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Update - adult daughter/dog moving in

3K views 50 replies 19 participants last post by  dogsavvy 
#1 ·
There has been some positive growth, but boy, this has been a difficult week. Chief is calming down some. I have spent all day, every day trying to make this work, and put in a call to my dog trainer, to get her advice ( maybe I am being too over-protective as my dayghter says or not. I want advice. I am not comfortable with the amount of risk of injury I am seeing ).

Today, I just put Chief in our fenced in back yard for about 45 minutes and left him. He scratched on the door, howled some, ran off and chased everything that moved and came back again. I do believe this is the most ADHD dog I have ever known. BUT, when I let him back in, he was calm for a COUPLE HOURS! I am not sure if my daughter was ok with me doing that.

I am seeing some adverse behaviors in my Sammy ( poodle). He is not enjoying the rough housing/ "playing" as my daughter calls it, as much ( I never thought he did ). He is starting to be agressive about his toys, which he can never have because everything he wants to play with/settle with, Chief takes. I can give them both the exact same thing and chief wants to take Sammy's. I know that is because Chief wants to play, but sammy doesn't want to.

Chief has also hurt Sammy a few times, just by jumping on him. Sammy does turn belly up and chief landed with his big paws on Sammy's exposed belly. Now, Sammy is afraid of that and I'm so scared of injury. And, Sammy is also starting to bite at Chief, out of fear. My daughter says Chief is only 17 lbs, but I tried picking him up today and guarentee he must be 30.

I really want your input on this cause my vet is worthless. I do not want to risk my dog's health. This other puppy is at least 3 times my dog's weight, but he is a brick.

I have put so much work into getting these dogs to work together. I am not sure what normal dog play looks like, but do not like this.

My daughter keeps telling me " they are dogs, they are playing, let them play" while not lifting her ass off the couch to help or seeing that my dog is trying to escape ( maybe I am wrong< she says he likes it, I think he is fighting for his life).

Daily, Sammy's activity level consisted of a walk ( 10 minutes? ) a day, fetch and 2 10 -20 minute training classes. Now, he is a chew toy/interactive toy for 18 hours a day.

It is getting better. I do secluded ourselves in my room, couldn,t today cause daughter had migraine>
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Can you get some video of the "play"? It may be a matter of age and not very compatible play styles or it could be leading to something no one wants, behavior changes to the negative for Sammy and not enough structure for Chief. It seems to me that Chief is the one
who needs the shunning treatment :).

Just as when Sammy came to live with you and he had to learn that Jett was the senior dog in the pack, now Chief must learn the same respect toward Sammy. This is not a suggestion for any sort of punishment, simply that he must learn to wait his turn. It doesn't sound like Sammy will be the one to do the teaching :).

(If it's something you want to confirm, and if you have a scale around, just weigh yourself alone then pick up Chief and weigh the both of you, subtracting you weight.)

If I can find some video of my two playing when they were closer to Chief's age, I'll post it for you.
They're a bit over 7mo here


A bit over a year here


They play rough at times, more than shown here, til one (Neo) yelps because the other (Remo) has gone too far. Then they both make themselves small and Remo starts licking Neo's eyes, I think as an apology. You can see by their body language and strategies that they are playing cooperatively and in fun.
 
#3 ·
Daabor, I am so sorry you and Sammy are going through this. It is such a hard situation for you. It sounds to me like a bad situation for Sammy. Ideally, he shouldn't have to stick up for himself. When one dog is putting off clear signals that they do not appreciate the actions of another and the other dog doesn't listen, the respective owners are supposed to step in and prevent abuse. But your daughter seems unwilling to be responsible.

I had a similar situation when I visited home for a couple weeks over Christmas and took Misha. My sister's dog was a bit of a bully and took away any toy that Misha touched and made Misha feel like he wasn't able to play at all. I kept telling her dog off for bullying Misha and she complained that it seemed like I didn't like her dog. I told her that it should be her stepping in and preventing him from being a bully and that he would never learn to coexist properly without correction when he did things that were bad. Initially, she was angry/upset with me for "calling her a bad owner" but she did start to control her dog better and they did become more harmonious after that.

Can you remind us how much activity Chief is getting? He seems like a very high energy puppy that needs a lot of mental and physical stimulation. If his needs were being better met, it is likely there would be less conflict.

