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Discussion Starter #1
New two year old miniature poodle I'm getting for future breeding.
I am clueless what color he should be classified as, due to I have
a black stud and his shade of color is different. I thought I'd come
here to consult the poodle experts, lol. Someone please help me!




He is getting a makeover when he is officially mine! I hate how he has
no top knot! But he is cute! :p
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Its hard to tell right now with the coat the way it is. What does his current owner say he is?

I would say he is a smutty black.

Is he purebred?
She said the best way she could describe him was a black mixture.
I think his papers say he is black.

Smutty black, huh? I will look into it.

Yes, he is purebred with papers...I think he has just had a very crappy
grooming job performed which throws his looks off. Notice
how they have cut the top knot off and ears are trimmed shortly. :confused:

I'm getting him at a bargain price though and she is giving me a folder
with his reg. papers, shot records, health records, and frontline treatments.

I don't plan on breeding for over a year and after I get him looking better.
 

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I want to say he looks like a smutty blue or black. From what I have read when you get a smutty colored coat like that it's because its poorly bred.

Is that the only photo you have seen of him? Have you seen him in person? Im not sure what kind of a deal this person is making you but he doesn't look like the best bred Poodle. (I know his cut isn't doing him any justice)

Are you just breeding to breed or is there something specific you are looking to get out of it?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I want to say he looks like a smutty blue or black. From what I have read when you get a smutty colored coat like that it's because its poorly bred.

Is that the only photo you have seen of him? Have you seen him in person? Im not sure what kind of a deal this person is making you but he doesn't look like the best bred Poodle. (I know his cut isn't doing him any justice)

Are you just breeding to breed or is there something specific you are looking to get out of it?

Huh, never would of imagined that.:(

I can get some more pictures of him. No I haven't seen him in person
but will next week before getting him. I agree he is not the best looking
bred poodle but he is full blooded. His cut is HORRIBLE.

I was actually going to breed him once to my female just to breed.
 

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Well, have you seens any pics of his parents? That might help determine where he is getting the color from. Is the seller a breeder or just someone who is selling there dog?

I was just thinking if she is a breeder and she has him looking like that maybe it's a puppymill ??? But of course puppymills don't usually let on that they are breeders. Are you meeting the seller somewhere to get the dog?

I was just thinking that could explain the color being smuggy. Puppymills let there dogs breed to littermates, father to daughter and so forth. They just don't care about the dog...just the $$$
 

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Please be careful with breeding this dog if you know nothing about his background. He could have health issues in his background hence the "good deal". Rescues and pounds are full of purebred poodles that were created just to be created. I know everyone has different opinions towards breeding but please think everything through. Good luck with your decision. Keep us posted. BTW, he looks older to me. He looks like a black that has started graying.
 

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Please be careful with breeding this dog if you know nothing about his background. He could have health issues in his background hence the "good deal". Rescues and pounds are full of purebred poodles that were created just to be created. I know everyone has different opinions towards breeding but please think everything through. Good luck with your decision. Keep us posted. BTW, he looks older to me. He looks like a black that has started graying.
I thought that as well, but when she said he was two I figured he was just a bad black.

"just to breed" is never a good reason to breed any animal. Poodles are on of the illest breeds there are because of BYB's Puppymills and folks like you who breed "just to breed"

I have to go right now but I'll post some need to read links for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Angie-

I will check into his background, any suggestions on what questions
I should ask the breeder?

She is going to give me all of his health records upon buying him
including shots,vet visits, frontline treatments, etc. Also, I would
LOVE to adopt a purebred poodle, but in the town I live in there is
no shelter or pound that has any small dogs period just big mutts.
Plus I'm not willing to travel to the nearest shelter over 100 miles away,
gas is already killing me here. Forget me paying hundreds of dollars for
a male miniature that has champion bloodlines or a fancy pedigree and
fancy papers either...I'm too poor for that! LOL!

I promise to think everything through and ask alot of questions to the breeder.

Thanks alot for your honest opinion and suggestions!:D



Purple Poodle-

I said just to breed, but that was a dumb answer...I have my reasons,
I have a baby that will be born soon and kids can be expensive and
my husband can't seem to keep a job...I thought a few puppies would
bring some money into my home, I mean you can't blame me for thinking
of my child first...I don't care what anyone says. Like I told my husband
it will be over a year and 1/2 before we consider breeding this dog to my
poodle if we get him...by then the dog should look alot better with a
proper grooming job and care. I hate people who breed just to breed also,
hence throwing two opposite sex mutts in the backyard without being
spayed and neutered and what do you know...puppies!!

The dog seems to be pretty healthy (hence all the health records and paperwork).
I am NOT looking to breed show quality poodles here.
So what if he is a little shaggy looking? I think the poodles I breed will have
the potential to be a perfect pet only and I'm satisfied with that.:)

Thanks alot for your honest opinion and suggestions!:D


Do you think his coat color could have been sorta bleached from being
out in the sun? I know the sun can have an effect on a black dogs
coat sometimes. Looking at him, I really don't think he is a blue...too
dark looking to be one to me. Did I mention he looks almost identical
to my other shaggy stud, and my other stud is AKC registered. I think
the grooming job has alot to do with the looks.:confused:
 

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She said the best way she could describe him was a black mixture.
I think his papers say he is black.

