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As a nurse, I am sure you see terrible things on a regular basis. Accidents happen, genetic disorders happen, contagious diseases are out there.

When a puppy is vaccinated, doesn't it mean it has protection from getting parvo? Imay be wrong, but I think my vet said 2 weeks after the first shot was fine to go out with the puppy - stay away from the dog park. It wasn't a matter of exposure in a regular public place - even a pet store. A dog park is much more intense - concentrated. If you are in a building and a few people you haven't met have a cold, chances are good you will not get a cold. If the same number of people who were in the building with the same number with a cold, and they are on an airplane for 3 hours, I bet the chances of getting a cold increase many times.

I know a lot of people are germaphobes (sp?), I am not one of them. I believe if we live our lives constantly disinfecting everything we come across, we will not have an immune system to prevent getting a cold.

I had Luce in puppy class the day after I got her - she was 8 weeks 4 days or so. I took her to Petco for classes, took her in our back yard and walked in the neighborhood - very short walks since she was so small at 2 1/2 pounds.

I did NOT take her to the dog park until she was 6 months, we did have play dates with a neighbors dogs.

To sum it up, I think most of the people are saying take you dog out to NON dog places and be careful. I take mine to the garden center, bank, Home Depot and Lowes, Half Price Books, and any place that is OK with the managers. You can call in advance and ask if you can bring your pup in.

When the vet and media say Parvo is rampant, have vaccinated puppies contracted it?
 

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I have an undersocialized dog and I would do anything to go back to puppyhood and be able to take him outside for those critical 8-16 weeks. Unfortunately I got him when he was 16 months old.

My dog is the most fearful thing I have ever seen. He lives in a world of constant fear and anxiety. I don't wish that for any dog. He had seen lots of people inside the house, but never been outside.

Staying inside of the walls of your house is not teaching your puppy much as far as being comfortable with different situations, sounds, and sights. What's in your house is pretty much static. And going to pee just outside the door is not going to do it either.

Go read up on undersocialized dogs, or see my posts, and you'll know you don't want this for your puppy, or yourself. It is very stressful for the dog and frustrating for the owner, to say the least.


I totally agree, however, there is quite a bit of age difference from 16 weeks to 16 months. I agree that a puppy needs to get started on those socializing skills at a young age, but I think it really comes down to this.... an owner saying to themselves, "okay, I'm going to take the dog out and just hope that he doesn't get sick", to, "okay, I'm going to wait a couple more weeks to make sure he's fully vaccinated, and then I'll feel right about taking my dog out". If it were me, I would rather be safe than sorry. It's only 2 or possibly 3 weeks longer. I don't see how a puppy could lose all of his life social skills in waiting 2 or 3 weeks longer.

It's been a very long time since I've had a puppy, but if I'm remembering correctly, I waited until my dogs were fully vaccinated, and they all turned out very sociable ( except for Trina, but I believe that was because of her seizures). I do remember having some get togethers at my home, starting when Kaydee was about 10 weeks. Had a few friends over and they brought their dogs because I wanted Kaydee to start knowing about other people and dogs. It went well, and even turned out to be a regular thing for a little while.
For my dogs, and my peace of mind, I'm glad that I waited. To each his own.
 

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Some of the opinions seemed a little intense to me too.......
If Parvovirus is of that big of a concern then I think Joey would probably be wise to play it on the safe side and not bring his (his or her?) pup out in public until he feels it's safe to do so.
I too have had many dogs throughout my life and have never intentionally "socialized" my pups to the degree that some of you are insisting is so important. They have all been exposed to the normal hustle bustle of life, which is good, but I have never worried about purposely socializing them like you are all talking about. They have all turned out to be great dogs with no behavioural problems, so obviously I did something right?
Yes, totally agree. Thank you for this post!
 

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I totally agree, however, there is quite a bit of age difference from 16 weeks to 16 months. I agree that a puppy needs to get started on those socializing skills at a young age, but I think it really comes down to this.... an owner saying to themselves, "okay, I'm going to take the dog out and just hope that he doesn't get sick", to, "okay, I'm going to wait a couple more weeks to make sure he's fully vaccinated, and then I'll feel right about taking my dog out". If it were me, I would rather be safe than sorry. It's only 2 or possibly 3 weeks longer. I don't see how a puppy could lose all of his life social skills in waiting 2 or 3 weeks longer.

