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I am a microbiology professor with a Ph.D. in immunology and I took Javelin and my other dogs out when they were young because I knew the training and socialization opportunities outweighed the risks of parvo. When they were small enough we carried them, when they got too big to be carried they got in the shopping cart. We took them places where the chances of meeting unknown dogs were minimal and also controllable. I understand that you have active parvo in your area, but still think that would not have me sitting in the house staring at my puppy. I gave you a link to an Ian Dunbar piece on exactly this topic earlier in this thread.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but like others have said here you ask for advice and then don't take it. Nobody is going to have had exactly your experience so you have to read the suggestions offered and take the parts out of them that could work for you. You've asked about many different issues here and then offered responses that seem to make excuses for why you can't do any of what is suggested.
 

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I've taken everyone's advice and I do appreciate it, because I'm a nurse I probably err on the side of caution, but I was hoping there were other people out there who may have and a parvo epidemic in there area and was wondering how they handled the situation and what they did with advice they received from both vet and breeder. I think my problem is that my city has an outbreak, persistent problem with parvo that is actively killing dogs and precautions are being put in place to protect pups and the like. Hence the need to put off socializing to a little later. I was hoping to hear from someone who may have gone through something similar with parvo and the situation of socializing a little later than normal. Thanks for all the advice I really do appreciate it.
I had a friend, who, back in the 1980's, took her 9 week old puppy to the park. The dog had had only one shot at that time. She told me that she didn't allow her puppy to run around, but did allow it to get the feel of the grass. She swore that it was only for a few moments, and then she picked the dog up and carried it back home, which was several blocks away.

A couple of days later, the puppy was doing ( as the owner told me), flip-flops. I never did understand exactly what she meant by that, but I could visualize in my mind what it could have meant. The owner rushed the puppy to the vet and the dog died even before getting to the vet. I don't think there were any tests done to see if it was parvo or not, but even to this day, I can remember how devastated the owner was.

So I will ALWAYS say, it's better to be safe than sorry. If you're not totally comfortable in taking the puppy anywhere outside of the home, then don't. Until you're 100% comfortable about it, just allow people and their vaccinated dogs to come to YOUR home, so that the puppy can start learning socializing skills. That's what I have always done, and my dogs turned out just fine.
 

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I am a microbiology professor with a Ph.D. in immunology and I took Javelin and my other dogs out when they were young because I knew the training and socialization opportunities outweighed the risks of parvo. When they were small enough we carried them, when they got too big to be carried they got in the shopping cart. We took them places where the chances of meeting unknown dogs were minimal and also controllable. I understand that you have active parvo in your area, but still think that would not have me sitting in the house staring at my puppy. I gave you a link to an Ian Dunbar piece on exactly this topic earlier in this thread.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but like others have said here you ask for advice and then don't take it. Nobody is going to have had exactly your experience so you have to read the suggestions offered and take the parts out of them that could work for you. You've asked about many different issues here and then offered responses that seem to make excuses for why you can't do any of what is suggested.


You don't sound harsh, but if I may share my feelings on this.... I do can kind of understand where the OP is coming from. Maybe I missed something, but I thought the OP read all of the posts and then thanked everyone for offering their thoughts and advice. If she doesn't want to take anyone's advice, then that's her business. After all, it is her dog, and she should do what she feels is best---for her and her dog. The way I look at it is, there are so many people who read PF, and if my advice doesn't help one person, then maybe it will help other people who read it.

For me on PF, it's all about sharing what I think, and sharing what has worked for my dogs. After once I share that, then I go on to other things. If they don't want to take my advice, it doesn't matter to me.

Sorry, but that's my way of thinking. :)
 

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I got her at 12 weeks and honestly, immediately.

More dogs die from improper socialization and being put in shelters and euthanized than die of parvo, at least in the US. It's really not something I worry about.

I didn't take her to a dog park of course, but I had absolutely no qualms taking her on walks around our residence. Though there are lots of dogs in my area, there are very few that live in my complex.
 

