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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The lady I'm getting my puppy from is getting her litter evaluated today by a professional handler. We both love this one boy but I was looking at Kalstone's book and found that he does have a broad muzzle. No biggie really but I texted her about it to be sure I was right since I'm new and want to know that my eyes are seeing the right things and she called and we got to talking about him. She asked if I was having second thoughts, I said no I just wanted to make sure that I was seeing correctly and long story short I think she has really bonded to this boy. She said if I don't take him she's keeping him, because I think she's always wanted to keep him but she was hesitant about owning 5 dogs (she has two pet Cavaliers as well as the poodles). Well, as you know we would be co-owning any dog I take but there is another black boy that is a very nice, probably nicer (her words), show prospect. I didn't focus a lot of attention on him because I was looking at the female and this male. She's said all of the boys are great on the table and have good temperaments. What the bottom line is is, if the handler says that he's going to make an outstanding show prospect, I think I'll end up with him. An outstanding prospect is easier on the novice. If he thinks the other is showable, I'll stick with him and just deal with his size (he's going to end up pretty big) and show him to the best of my ability. If I go with boy #2, she's keeping the other boy. Personally I think that's the best situation because she obviously loves this puppy. I'm including pictures so you can give me your thoughts on these two puppies. These pictures were taken when they were 7 weeks. I believe they are 10 weeks now.

Boy #1 (the original)



Boy #2

 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Let me upload them. They are showing for me but they aren't uploaded to a hosting site. Hang on let me fix.

Okay fixed, click pictures to enlarge.
 

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OK I can see them now. I am by no means a judge or professional handler and just two pictures without video is tough to make any determination. Personally I like the stack of the second one over the first but the first is not in a perfect stack. I also like the blacker color of the second and his face. What is the temperment like, does he carry his tail up when playing and can you tell whom in the litter is alpha (I'd stay away from an Alpha.) Video would show more about their personality and interaction.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
OK I can see them now. I am by no means a judge or professional handler and just two pictures without video is tough to make any determination. Personally I like the stack of the second one over the first but the first is not in a perfect stack. I also like the blacker color of the second and his face. What is the temperment like, does he carry his tail up when playing and can you tell whom in the litter is alpha (I'd stay away from an Alpha.) Video would show more about their personality and interaction.
He's not alpha. There's a cream female in the litter that is alpha and a black mismark that was in the litter was alpha before her. They both carry their tails when they move and they both have nice movement from what I can remember. The reason the first is not as black is because he's most likely a blue. Temperaments are both outgoing and friendly and from what I remember the 2nd boy came up and I was able to pick him up and put him in my lap while the rest of the litter played. The blue boy is just a love bug. He will let you hold him like a baby and he is just so very easy going.

I'll update with the results from the handler. It's fun to see if you are right isn't it? I say right but honestly it's all someone's opinion, even judges.
 

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Its kind of hard to tell with these pictures, the first one is not stacked right. If you could get some pictures of them like this it would be better. ( the person's hand is in the ways also)



I am not sure if its just how the puppy is standing but the second puppy in the second picture has slay like feet. Again we would need better pictures.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Its kind of hard to tell with these pictures, the first one is not stacked right. If you could get some pictures of them like this it would be better. ( the person's hand is in the ways also)



I am not sure if its just how the puppy is standing but the second puppy in the second picture has slay like feet. Again we would need better pictures.
They are about this age right now. I'm not sure if she's taken pictures of them at this age.

You mean "splay" feet? I had to grab my Kalstones to see what you meant. It does look like that. I'll ask her about it when she calls.
 

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It is so many things that make a show dog as show dog , it is so hard to judge without walking a dog, touching the bones , checking for correct bite, descended testicles etc. (they might not be dropped by 8 weeks completely but should be down occasionally at least ). But, I have to agree with the rest - second looks better to me, head and body , hindquarters are better in the second one . I could not enlarge photos : ((( but it looks like second has a better positioned ears . I am not crazy about their feet , though (hmmmm...). Look small to me , but it could be a photo - as I said - I for some reason can not enlarge photos (*sigh...) , although there obviously is an "option" available :eek:hwell:.

For showing it is better to have outgoing pup definitely. Not alpha, but one that will be self assured and know how to "strut his stuff".

I hope handler will give you a better perspective... Best of luck !!!!
 

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Well, just going by two pics of each... which is not the easiest as already said. Not watching them move, temperament, hands on... etc.. I would go with the second one. I know the first one is not stacked really well, but the second one definitely looks more balanced front to rear. And I prefer the head of the second as to the first. BUT, this is just my opinion... I am not professing to be an expert.
 
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