Regarding toys, I would institute a no toy rule when both dogs are together if you are not able to correct Chief to the point of success. The toys are clearly causing issues and though it isn't Sammy's fault, you don't want him developing possessive aggression because of this. He can play with his toys when Chief isn't around.

I forget if we talked about tethering in the other thread but I feel like we did. Have you tried tethering Chief? I feel like Sammy really needs a break from this puppy. He needs a safe space where Chief cannot get to him.
 
#4 ·
I think your daughter needs a crash course in dog etiquette and body language, and to be gently but firmly reminded that your house=your rules. And Chief needs much more exercise, much more occupation, and crate training. There is a simple test for whether Sammy is enjoying the "game" - if they are separated does he voluntarily restart it, or is it always Chief? I would try breaking the dog play every few minutes by offering them both a treat, ideally involving a Sit, and then watching to see which dog initiates the next bout.
 
#5 ·
I feel for you. This is a very difficult situation and I don’t think you are over reacting. Chief seems like a very rambunctious puppy, maybe even out of control, and he could very well hurt Sammy.

I think since your daughter is not concerned and since this is your house, it’s perfectly okay for you to take control and make the rules. For example, Chief could be crated or tethered when unsupervised so Sammy doesn’t feel threatened. Sammy has to be protected from Chief, and it’s up to the humans to do it, because accidents do and will happen otherwise.
 
#6 ·
Having an adult child move home would be stressful even without pets involved. It requires an attitude adjustment on everyone's part. Add an undisciplined puppy to that and it's got to be really hard.

Frankly, I would limit the puppy's access to the house. I'd limit him to one area away from my poodle. When my daughter complained, I'd just say - that's the way it's going to be. (My solutions may not work for your life, but I have my mean moments.)

Good luck.
 
#8 ·
I think you've had good advice so far. Protect your boy from the puppy by separating them unless the puppy can play nice. Your daughter can get off the couch and walk him if she doesn't like it; you own the house.

For the puppy, since it's not fair for him to be locked in a bedroom or crate all the time, I would make him a flirt pole and run the heck out of him two or three times a day. When my boy Galen is pestering the cat it's usually an indication he needs to play. Ten minutes with a flirt pole gets his energy down enough that I can then stick him into a crate with a yakky stick or a bowl of food and get a couple hours of peace.

The total cost of a homemade flirt pole is under $5 if you already have some rope. Here is mine:
468782


I got a 5' piece of thin PVC pipe from the hardware store. I cut an 8' piece of clothesline and threaded it down the center of the tube. I knotted a steel washer to one end of the rope to keep it from pulling out of the tube. I tied an old tug toy to the other end (I could have used a stuffed animal, dish towel, or worn out t-shirt instead.)

I just drag the toy in front of Galen and then whip it away when he starts to chase it. I repeat a few times until he's panting, then I let him catch the toy. I then either play tug with him, or I work on calmness by letting him hold the toy in his mouth while I rub his ears and pet him. Eventually, when he seems relaxed and isn't breathing so hard, I take the toy from him and drag it to start another chase session.
 
#9 ·
I think you've had good advice so far. Protect your boy from the puppy by separating them unless the puppy can play nice. Your daughter can get off the couch and walk him if she doesn't like it; you own the house.

For the puppy, since it's not fair for him to be locked in a bedroom or crate all the time, I would make him a flirt pole and run the heck out of him two or three times a day. When my boy Galen is pestering the cat it's usually an indication he needs to play. Ten minutes with a flirt pole gets his energy down enough that I can then stick him into a crate with a yakky stick or a bowl of food and get a couple hours of peace.

The total cost of a homemade flirt pole is under $5 if you already have some rope. Here is mine:
View attachment 468782

I got a 5' piece of thin PVC pipe from the hardware store. I cut an 8' piece of clothesline and threaded it down the center of the tube. I knotted a steel washer to one end of the rope to keep it from pulling out of the tube. I tied an old tug toy to the other end (I could have used a stuffed animal, dish towel, or worn out t-shirt instead.)

I just drag the toy in front of Galen and then whip it away when he starts to chase it. I repeat a few times until he's panting, then I let him catch the toy. I then either play tug with him, or I work on calmness by letting him hold the toy in his mouth while I rub his ears and pet him. Eventually, when he seems relaxed and isn't breathing so hard, I take the toy from him and drag it to start another chase session.
Good tips! A stretchy bungee cord is extra fun! I see you have a floppy moppy!
 