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My breeder was adamant about avoiding high dog traffic areas until all vaccinations were complete and the vet agreed with her. Parvo is a big problem in Texas. I took Buck places like my bank, Starbucks, invited friends to my house with their dogs, started at home obedience classes. I erred on the side of caution - no dog parks, no Petco even in a cart, and not a paw on my street which is a popular dog walking route.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Taking Pup outside of home

My breeder was adamant about avoiding high dog traffic areas until all vaccinations were complete and the vet agreed with her. Parvo is a big problem in Texas. I took Buck places like my bank, Starbucks, invited friends to my house with their dogs, started at home obedience classes. I erred on the side of caution - no dog parks, no Petco even in a cart, and not a paw on my street which is a popular dog walking route.

Thats the other issue my house borders on a dog park any given day you see a number of people walking their dogs who drive to the park to walk their dogs, so it is a high traffic area. Its not that I cannot take her to other areas which i've already done its that I'd like to take her around my house, but waiting two weeks until her last booster doesn't seem too far off. I do actually take people's advice here I find lots of helpful tips and tricks its just this one incident has me concerned because the vet is concerned and other vets are concerned by the alarming numbers of innocent dogs getting parvo. So with that said all I wanted to know was if there was someone out there who socialized there dog later on, could be for a variety of reasons. I know others feel it is doable in light of having a parvo outbreak, but I feel that I would be putting my 10 week old pup at harms way so I'm trying to find ways around it. And no I don't live in the US so maybe that's a factor too. We have different laws here and you cannot just take a dog anywhere, dogs are banned from many places so socializing your dog to areas where there would be low dog traffic are limited. But I do appreciate the advice, and no I'm really not making excuses, just trying to find a balance between socialization and taking veterinarian advice.
 

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I have an undersocialized dog and I would do anything to go back to puppyhood and be able to take him outside for those critical 8-16 weeks. Unfortunately I got him when he was 16 months old.

My dog is the most fearful thing I have ever seen. He lives in a world of constant fear and anxiety. I don't wish that for any dog. He had seen lots of people inside the house, but never been outside.

Staying inside of the walls of your house is not teaching your puppy much as far as being comfortable with different situations, sounds, and sights. What's in your house is pretty much static. And going to pee just outside the door is not going to do it either.

Go read up on undersocialized dogs, or see my posts, and you'll know you don't want this for your puppy, or yourself. It is very stressful for the dog and frustrating for the owner, to say the least.
 

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You entitled this thread "what age to take pup off property" and that is why you are getting so many posts about how important it is to take your pup out to meet people. It would seem you have already decided at what age you will take your pup out of your house. None of our suggestions seem to be helpful to you.

I was going to suggest that you start a new thread about how to socialize your dog once he has all his vaccinations and maybe you will want to do that. But I am getting the feeling that (1) we do not understand the environment you live in and a lot of our suggestions may not apply to you and (2) you are not being creative enough in finding ways to socialize your puppy.

I believe you started this thread in the hopes that people would tell you it was ok not to socialize your pup until she was fully immunized because that was what you intended to do. You might want to think more about what you entitle your threads so you get more of the responses you are looking for.

ETA - After rereading your last reply, it would seem your only issue is whether or not to walk your dog in your neighborhood until after shots. Well, I think all would agree that is not a good idea with the dog traffic. Our only concern was that your puppy wasn't getting out to meet people at all. I am really not sure if you said you were doing that or not.
 

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Thats the other issue my house borders on a dog park any given day you see a number of people walking their dogs who drive to the park to walk their dogs, so it is a high traffic area. Its not that I cannot take her to other areas which i've already done its that I'd like to take her around my house, but waiting two weeks until her last booster doesn't seem too far off. I do actually take people's advice here I find lots of helpful tips and tricks its just this one incident has me concerned because the vet is concerned and other vets are concerned by the alarming numbers of innocent dogs getting parvo. So with that said all I wanted to know was if there was someone out there who socialized there dog later on, could be for a variety of reasons. I know others feel it is doable in light of having a parvo outbreak, but I feel that I would be putting my 10 week old pup at harms way so I'm trying to find ways around it. And no I don't live in the US so maybe that's a factor too. We have different laws here and you cannot just take a dog anywhere, dogs are banned from many places so socializing your dog to areas where there would be low dog traffic are limited. But I do appreciate the advice, and no I'm really not making excuses, just trying to find a balance between socialization and taking veterinarian advice.