It's been a very long time since I've had a puppy, but if I'm remembering correctly, I waited until my dogs were fully vaccinated, and they all turned out very sociable ( except for Trina, but I believe that was because of her seizures). I do remember having some get togethers at my home, starting when Kaydee was about 10 weeks. Had a few friends over and they brought their dogs because I wanted Kaydee to start knowing about other people and dogs. It went well, and even turned out to be a regular thing for a little while.
For my dogs, and my peace of mind, I'm glad that I waited. To each his own.
I agree with you. My situation would be the extreme example. The worse that could happen when an already timid dog doesn't get exposed to the outside at all before adulthood.
 

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Pup etc etc

I suppose the word would be ganged up on sorry I used the word hated, the point of the topic got lost but its ok I took something away, I agree about trying to get some socialization in, whatever I can squeeze in safely...well I've taken her a few places without great success, she is afraid of everything outside our house and yard. We went for a walk and she froze, so I picked her up, she squirmed and went nuts until I turned around and went back we did do two blocks. She successfully was great with a couple of my friends who came for puppy play time but still mouthing and biting, one friend who has a dog but the dog is bad with other dogs, the other friend no dogs. She met a dog on the street, was a huge pit bull x of some kind that wants rough with her and so I picked her up...all and all she came home exhausted quiet and is now having a nap. I'm really not sure what to make of this. I feel maybe I made a bad choice with agreeing to taking her home so early because besides the socialization there are other things I"m working on with her that the breeder failed to do by giving her to me at 7 weeks. And I'm home with her all day I don't know what I'd be doing if I had to work all day. House breaking her, inhibit her mouthing which is SEVERE she's broken skin and caused puncture wounds and bleeding, this is my main concern right now, I work on both all day long, along with trying to train her the basics and now need to get her use to grooming her and bathing her, and get her use to the grooming tools...getting her use to being alone in her crate without screaming and barking for an hour...thanks to those who provided some constructive criticism I hope the fear of walking is a phase..
 

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Thats the other issue my house borders on a dog park any given day you see a number of people walking their dogs who drive to the park to walk their dogs, so it is a high traffic area. Its not that I cannot take her to other areas which i've already done its that I'd like to take her around my house, but waiting two weeks until her last booster doesn't seem too far off. I do actually take people's advice here I find lots of helpful tips and tricks its just this one incident has me concerned because the vet is concerned and other vets are concerned by the alarming numbers of innocent dogs getting parvo. So with that said all I wanted to know was if there was someone out there who socialized there dog later on, could be for a variety of reasons. I know others feel it is doable in light of having a parvo outbreak, but I feel that I would be putting my 10 week old pup at harms way so I'm trying to find ways around it. And no I don't live in the US so maybe that's a factor too. We have different laws here and you cannot just take a dog anywhere, dogs are banned from many places so socializing your dog to areas where there would be low dog traffic are limited. But I do appreciate the advice, and no I'm really not making excuses, just trying to find a balance between socialization and taking veterinarian advice.

Well I did not get my Timi until she was 14 weeks old, until then she was with her breeder, and she was "bomb-proof" from the moment that she walked in the door, it was just her temperament. If you happen to have a puppy like Timi, then I don't think that limiting the early socialization will have an impact, but if the temperament is not as solid, then the sooner you begin to work with them the better.
I did not catch how big your puppy is, but at 7 weeks it can't weigh that much - if you don't want to use a stroller or a carrier then why not carry it? Even if it cannot put it's feet on the ground, the different sights, smells, and noises are a huge part of the socialization process!
 

