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Discussion Starter #1
this isnt totally poodle related, but I wanted to vent.

The past two weeks the clinic has been once a year shavedown central!

I am all about client education, but you know, the customer is always right:doh:

I have given my schpeel about the fact that double coated dog breeds needing their coat, and then the clients just tun around (after I have told them that the dogs coat is their airconditioning ect ect) and say, well its hot out, and we want him to be comfortable!!!

I shaved down 2 aussies, a pappillion/pom mix, a pom, a chi/shih mix, a peke, a samoyed and a GSD this pay period.

SERIOUSLY PEOPLE Im just not going to even talk any more I guess :fish:
 

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I hear you! Count in border collies goldens and 4 Bernese! I just don't understand! Oh and enter the elusive 'summer cut' season! "what would you like done today?" "oh, a summer cut please!" "and what do you want your dog to look like?" " oh you know I just want a summer cut." well WTH is a summer cut!!!!!!! Blah!!!
 

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Shaved a samoyed? :C What a shame.

Can you tell me about how the coat air conditions them? I never knew, and I was never taught about it. We just do what they tell us here.. especially since shave downs generally are more expensive, the company likes it's money. u_u
 

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a proper double coat insulates the same as inslutation keeps your house warm in winter and cool in summer. It does need to be kept brushed out though, as a packed undercoat is hot and stuffy, but a brushed out airy double coat actually keeps the heat AWAY from the skin, keeping a pocket of air around them that stays at a fairly even temperature; just like insulation!

The reason people swear their dog is cooler is because invariably their dog had a packed undercoat previously; which is certainly very hot (like wearing a woolly jumper) and so shaving it means they're now cooler. But they're also very prone to sun burn and skin damage, and they will need to be watched to keep them from overheating in the sun still! Keep their coats brushed out and it's like wearing a loose t-shirt in the summer; much cooler than bare skin!

I'm so glad it's autumn here now. I hate summer shave downs!!! I don't don't shave down double coated dogs though (unless it really is necessary as the only humane way to get the coat out and start again!)
 

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I hear you! Count in border collies goldens and 4 Bernese! I just don't understand! Oh and enter the elusive 'summer cut' season! "what would you like done today?" "oh, a summer cut please!" "and what do you want your dog to look like?" " oh you know I just want a summer cut." well WTH is a summer cut!!!!!!! Blah!!!
Oh. I hate this. I have customers that think a summer cut is anything from an inch to a 10 blade. I get the same thing with the "puppy cut." To me that's about an inch or longer. To some of my clients that's a 7F. :rolffleyes:
 

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I have a couple clients that only want to pay for a cut once or twice a year (they want complete shave downs). I told them both I would not be grooming their dogs anymore, they are dirty, stinky and matted. They always seem to call this time for year for the so called "summer cuts". I can understand getting a couple small matts, but when the dogs are completely matted I don't feel these people should even be allowed to own a dog. I have to bite my tongue to keep from saying "why don't you not shower for 6 months to a year and see how you feel". Enough venting.....sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Oh and ad insult to injury, one of the aussies HATED the water for her bath. She alligator rolled, snapped, screamed and in general freaked out. I stopped and called the owner, who said he was not going to pay for a haircut if it wasnt finished, and that he wasn't going to pay an additional 40 dollars to have her sedated. yeeeaaahhh

I muzzled her and had one of our kennel techs hold her so she would settle down. then she was fine and I got it done. surpisingly she was great for the grooming part, which IMO is the scariest part of the whole thing. (next to drying)

We are a new clinic, and I do not own it, so Im not ale to turn away clients, however, when I have my own shop, I will not be shaving down the double coated breeds. I have no problem scissoring the coat some to neaten it up, but its a huge PITA to shave them down
 

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I have a couple clients that only want to pay for a cut once or twice a year (they want complete shave downs). I told them both I would not be grooming their dogs anymore, they are dirty, stinky and matted. They always seem to call this time for year for the so called "summer cuts". I can understand getting a couple small matts, but when the dogs are completely matted I don't feel these people should even be allowed to own a dog. I have to bite my tongue to keep from saying "why don't you not shower for 6 months to a year and see how you feel". Enough venting.....sorry.
I did a chow mix like this once, the lady had been bringing it in every 4 months or so, but then her husband and she had lost their jobs, and could not afford to do it as often, the poor dog was pelted to the skin. I felt for the woman, but she could have brushed it.



On the other hand I LOVE clients who are awesome. I have a lady who brings her two shih-tzu in and they get #7 all over with a very short teddy bear face. The dogs are well behaved, she loves my work (even though its not that difficult) and she tips well. :)

I have another lady with a little toy poodle, the lady insists that the dog has shaken and just been a wreck with every other groomer, but she is super good with me.
She brings her in every month, and last time she was a little matted on her chest and legs. I guess the owner had been out of town and hadn't been able to comb her. The dog looked awesome when I was done though!
 