This makes me so sad.
 

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Pup etc

Well, like someone else said, our comments are now recorded in the forum so they may someday help another, more receptive person searching through for advice on socializing a puppy. :act-up:
The entire thread of this conversation got lost somewhere, and since I feel its just not worth reiterating or trying to explain what the point was since so many people feel like haters at the moment, I'll just let it go but if you want some background on my pup look at my past posts. Rest assured I love my pup to pieces and have been taking care of her since 7 weeks when the breeder force ably relinquished her to my care and want no harm to come to her since she is a little under weight etc. I"m exhausted etc taking care of all her needs right now and was just looking for advice that involved a very particular situation that perhaps no one on here has experienced. I have owned 6 other dogs during my life and do understand the importance of socialization and all dogs have turned out with NO problems. That being said perhaps I'll just take a break from this forum. Thanks.
 

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Joey, I'm sorry you feel you have to leave. I am a bit surprised by the intensity of some of the posts. The bottom line is we don't have to agree but it is your puppy and your decision. I think you sound like a very caring and concerned owner and you are just trying to do what is right for your pup. Parvo scares the heck out of me too. Where I live there are ways around it. I am sure you will do your best to socialize your pup when the time is right for you. I do feel socialization is important and it seems you do too or you wouldn't have made this post. Again, I understand the opinions, I just don't understand the apparent anger it has brought.

I truly hope all goes well with your pup and I for one would love to see updates.
 

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Joey, I'm sorry you feel you have to leave. I am a bit surprised by the intensity of some of the posts. The bottom line is we don't have to agree but it is your puppy and your decision. I think you sound like a very caring and concerned owner and you are just trying to do what is right for your pup. Parvo scares the heck out of me too. Where I live there are ways around it. I am sure you will do your best to socialize your pup when the time is right for you. I do feel socialization is important and it seems you do too or you wouldn't have made this post. Again, I understand the opinions, I just don't understand the apparent anger it has brought.

I truly hope all goes well with your pup and I for one would love to see updates.
As several of us stated, we are in very similar situations to the OP and have a problem with parvo in our area (myself included). Many suggested "what age to take pup off property" based on their personal experience in ways to minimize exposure in direct response to the title of the thread. I live in an area where puppies die weekly from parvo during the summer, and where the vets use disposable covers on their tables that are changed between each appointment because the virus (and other pathogens) are so severely problematic during the summer. I still took my puppy out in the world from the day I got her. A risk, yes, but risk is a part of life and this was a calculated and mitigated risk to prevent the known, awful outcome of an undersocialized dog.

I have not seen any anger here, I am certainly not angry (not least because nothing on a forum like this really ever gets me that riled up), but we have repeatedly seen our suggestions dismissed which is frustrating. Nobody suggested that Joey doesn't have the best interest of the pup at heart, because that's clearly not the case based on the fact that they are posting here, but we have disagreed on the best course of action in this situation (which is what forums are for).

Joey has received a plethora of advice from many different people, with many differing opinions and suggestions to pick and choose from (or not, as the case may be). And by starting this thread, Joey has made this discussion available to future members so that they, too, can see the advice and take it (or not).

If any of this feels like hate and/or anger, I really don't know what to say other than that I am truly sorry you feel that way. I hope things work out favorably for Joey and the pup.
 

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I do not hate Joey. I think frustration is the best way to describe how I feel. If he had given a little more information about what he wanted and his particular situation, which is different than those of us in the states, perhaps we would have stopped offering information that was of no value to him. It was only in the past few posts that I understood what he was looking for.

So if we ganged up on him it was out of frustration, not hate.

Good luck with your pup, Joey.
 