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I suppose the word would be ganged up on sorry I used the word hated, the point of the topic got lost but its ok I took something away, I agree about trying to get some socialization in, whatever I can squeeze in safely...well I've taken her a few places without great success, she is afraid of everything outside our house and yard. We went for a walk and she froze, so I picked her up, she squirmed and went nuts until I turned around and went back we did do two blocks. She successfully was great with a couple of my friends who came for puppy play time but still mouthing and biting, one friend who has a dog but the dog is bad with other dogs, the other friend no dogs. She met a dog on the street, was a huge pit bull x of some kind that wants rough with her and so I picked her up...all and all she came home exhausted quiet and is now having a nap. I'm really not sure what to make of this. I feel maybe I made a bad choice with agreeing to taking her home so early because besides the socialization there are other things I"m working on with her that the breeder failed to do by giving her to me at 7 weeks. And I'm home with her all day I don't know what I'd be doing if I had to work all day. House breaking her, inhibit her mouthing which is SEVERE she's broken skin and caused puncture wounds and bleeding, this is my main concern right now, I work on both all day long, along with trying to train her the basics and now need to get her use to grooming her and bathing her, and get her use to the grooming tools...getting her use to being alone in her crate without screaming and barking for an hour...thanks to those who provided some constructive criticism I hope the fear of walking is a phase..

Raising a puppy is difficult, there is no getting around that. I started 7 weeks later with my girl than you and still had all of the same issues. For the first six months I must have muttered "I am too old for this, never again, this is my last puppy" a hundred times a day. But now I am sitting here with the most perfect 19 month old dog on my lap as I type this, and am contemplating doing it just one more time, so trust me when I tell you - the first few months are hell, but if you stick with it, you will see your reward for your efforts - totally worth it!
 

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joey1967, I am sorry you felt ganged up on. I guess some of us do come off strongly about things that we feel passionately over. Clearly we all understand that you want a good outcome for your pup. If you didn't you wouldn't be posting questions.

Lily was 7 weeks old and Javelin was 8 weeks old when we brought them home. Peeves also was only 7 weeks old when we brought him home. I think that when breeders of larger dogs have large litters they feel that 7-8 weeks is the right time to send them home so that they get individual attention in their new families. Also your situation is what it is, so rather than complaining about lemons with the breeder having you bring her home early it is time to make lemonade.

I am reading between the lines but it sounds like your girl is a bit more like Lily was as a puppy than Javelin is. She was very high energy and made holes in clothes, ruined shoes and left punctures in skin for quite a long while. The one thing that I found that helped that was to diffuse my anxieties about her behavior. Once I relaxed she relaxed and a lot of that crazy behavior just washed away by itself. I am sure you have some frustration with her since you've expressed it in your posts.

You have considerable work to do, but you can do it. I am sure that I speak for everyone who has taken the time to post here when I say we all want you to succeed.

Here are my suggestions based on your most recent post.

1. Get tough about her being able to settle herself in the crate. She needs to learn how to be independent and keep herself happy. If it means a couple of days of "screaming" so be it. Put her in the crate with something really lovely to chew on, close the door and leave. If you hear that she is quiet even just for a little bit of time go back and tell her she is a good girl and if she is reasonably relaxed let her out. Repeat as needed until she can remain quietly in her crate for as long as you want. For a puppy the age of yours that should be an hour or two.

2. Carry her with you to places like big box pet stores, home improvement stores, etc. Bed, Bath and Beyond near me was very happy to have javelin in the store. Put her in the shopping cart so she is up high enough for the people not to all seem gigantic and for the aisles to look like mountains. Encourage people who look like they have common sense to greet her. Javelin has walked around the big pet stores since he was about nine weeks old. I have made sure that he didn't sniff or lick anything and I have also steered clear of face to face greetings with adult dogs I didn't know until he was about 16-17 weeks old. He is now 20 weeks and weighs over 33 pounds so carrying him is no longer an option, but he still sits in the cart if he can't be walking where we are.

3. I know you probably don't want to do this part, but get her into a class now if at all possible. In a puppy only class there will usually be a disinfectant tray for people to walk through to reduce risk of tracking in parvo and other nasties. At my club, when we run a puppy beginner class we only allow puppies who are under 18 weeks old at the start of the class. You still have reasonable social learning opportunities if you start by then. It is important to pick carefully when you have her meet older dogs (as you have already seen for your self), so meeting other young dogs is vitally important.

Again I wish you success.
 

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joey1967, I am sorry you felt ganged up on. I guess some of us do come off strongly about things that we feel passionately over. Clearly we all understand that you want a good outcome for your pup. If you didn't you wouldn't be posting questions.

