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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hello,
I recently put a deposit on my standard poodle pup and now I’m a little concerned because the breeder called it a “red” poodle and after doing a little research he is most definitely not red or so I think? So I’m so glad I came across the forum, because I know there’s experienced breeders on here that’s going to help me figure this out! My biggest concern with all of this is .. if the breeder cannot proper identify my puppy, how do I truly know what the mom and dad is ? They are telling the mom is a silver and they did not tell me what the dad is, but they did send pictures of the dad .. and he looks black ? I really do not want my puppy to eventually fade into silver or silver beige. The puppy is currently a milk brown.

update: the breeder is saying the mom is a blue poodle. If this is true the dad would be true black and mom blue . What would my puppy be ?
 

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Yep, looks like this pup is brown based, not red based. If the mother is truly silver and the dad is truly black then the pup will fade to cafe au lait. Twyla did a wonderful job documenting her cafe toy poodle's color change over several years. See thread here.
Keep in mind that both red and brown will fade a bit even if the parents aren't silver. My brown parti was dark like an espresso bean when he was young. He had faded to the color of a hazelnut when he died at age 9.
 

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Definitely not a red. I have trouble understanding why or how any breeder would call this red. Do you have pictures of the parents ?
 

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If the mother is silver she should have two copies of the fading gene and therefore this pup will inherit one copy and end up cafe au lait. I would also question whether this is a reputable breeder if a) they are selling a brown dog as a red dog and b) you had to pick your puppy at an extremely young age. Reputable breeders generally pair pups with buyers after 6 weeks of age when the temperaments start to emerge. Most will wait until 7 or 8 weeks as 7 weeks is considered an ideal age for temperament testing. I consider this really important as my dog was a hellhound of a puppy. While I was ready for it and asked for a higher drive pup, he would have been a monster in most pet homes.

I don't mean to make you overly concerned, but these are red flags to me.
 

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The muzzles of a silver or cafe pup should start showing pale hair, which will be more obvious after the first facial trim. The silvers go pale earlier than the cafes. If I squint at the picture I can convince myself I see pale hair, but it's hard to say for sure.

Here is a thread about another pup, Apple. I think she's one of the prettiest puppies I've seen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yep, looks like this pup is brown based, not red based. If the mother is truly silver and the dad is truly black then the pup will fade to cafe au lait. Twyla did a wonderful job documenting her cafe toy poodle's color change over several years. See thread here.
Keep in mind that both red and brown will fade a bit even if the parents aren't silver. My brown parti was dark like an espresso bean when he was young. He had faded to the color of a hazelnut when he died at age 9.
Thank you!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If the mother is silver she should have two copies of the fading gene and therefore this pup will inherit one copy and end up cafe au lait. I would also question whether this is a reputable breeder if a) they are selling a brown dog as a red dog and b) you had to pick your puppy at an extremely young age. Reputable breeders generally pair pups with buyers after 6 weeks of age when the temperaments start to emerge. Most will wait until 7 or 8 weeks as 7 weeks is considered an ideal age for temperament testing. I consider this really important as my dog was a hellhound of a puppy. While I was ready for it and asked for a higher drive pup, he would have been a monster in most pet homes.

I don't mean to make you overly concerned, but these are red flags to me.
Thank you!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The muzzles of a silver or cafe pup should start showing pale hair, which will be more obvious after the first facial trim. The silvers go pale earlier than the cafes. If I squint at the picture I can convince myself I see pale hair, but it's hard to say for sure.

Here is a thread about another pup, Apple. I think she's one of the prettiest puppies I've seen.
Haha! Yes , I think I see silver too . But the breeder is actually saying the mom is a blue poodle now, and the dad is true black. The breeder also stated there’s red and brown pedigree in the bloodline. She reassured me that the mother of the puppy was 4 and HAS NOT cleared to a silver.. and she doesn’t think my puppy will clear to a silver beige. So I will keep you guys posted ! Lol
 

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Peggy Sue, Standard Poodle Born May 2019
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How old is this puppy? He looks quite young. If you are serious about not wanting a certain colour, I would doubly recommend holding off until temperament can be better assessed.

Peggy’s the polar opposite of some of her littermates. You really want to ensure you’re getting matched to the right puppy for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
How old is this puppy? He looks quite young. If you are serious about not wanting a certain colour, I would doubly recommend holding off until temperament can be better assessed.

Peggy’s the polar opposite of some of her littermates. You really want to ensure you’re getting matched to the right puppy for you.
He is currently 3 weeks. I completely agree! I can not wait to see his little personality blossom. I hope it’s a match !!!
 

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Peggy Sue, Standard Poodle Born May 2019
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He is currently 3 weeks. I completely agree! I can not wait to see his little personality blossom. I hope it’s a match !!!
It’s really so much fun watching them grow. :love:

Is this your first poodle? Will you be meeting the pups to make your final choice or relying on the breeder for the assessment?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It’s really so much fun watching them grow. :love:

Is this your first poodle? Will you be meeting the pups to make your final choice or relying on the breeder for the assessment?
This is my first poodle ! And I will be relying on the breeder unfortunately. I really hope this goes well. He’s pretty expensive. Lol
 

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Peggy Sue, Standard Poodle Born May 2019
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This is my first poodle ! And I will be relying on the breeder unfortunately. I really hope this goes well. He’s pretty expensive. Lol
These resources will help set you up for success:


I’d also recommend doing a search for the breeder’s name here, just in case there’s any feedback from experienced poodle folks. If it’s good, it’ll put your mind at ease. If it’s not-so-good, better to know now. :)
 

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And I will be relying on the breeder unfortunately.
That can be a very good thing, even tho it may feel odd. If you and the breeder have discussed the personality and temperament that you want to fit your family's style, the breeder will know the pups well from daily life and find a good match.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
That can be a very good thing, even tho it may feel odd. If you and the breeder have discussed the personality and temperament that you want to fit your family's style, the breeder will know the pups well from daily life and find a good match.
Yes, but unfortunately the breeder is selling the pups based off looks and not temperament so the deposit that I put down is for 1 specific puppy and if he’s not a match at pick up day .. I will not get refunded my money. The bright side to that is ... if I go to pick up my pup and the breeder has available pups left , maybe I can make a better connection with one of the litter mates . And hopefully they allow me to choose another pup.
 

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I understand the excitement of the new puppy. A good breeder doesn’t sell puppies based on colour, sex or before the puppies temperament begins to show. A breeder that sells/advertises puppies and asking for deposits even before the eyes are open are in it for the money and not concerned about the puppies or the buyer. I would never have people pick a puppy based on colour/sex. I evaluate my puppies and pick the perfect puppy for each persons lifestyle. A shy puppy is not going to do well in a family with rambunctious and loud children. A busy playful puppy won’t do well with a person who wants a couch potato either. Personally I would be hesitant to buy a puppy without knowing what it’s temperament is. All puppies are adorable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I understand the excitement of the new puppy. A good breeder doesn’t sell puppies based on colour, sex or before the puppies temperament begins to show. A breeder that sells/advertises puppies and asking for deposits even before the eyes are open are in it for the money and not concerned about the puppies or the buyer. I would never have people pick a puppy based on colour/sex. I evaluate my puppies and pick the perfect puppy for each persons lifestyle. A shy puppy is not going to do well in a family with rambunctious and loud children. A busy playful puppy won’t do well with a person who wants a couch potato either. Personally I would be hesitant to buy a puppy without knowing what it’s temperament is. All puppies are adorable.
Thank you for this advice. The breeder sends me pics and videos every week of the pups progressions.. so hopefully by week 6-7 , I will be able to see if he fits well with my family.
 
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