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Some of the opinions seemed a little intense to me too.......
If Parvovirus is of that big of a concern then I think Joey would probably be wise to play it on the safe side and not bring his (his or her?) pup out in public until he feels it's safe to do so.
I too have had many dogs throughout my life and have never intentionally "socialized" my pups to the degree that some of you are insisting is so important. They have all been exposed to the normal hustle bustle of life, which is good, but I have never worried about purposely socializing them like you are all talking about. They have all turned out to be great dogs with no behavioural problems, so obviously I did something right?
 

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At what age did you take your puppy off your property. I'm reading breeders who are almost all in agreement that 16 weeks is optimal unless parvo is in the area?
Immediately! Remember, the window of socialization ends at 12 weeks. If you wait until 16 weeks to properly socialize your dog, you are no longer socializing, you are training. Prior to 12 weeks, the amount of effort it takes to have an enormous positive impact on the rest of the puppy's life is very small. After 12 weeks, it takes exponentially more effort and you are not likely to even be able to have the same impact.

I strongly suggest that my puppy buyers start a puppy kindergarten at no later than 10-11 weeks of age.

The risk of not properly socializing a puppy is without a doubt greater than the risk of a dog getting sick, so long as reasonable precautions are taken. Don't take your dog to a dog park or any other area heavily trafficked by lots of unknown and unvaccinated dogs. Otherwise, I take my puppies with me EVERYWHERE. To the bank, the hair salon, the nail salon, small pet boutiques, my niece's soccer games, friend's houses, outdoor restaurants, dog training facilities, walking trails where not a lot of dogs tend to go, to my office, walking on a sidewalk with cars driving by, etc. etc.
 

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I've taken everyone's advice and I do appreciate it, because I'm a nurse I probably err on the side of caution, but I was hoping there were other people out there who may have and a parvo epidemic in there area and was wondering how they handled the situation and what they did with advice they received from both vet and breeder. I think my problem is that my city has an outbreak, persistent problem with parvo that is actively killing dogs and precautions are being put in place to protect pups and the like. Hence the need to put off socializing to a little later. I was hoping to hear from someone who may have gone through something similar with parvo and the situation of socializing a little later than normal. Thanks for all the advice I really do appreciate it.
If you truly feel that the parvo risk is so high where you live that you cannot take your puppy anywhere safely, then you should be sure to remove your shoes before entering your house and shower and change clothes before interacting with your puppy every single time you leave. Make sure your puppy does not step foot anywhere your shoes have been unless you disinfect any area where you have stepped with bleach or another disinfectant that kills Parvo. You may even want to dip your shoes in a bleach solution before stepping out of your car. You might want to bleach your floor mat in your car. And make sure that anyone who comes to your house does the same thing and scrubs their forearms with disinfecting soap.
 

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If you truly feel that the parvo risk is so high where you live that you cannot take your puppy anywhere safely, then you should be sure to remove your shoes before entering your house and shower and change clothes before interacting with your puppy every single time you leave. Make sure your puppy does not step foot anywhere your shoes have been unless you disinfect any area where you have stepped with bleach or another disinfectant that kills Parvo. You may even want to dip your shoes in a bleach solution before stepping out of your car. You might want to bleach your floor mat in your car. And make sure that anyone who comes to your house does the same thing and scrubs their forearms with disinfecting soap.
When we went to see Javelin's litter we walked through a disinfectant tray before going into the yard and washed hands and forearms. Also I expect to be adding a beginner class to my Friday classes near the end of the year. If there are puppies we will use a disinfectant tray there too.
 

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I'm still troubled by the hater's charge. If you are reading this Joey, the folks in PF were trying to give you some suggestions and information. The hating on this forum is reserved for the big stuff - puppy mills and other forms of animal cruelty. My Mom used to say "Hate is a very harsh word" and I resent it being applied to this thread.

There are ways that you can expose your puppy to life, without exposing it to Parvo. That's all you needed to take away from this thread. Oh, and random Poodle owners took the time to think about your problem and respond thoughtfully. This isn't Reddit:)
 
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