Lily was 7 weeks old and Javelin was 8 weeks old when we brought them home. Peeves also was only 7 weeks old when we brought him home. I think that when breeders of larger dogs have large litters they feel that 7-8 weeks is the right time to send them home so that they get individual attention in their new families. Also your situation is what it is, so rather than complaining about lemons with the breeder having you bring her home early it is time to make lemonade.

I am reading between the lines but it sounds like your girl is a bit more like Lily was as a puppy than Javelin is. She was very high energy and made holes in clothes, ruined shoes and left punctures in skin for quite a long while. The one thing that I found that helped that was to diffuse my anxieties about her behavior. Once I relaxed she relaxed and a lot of that crazy behavior just washed away by itself. I am sure you have some frustration with her since you've expressed it in your posts.

You have considerable work to do, but you can do it. I am sure that I speak for everyone who has taken the time to post here when I say we all want you to succeed.

Here are my suggestions based on your most recent post.

1. Get tough about her being able to settle herself in the crate. She needs to learn how to be independent and keep herself happy. If it means a couple of days of "screaming" so be it. Put her in the crate with something really lovely to chew on, close the door and leave. If you hear that she is quiet even just for a little bit of time go back and tell her she is a good girl and if she is reasonably relaxed let her out. Repeat as needed until she can remain quietly in her crate for as long as you want. For a puppy the age of yours that should be an hour or two.

2. Carry her with you to places like big box pet stores, home improvement stores, etc. Bed, Bath and Beyond near me was very happy to have javelin in the store. Put her in the shopping cart so she is up high enough for the people not to all seem gigantic and for the aisles to look like mountains. Encourage people who look like they have common sense to greet her. Javelin has walked around the big pet stores since he was about nine weeks old. I have made sure that he didn't sniff or lick anything and I have also steered clear of face to face greetings with adult dogs I didn't know until he was about 16-17 weeks old. He is now 20 weeks and weighs over 33 pounds so carrying him is no longer an option, but he still sits in the cart if he can't be walking where we are.

3. I know you probably don't want to do this part, but get her into a class now if at all possible. In a puppy only class there will usually be a disinfectant tray for people to walk through to reduce risk of tracking in parvo and other nasties. At my club, when we run a puppy beginner class we only allow puppies who are under 18 weeks old at the start of the class. You still have reasonable social learning opportunities if you start by then. It is important to pick carefully when you have her meet older dogs (as you have already seen for your self), so meeting other young dogs is vitally important.

Again I wish you success.

Only one thing that I disagree with - other puppies, rather than fully vaccinated adults are much more likely harborers of parvo.
I never let my dogs anywhere around other puppies until 10 -14 days after the last vaccine!
 

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Tiny Poodles you are correct, but if disinfectant precautions are taken and the first round of vaccinations are done the risk is low whether the contacts are adult dogs or other puppies.
 

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Tiny Poodles you are correct, but if disinfectant precautions are taken and the first round of vaccinations are done the risk is low whether the contacts are adult dogs or other puppies.

No, I think puppies are worse - they might have come from the breeder incubating, the vaccine might have failed because of maternal antibodies, and the immunity from the vaccines could have dropped (the reason that they get a series is because the immunity can drop until they have reached certain age), but it is close to certain that a dog vaccinated at 16 weeks will have immunity, and an adult dog who has had their one year booster will virtually certainly have immunity, so a vaccinated adult is much less likely to be incubating than a young puppy would.
 

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Joey, I hope all goes well for you and your puppy and will come back and let us know how things are going.
 