Smutty black, huh? I will look into it.

Yes, he is purebred with papers...I think he has just had a very crappy
grooming job performed which throws his looks off. Notice
how they have cut the top knot off and ears are trimmed shortly. :confused:

I'm getting him at a bargain price though and she is giving me a folder
with his reg. papers, shot records, health records, and frontline treatments.

I don't plan on breeding for over a year and after I get him looking better.
OMG, are you serious. You are buying him cause he is a bargain price :confused: Sorry but he really isnt quality and I really hate ppl breeding just for the sake of breeding. Its not a case of I have a female and I have a male, so I can put them together. Do your research, find what would match your bitchs line. Sheeesh, sorry these type of things ppl do really get up my skirt.

Huh, never would of imagined that.:(

I can get some more pictures of him. No I haven't seen him in person
but will next week before getting him. I agree he is not the best looking
bred poodle but he is full blooded. His cut is HORRIBLE.

I was actually going to breed him once to my female just to breed.
Wow, thats a bloody good reason to breed :rolleyes: Who cares if he is full blooded. Seems like you really need to research, learn about breeding, genes and genetics, what makes a good speciman of the breed before you even think about breeding. You do realise you breed to improve dont you ??
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Sivaro-

please read my previous post above your own.
I understand where everyone is coming from, but understand where I am
coming from also, I realize I gave a crappy answer to why I wanted to breed earlier
in the thread. I realize your post was to inform me though.

I'm not here to fight with ANYONE or really to argue either.

ALSO!!!!!! To make everyone happy...i asked the lady alot of questions!
This is what I asked:


1.) What color was his Dam and Sire?

2.) Is he absolutely purebred?

3.) Does he have a Pedigree or am I capable of getting a pedigree on him?

4.) Does he have any health issues or health issues in his background with his Dam, Sire, etc that you know of?

5.) What day, month, and year was he born exactly?

6.) Have you had the top knot (hair on top of the head) and his ears trimmed?

7.) What all will I receive that comes with him prior to purchasing him?

8.) Will he be bathed and groomed the day upon arrival of getting him?

9.) Any fleas?

10.) Any pictures of his Dam and Sire?

11.) Has he ever been bred to another poodle before? Any pictures of the offspring?

12.) All shots are up to date?

13.) When was his last vet visit and what was he there for?

14.) How long have you owned this dog for and where did you get him from?

Any other questions I should ask?
 

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Mercymoon,

Sorry, sometimes things get a little contentious around here. People have very strong opinions about poodles. :)

I understand your situation and your motivation for wanting to buy this dog and breed him. One question that I have is how much money you'll actually make from selling the pups. After all, you'll be feeding this new dog, plus vet bills, plus caring for the pups until they are old enough to sell. I imagine you won't be able to get a super-high price for them, certainly not a show price.

Someone else who has more experience with this sort of thing can maybe shed a little more light on it. It is my impression that most breeders don't make much money -- that money is not their main motivation. You might be better off finding a job that you can do at home from your computer.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Mercymoon,

Sorry, sometimes things get a little contentious around here. People have very strong opinions about poodles. :)

I understand your situation and your motivation for wanting to buy this dog and breed him. One question that I have is how much money you'll actually make from selling the pups. After all, you'll be feeding this new dog, plus vet bills, plus caring for the pups until they are old enough to sell. I imagine you won't be able to get a super-high price for them, certainly not a show price.

Someone else who has more experience with this sort of thing can maybe shed a little more light on it. It is my impression that most breeders don't make much money -- that money is not their main motivation. You might be better off finding a job that you can do at home from your computer.
Aww thanks...seriously I needed it!

Lets see, my grandpa's girlfriend is a breeder and she was making $250
on my bitches litter mates and they went FAST , but I just wanted to
try breeding myself at least once, not JUST for the money but for the
joy of bringing puppies into my home and finding loving homes for them. :)

My husband is looking for a job and I am going to start looking as well
I think, by time I will be ready to breed...I think everything will be working
out fine. We do have 3 other dogs beside my bitch and they are fat
and healthy, so we do get by. We do have food stamps and I have
a medicaid card... so were poor and never see alot of money.:(

Thanks so much for not giving me a hard time, I haven't even got the
dog yet and I'm touching nerves on here, lol.
 

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Please please please do not breed this dog. Breeding is NOT a good way to make money.

Breeding is NOT profitable and can be very very risky! If anything goes wrong, you could wind up with a dead female and very expensive vet bills.