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On the other hand I LOVE clients who are awesome. I have a lady who brings her two shih-tzu in and they get #7 all over with a very short teddy bear face. The dogs are well behaved, she loves my work (even though its not that difficult) and she tips well. :)

I have another lady with a little toy poodle, the lady insists that the dog has shaken and just been a wreck with every other groomer, but she is super good with me.
She brings her in every month, and last time she was a little matted on her chest and legs. I guess the owner had been out of town and hadn't been able to comb her. The dog looked awesome when I was done though!
I second this, i have a few that come in, one wheaton who i absolutely love to little pieces!! the only wheaton that hasn't tried to bite my face off (ok not only but there have only been one or two others) a few shih tzus, oooh and Jack the mini poodle and DEETS! and my corgis!! (was told i couldn't forget them!!) ok so the good out weigh the bad, but when they are bad, they are really bad!! for example, the shih tzu and goldendoodle below.....:scared:
not that you guys really need examples... im sure youve had many of your own.
 

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OMG!! That is heartbreaking and makes me want to cry. How awful that people let their pets get to a state like that and then expect you to FIX the mess they created. I don't blame you for venting.

That was a really interesting explanation of the double coats being insulators. I had never heard that before and learned something new today.
 

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For some reason right now our dog park is full of siberians a few malamutes and many crosses but I have never seen so many siberian huskys must be quite a few breeders around or something anyways the talk yesterday was how they were mostly about to get the summer shave down to keep them cool. I cringed
We had a malamute in our early twenties, We spent hours brushing him and getting out that winter coat and got bags and bags of fur daily.
We would never have shaved him Heck try the furminater people don't shave them.

On a brighter note we did meet for the first time a really pretty Cantope red girl I believe just over a year. Played just like Mandy so even though the girl was tired the three of them had a few good romps. Wish I had my camera
 

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not that you guys really need examples... im sure youve had many of your own.
I would have showed the pictures to the owners and said "See what you're dog has to go through when you don't brush them?"

That's soo awful!
 

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I would have showed the pictures to the owners and said "See what you're dog has to go through when you don't brush them?"

That's soo awful!
I would also show the pics to animal control!! ... that's animal cruelty in my opinion! isn't it?! wow... so sad!
 

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I bet it's hard handing the dogs over after that kind of neglect to their coats.
 

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Wow.
Looking at those pictures I would think I was looking at the before picture of a rescue animal, coming in to be groomed.
Wow.
At least it looks like it's being fed. Makes me wonder if they've been outside all winter. You wouldn't think that people would want that filth in their house, and then it's doubly sad if they do make it stay outside. People like that should have a stuffed animal from the toy store, or if they just can't keep up with the hair, a lab or some other dog whose coat sheds on its own.
Poor dog, and poor you for having to deal with that.
Wow.
 

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Oh man, I feel so bad for that poor shih tzu and the doodle. ): I can't believe they let them get that bad... How horrible. I would certainly show those pics to the owner when they came to pick them up so they could understand just how bad it actually was. They may just genuinely not understand what was wrong, and having you explain it and show them may start brushing or at least keeping their dog in a shorter trim. Many won't care, but there are a precious few who simply didn't know!
 

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Teddy's groomer told me that she has called animal control on a couple of owners who brought their dogs in matted and dirty. She also said that she demonstrated what having matted hair feels like on an owner's arm. The woman screamed and said she had no idea it hurt that much. I think some people really are just that ignorant.

This morning, Teddy and I were outside talking to some kids through the fence. One of the little girls started kicking at the fence right in front of Teddy, so I asked her to stop so she wouldn't scare him. Another girl, a little older than the first, said, "why? It's only a dog". That really hit me hard in so many ways. I was shocked, saddened, angered and filled with dismay that this little kid seemed to have no respect for animals at all, and from the fact that her attitude had to come from somewhere, i.e., her parents. These are the people who bring their dogs to groomers once a year all matted and dirty and then get angry when the groomer has no choice but to shave them to the skin.

:angry:
 

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ugh- i hear you- on nother board someone asked 'should i shave my BC pup" ummm no??? brush it out brush it out- nd then let it be.

i got about 10 people jumping down my throat that "insulation from the heat is not true" and that 'shaving double coats can not cause issues"
 

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Ok, so i understand how the double coat insulates and everything, i really do. Is it really That horrible though to shave them? Personally i think not. If they are matted then it is obviously much more humane to shave them.
If i were to ever inherate a double coated breed like a newf/pyr, etc i would have them shaved. I would take in and save the dog. I wouldnt choose to deal with the coat though. I think its much better then sending the dog to a shelter. Certinly shaving a dog is far less offensive then abuse or something.

I have seen and know how some people just flat out ignore their poor dogs and let them get matted like the doodle pic. I think others have no clue though. Just on friday i had a lovely client come in that we have seen for years. They got a newf about a year ago. They were good about brushing the puppy fluff. He is an adult dog now though. He came in for horrible hot spots. Most of the problem was that his undercoat was severly matted and the skin was getting no air. I had to shave areas and was getting the pelt thing going on. She was horrified and said her husband brushed the dog every night. I said he was brushing the outer coat and not actually getting down to the skin.
 

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I want to look into this myself more. As some know I trimmed my Poms in the Lion trim a couple months ago and they are growing out wonderfully.

Dont the weather elements have some to do with the practical purpose of the coats, right?

I am not saying its a good or bad thing but historically - cuts were made for weather conditions and working dogs.

If you are not changing their elements and allowing dogs to be in the heat or cold, then I cannot see the "harm in this".
 
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