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I suppose the word would be ganged up on sorry I used the word hated, the point of the topic got lost but its ok I took something away, I agree about trying to get some socialization in, whatever I can squeeze in safely...well I've taken her a few places without great success, she is afraid of everything outside our house and yard. We went for a walk and she froze, so I picked her up, she squirmed and went nuts until I turned around and went back we did do two blocks. She successfully was great with a couple of my friends who came for puppy play time but still mouthing and biting, one friend who has a dog but the dog is bad with other dogs, the other friend no dogs. She met a dog on the street, was a huge pit bull x of some kind that wants rough with her and so I picked her up...all and all she came home exhausted quiet and is now having a nap. I'm really not sure what to make of this. I feel maybe I made a bad choice with agreeing to taking her home so early because besides the socialization there are other things I"m working on with her that the breeder failed to do by giving her to me at 7 weeks. And I'm home with her all day I don't know what I'd be doing if I had to work all day. House breaking her, inhibit her mouthing which is SEVERE she's broken skin and caused puncture wounds and bleeding, this is my main concern right now, I work on both all day long, along with trying to train her the basics and now need to get her use to grooming her and bathing her, and get her use to the grooming tools...getting her use to being alone in her crate without screaming and barking for an hour...thanks to those who provided some constructive criticism I hope the fear of walking is a phase..

I agree that 7 weeks is too early to bring home a puppy, but now that you've got her, you and she will work things out. Just take it slow. It sounds like she's not ready to be out in the great big world. She IS only 7 weeks. I think you're doing fine with her, not pressing her to go outside is she's too fearful. The puppy play time sounds like a good thing, so maybe continue trying something like that, but only with smaller dogs.

She's a baby, and what she needs is your love and attention, and not trying out new things too quickly. When she's 10-11 weeks old, she'll have more confidence. It could also be that she's picking up on your nervousness, and that makes her nervous. So I say, for now, just go slow, and do things that you both will enjoy, that is low-key, yet fun to do.
Good luck!
 

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I cannot give good advise here, as I always have my dogs in a stroller or carry them when in public, because they are so small. They go everywhere with me. They never lay on the ground, I take a blanket and they stay on that where ever I go with them. They are 3 and 6.5 pounds so they exercise well inside the house. I worry about diseases but also the fear of a larger dog getting to them. I am over protective, but to old to change and have been that way with all 7 of them over the years.
 

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I cannot give good advise here, as I always have my dogs in a stroller or carry them when in public, because they are so small. They go everywhere with me. They never lay on the ground, I take a blanket and they stay on that where ever I go with them. They are 3 and 6.5 pounds so they exercise well inside the house. I worry about diseases but also the fear of a larger dog getting to them. I am over protective, but to old to change and have been that way with all 7 of them over the years.

There's nothing wrong with that! Since that has worked for you and your dogs, then that's great. I personally wouldn't have the real tiny ones, but that's just me. During those years of hiking and camping with our dogs, Chipper was 6 & 1/2 lbs, Tuffy was 8 lbs and Trixie was 6 lbs. I loved it when we went to the beach and my Poodles would dig around and play in the sand. So much fun---for all of us! Our dogs went on hiking trips too, and they loved sniffing new things, and really loved the outdoors. When Trixie got tired of walking, I would carry her in a front pack, but you would never see the boys wanting to be carried. We backpacked into the wilderness one time and my husband, Chipper, and myself all slept in a little pup tent high up in the mountains. Beautiful, wonderful memories! :)
 

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No, I think puppies are worse - they might have come from the breeder incubating, the vaccine might have failed because of maternal antibodies, and the immunity from the vaccines could have dropped (the reason that they get a series is because the immunity can drop until they have reached certain age), but it is close to certain that a dog vaccinated at 16 weeks will have immunity, and an adult dog who has had their one year booster will virtually certainly have immunity, so a vaccinated adult is much less likely to be incubating than a young puppy would.

I am operating on the assumption that the pups have received at least one round of shots and didn't arrive at their new homes right before they started the class. Those failures can happen, but as in all things this decision making is based on a risk benefit analysis.
 

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I am operating on the assumption that the pups have received at least one round of shots and didn't arrive at their new homes right before they started the class. Those failures can happen, but as in all things this decision making is based on a risk benefit analysis.

Ahh, but you must remember that not all puppies came reputable breeders - can you really rely upon the vaccination records that a backyard breeder or a puppymill provided to a new owner? I would rely much more on the probability that someone's adult dog has been vaccinated by their private veterinarian.
I think that a puppy is at much greater risk of contracting parvo from another puppy than an adult dog. Even if everything was done correctly, with a puppy there is still a significant chance of vaccine failure or immunity dropping between vaccines, and them incubating the virus, but that is extremely unlikely in a vaccinated adult dog.
 
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