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Discussion Starter #1
If you breed a black to a brown and get white/cream puppies with brown noses and "green" eyes (among other pups)- was that well planned breeding ???:rolffleyes:

Would browns in that litter fade even they do have "DD" - by now , as I understood reading here, those "DD" combos have no real effect on color retention - or I missed something :rolffleyes: ???

Thanks !
 

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If you breed a black to a brown and get white/cream puppies with brown noses and "green" eyes (among other pups)- was that well planned breeding ???:rolffleyes:

Would browns in that litter fade even they do have "DD" - by now , as I understood reading here, those "DD" combos have no real effect on color retention - or I missed something :rolffleyes: ???

Thanks !
I would say that it is not well planned. One would think you would've researched the pedigree enough to know that there wouldn't be any whites etc. in the last couple of generations.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I know - strange right :rolffleyes:.

Oh - and there were whites on the stud's side , I am sure of that since I know the line and Dam was white also (who produced that black Stud !!!).

Would anybody risk having white pups with wrong points just to get some good browns ?????:rolffleyes:

Anyway ... :wacko: - one can expect it all , it seems ... "All is "fair" in love and war and poodle breeding" it seems :eek:hwell:
 

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Oh - I am becoming famous for that ability LMAO !!!!

I "crap out" many breeders lately :bump2: They read my e-mail and yell : "CRAP- this one again AAAAAAAAAA - I have no CERF jeeeeeeeezzz - would she let go already" !!????
 

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LOL, Roxy that was perfect!

Wouldn't it depend on what their over all goal was for the breeding is? Perhaps the breeder felt it was worth the risk. Does he/she own both dogs, was that the stud that was closest or did he/she seek out that stud dog? I'm getting tired of hearing all about color, while more improtant issues get pushed aside. Who cares if a stud produces dark red puppies or non fading browns, if he only has prelims? Rant over.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ehem... I will not share the rest LOL

And I think that breeding correct pigmentation is important - no matter what color is the goal or whatever else was a goal -now what - we need pink nosed poodles because somebody wanted to "improve" tail-set LAMO
 

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Okay gotta admit that one got me too Way to go Roxy ! :)
And yes pigmentation is VERY important. Who knows what they were after.. Ask them ...
According to some of the color threads that I have read you do this type of breeding to improve whatever then if this is what you get then you breed away from it .. IMO it makes no sense but some think that this is the way to improve:doh:So perhaps if this is the thinking They WERE trying to improve something ?
 

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Ehem... I will not share the rest LOL

And I think that breeding correct pigmentation is important - no matter what color is the goal or whatever else was a goal -now what - we need pink nosed poodles because somebody wanted to "improve" tail-set LAMO
I can see your point, but it is my belief that color should come last. I'm not saying breeders should breed poorly colored dogs. What i'm saying is, if a particular color is weakening the breed, that color should not be bred for.

It seems to me that the dogs with the best conformation, lowest likelihood for disease, and best temperaments should ALWAYS be chosen, regardless of color. Within that pool of the best dogs, color would of course be a consideration, but I think it's unethical to introduce a genetically weaker dog simply because the color is more striking. Perhaps if you've been breeding long enough, and are consistently producing extremely healthy, sound dogs, then you may take that line of wonderful dogs and begin breeding for certain colors. But breeders owe it to their dogs to breed for the things that are most important first.

Dogs don't care what color they are, but they do care if they develop a disease, or cannot move properly because ther conformation is not right, or spend their life bouncing from home to home because they lack the appropriate temperament to be a good pet. In the end, dog breeding needs to be about the dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I absolutely agree that color should not be a priority - but I also think that with a proper choice of a stud and a dam and REALLY knowing the lines and genetic make-up of the same involved one should not end up " by accident" with such BIG deviation from a standard.

Green eyes and light-brown noses :wacko:- come ooonnnnn LOL

I like poodles of all colors - actually am thinking of getting a parti lately - so I definitely am not "snobbish" about a "proper color" ;)! But getting "weird" combos of coloration for any reason is not justified IMO since there are so many available dams and sires with complete health clearance and perfect confirmation and excellent temperaments.
 

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LOL, Roxy that was perfect!

Wouldn't it depend on what their over all goal was for the breeding is? Perhaps the breeder felt it was worth the risk. Does he/she own both dogs, was that the stud that was closest or did he/she seek out that stud dog? I'm getting tired of hearing all about color, while more improtant issues get pushed aside. Who cares if a stud produces dark red puppies or non fading browns, if he only has prelims? Rant over.
I could not agree with you more!!Too many breeders are too afraid they might end up with a litter of pups a colour that is not their colour of choice to breed up and improve their dogs. If you can breed a red to a black, or a silver to a white, and you end up with an entire litter of black pups that carry red, or white pups that carry silver, who cares, if the conformation is much improved, the gene pool opened up, and this breeding is helping you reach your goal as a breeder.

But the original question would make me ask if they did this because it was convenient or free (because they own the dog) or do they have a plan that makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Oh, I agree with you Arreau about that - no question !!!! If one generation will be black and than next give improved and gorgeous "whatever" correct color - that would be fantastic in every way !!!!!

I just do not like seeing litter of completely off- the-chart coloration :doh: !!! I do not think that cream pups with green eyes and light noses would ever be used in any future of the line ... this or any other :rolffleyes:- am I wrong :rolffleyes: ??? Would anybody breed those ???
 
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