Here are some costs that you might not have thought about:
Pre breeding exams for both dogs ~$100
Xrays of pregnant dog ~$150+
Extra food and vitamins for the bitch ~$100
Whelping box, water bottles, and misc supplies ~$100
Office visit to examine puppies ~$75+
Removal of dewclaws for each pup ~$25+ x number of pups
Vaccinations for each pup ~$25+ x number of pups
Puppy food ~$100+
Worming each puppy ~25+ x number of pups
Time off work to raise puppies ~??$
Possible c-section ~$500
Advertising to sell the puppies

What if you only end up having 1 or 2 pups? Then you'll have invested likely over 800 dollars and be lucky if you can sell them for 400. You mentioned that you can't afford a purebred papered animal, well can you afford to shell out nearly a thousand dollars as a gamble?

You can also bet on at least one puppy not surviving. None of this is even taking into consideration the cost of health screening that SHOULD be done if you don't want to be labelled as a terrible back yard breeder. There is a pet overpopulation problem and you could be breeding animals with horrible genetic faults. We already know that the dog you're thinking about purchasing has faults as a poodle just from seeing one awful picture. A nice haircut isn't going to make that dog look like a star.

I don't think you realize the large cost of having the puppies. Even if you were easily able to find homes for them at 250 each, you aren't taking into consideration all that goes into it. Do you realize how much time you'll have to invest in all of this? A 2 month stint working at taco bell would probably pay more than trying to have a litter of puppies.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
You mentioned that you can't afford a purebred papered animal, well can you afford to shell out nearly a thousand dollars as a gamble?
Where did I mention I couldn't afford a purebred papered dog? The
dog is purebred and has papers, my bitch is purebred, papered and
comes from a nice lineage. I stated I am not willing to pay hundreds
of dollars for a FANCY show quality papered purebred dog.

Also, no offense but I don't think hardly any breeders in this state get
all of that or if any of that done you listed, I can see some of it
being done worming, food, vet visits, shots, the necessary, etc.

I personally like the dog and getting him will be my choice and money
out of my own pocket, getting him may be a mistake but if that's the
case it will be my own fault. I also don't think he looks awful at all.

Breeding is also just a consideration I may choose to buy the
dog and get him neutered and just keep him as a pet because
I just generally like poodles and want another one. Puppies
is something I'm considering for the future, she may not even
breed to this dog but another stud instead.

I swear I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I'm just naturally defensive.

I'm also about ready to close this thread....all I wanted to know
was what color the dang dog was and it led to all of this.
 

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Hum... I don't know, but if times are that tough my first thought isn't to buy another Poodle for a breeding in the future. Seems like you may feel defensive about what your plan is since it's not a responsible decision.

I think you have realized now that most of the people here on this forum want the best for the breed. Not what's best for there income.

For the dog having shot records and vet receipts ..... big deal. Most dogs do when you buy them. Of course, you will make your own decision and do as you please but when I hear about someone breeding just breed you bet your going to hear my opinion. I was trying to be as pleasant as possible prior but the more you say the less I like.

FYI .... You should normally wait until a bitch is 2 yrs before even consider breeding. They are not fully matured at a 1 1/2 yrs and are still practically a puppy.
 

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Any time you mention breeding a dog on a dog fourm you will get concerned people posting. ;)

First of all what you call "fancy" show dogs are not just a piece of fluff running around a ring those dogs are bred to be the best and compete against the standard to see just how great of a dog they are.

Second all of the testing Kela suggested is necessary. There are so many health issues in Poodles its not even funny. Just because you are not breeding for the ring does not mean you should not breed for quality. If you do breed this dog with out getting the proper heath tests done is no better then breeding a mutt.

Those are good questions to ask the breeder I would also ask the breeder what Kennel Club he is registered with.

FYI just because the dog has "papers" does not mean it is worth breeding.

Here are a couple of links I think you should look over before breeding your bitch.

Required health testing via the VIP
http://www.vipoodle.org/docs/gnts_mt.htm

All about breeding any dog
http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/breeding.html
 

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Forget me paying hundreds of dollars for
a male miniature that has champion bloodlines or a fancy pedigree and
fancy papers either...I'm too poor for that! LOL!
This is the phrase I was commenting on, I did not phrase it well. Yes your dog has papers of some kind and might be pure bred. LOTS of dogs have papers. Dogs from pet stores have papers and you definitely would not want to breed one of those.

You said you were too poor to afford a dog with champion bloodlines. These dogs are champions because they were genetically screened, health tested, and conform to the breed standard. A champion bloodline animal will cost between 500 and 2500 dollars. Similarly, this is the amount of money you will put into breeding the dog.

Even if you do it BADLY (which you have mentioned you may do as you don't feel some things are necessary) you will STILL put in at least 500 dollars. AT LEAST! The average litter size is 4 for a second breed. The FIRST breed is usually less! And the chance that at least one puppy will die is about 25%. So you're looking at a liklihood of 2 sellable puppies.

2 puppies at 250 each is 500 dollars.

Guess how much money you spent getting those 2 puppies? 500 dollars. How much is the male costing you? Add that to the figure. How much did not working for 2 months cost you?

If you are on food stamps, breeding animals for profit is absolutely not the way to approach the subject. You are only setting yourself up for heartbreak.

Please read the links that Purple Poodle posted!
 
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