller spoos - a dog large enough to be considered a "real dog" but still small enough to be easily picked up - might be contributing to the current fad for doodles. I see a lot of Moyen sized cockapoos and golden doodles in my area. Clearly it's a size that pet buyers like.
 

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Galen would be a standard, as he's 24". American spoos are huge these days. He's one of the smaller ones I know, even though he's the upper end of the defined range. I think the lack of smaller spoos - a dog large enough to be considered a "real dog" but still small enough to be easily picked up - might be contributing to the current fad for doodles. I see a lot of Moyen sized cockapoos and golden doodles in my area. Clearly it's a size that pet buyers like.
Cockapoos are the same size as a large mini just generally fat and heavy boned. People seem to not know miniature poodles exist. I do like the 15-18" range. But I've been very happy with my choice to stay on the low end of this. I think if people had met well bred minis they would go for them over the -poos.
 

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Both of mine would be miniatures (Beckie is a small miniature but Merlin is an oversized toy).
 

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Both of mine are true spoos. Lily is 22 3/4" and Javelin is 24". cowpony most of the spoos I know are in the 20-24" range. I see some giants but not so many.
 

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Cockapoos are the same size as a large mini just generally fat and heavy boned. People seem to not know miniature poodles exist. I do like the 15-18" range. But I've been very happy with my choice to stay on the low end of this. I think if people had met well bred minis they would go for them over the -poos.
I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked if Winnie is a cockapoo and they are always surprised when I tell them she's a mini (or medium according to this thread). People tend to remember toys and standards and everything in between must be a something poo.
 

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At 39cm and 10kilos my boy Eden would be a Moyen if you use the above criteria.
At 38cm and 9.9 kilos Finn would also be a Moyen. They’re both 2 now so they should be fully grown. Both are from miniature poodles and I think of them as overgrown miniatures rather than specifically Moyens.
 

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Winnie 10/24/20 standard poodle
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We're in the Standard camp.
Our old girl Indigo was 24" and 45lbs. Our youngster Winnie at 18 weeks is already 19" and almost 30lbs. Both of her parents were perfectly proportioned but large. We could lift Indie no problem....I am almost sure that will not be so easy with Winnie.
Cindy, Winnie's mom 🐾
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It's interesting that a significant number of US/UK minis seem to fall within the moyen range. Its then not really necessary to import 'true moyens' from Europe. Just try to find a mini breeder on the higher end of the breed standard.

Especially considering that in many countries in Europe it is common practice to interbreed between the varieties. Many of the moyens/mediums here probably have mini or standard blood in them anyway.

@Raindrops I was very curious about Misha because when I have watched your videos I always felt like he looked more similar to the European moyens/mediums than miniatures.
 

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@Raindrops I was very curious about Misha because when I have watched your videos I always felt like he looked more similar to the European moyens/mediums than miniatures.
Yes I believe most 14-15" miniatures in the US have type have that look. Misha has head-muzzle proportions that perfectly match the standard so his face looks very correct. I've heard large minis have the most accurate heads according to breed standard. You can find it in smaller dogs but it is harder.
 

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Yes I believe most 14-15" miniatures in the US have type have that look. Misha has head-muzzle proportions that perfectly match the standard so his face looks very correct. I've heard large minis have the most accurate heads according to breed standard. You can find it in smaller dogs but it is harder.
I wonder if this is why Winnie's mum had a different head to her dad. She came from American lines whereas her dad was from UK lineage. I also noticed that Winnie has a little bit if a different head and muzzle to some other mini's I have seen.
 
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