#10 ·
Watch for the doggy dance: Sammy and Chief should mirror each other as they play, always taking turns lunging, rearing, play biting, running away, etc. Back and forth, back and forth.

If Chief is consistently entering Sammy's space, and not vice versa, timeout.

This is up to the humans to enforce, otherwise Sammy is likely to become reactive with time. And if Chief isn't respecting polite social cues, a fight may ensue.

If a dog doesn't know how to play politely, the humans may have to interrupt every few minutes to allow both dogs some space. The hope is that this will improve with time.

Not only is it absolutely not fair to leave a physically weaker dog to defend himself constantly, it really could do longterm damage—physically and/or to his temperament.

I'm sorry you are in this situation. :( Not only are you worried about Sammy, I'm sure it's hard seeing Chief not getting what he needs. 45 minutes outside, alone, is not going to do anything to wear him out or improve his manners. It might even make his bad habits worse. Hoping your daughter steps up and takes him for a 45 minute walk next time, so you and Sammy can have a break while Chief has his doggy needs met.
 
#11 ·
Raising a puppy is a lot of work and quite frankly, exhausting. Any extra hands should be welcomed but not entitled, unless you’re paying - trainer, dog sitter etc. I recommend claiming tasks, like 1/2 hour in the yard training, brushing, finding healthy crews, Kong’s whatever for quiet crate time, an AM or PM potty break. Whatever you feel comfortable and happy to do. DD needs to power through migraines, brisk walks are recommended btw, get Chief on a schedule. She needs to be present for any time spent with Sammy. She’s got the first part aced, in “Love me”; “Love my dog” needs her best efforts:)
 
#12 ·
DD needs to power through migraines, brisk walks are recommended btw, get Chief on a schedule.
As someone who's suffered from migraines since I was 7 years old, I just want to gently say it's not always possible to power through them. I get multiple varieties. Some allow me to fulfill my daily obligations. Some respond to medication. Some leave me screaming or silent with agony, vomiting on myself, unable to move.

There's a lot of stigma around this disorder, even from those who also suffer.

Chief will need to learn to settle in the dark with the OP's daughter if this is something she regularly deals with. My last dog did it. Now Peggy does. It's just part of life.
 
#14 ·
I am sorry it's taken me awhile to update. I've been sick ( not Covid ).Although chief has made good progress, I told daughter she has to take care of him when she gets off work. She told me she is going to rehome him if she is the only one responsible, and it's my fault she looses her dog. Chief has maded good progress, but he needs constant redirection. I do this all day. My daughter doesn't see the need for this and I get tired at the end of the day.

After all my work, she comes home, spreads out on the couch and does : social media: for a couple hours. Completely ignoring her dog. She does this to her son too.

I am still too pyschically sick to function, and it would be much easier, I really like my daughter's mutt and would like to keep him. if possible.

I' not okay w/ Sammy getting hurt and this is where my daughter and I get into it.
 
#23 ·
...I told daughter she has to take care of him when she gets off work. She told me she is going to rehome him if she is the only one responsible, and it's my fault she looses her dog... she comes home, spreads out on the couch and does social media.. Completely ignoring her dog... .I' not okay w/ Sammy getting hurt and this is where my daughter and I get into it.
Decades ago, I lived on my own and worked, but couldn't always find a sitter on the Friday night-Saturday & Sunday fun times when I wanted to go out. I complained that since she "was home, doing nothing", why couldn't she help out more often? After awhile she got really tired - and angry - at me leaning on her too often as an anytime on-call babysitter. Finally she told me with no uncertainty, "I raised mine, now you go raise yours."

Youth can be selfishly persistent and I wasn't even that young. "But I need help!"

Finally she said, "Pretend I'm dead. Then whatchu gonna do?"

I was stumped for an answer.

Where there is no way, we learn to make a way.

I think your daughter is trying to guilt trip and manipulate you so she can maintain her comfort level and save money, which is extremely common behavior in young adults with their parents. it will take less time to have one huge blowout fight than spend 15 hours a day for another week.

If I were in that situation now with either of my kids, I'd set an ultimatum that if she doesn't find an evening weekday babysitter for her dog, or temporary home from one of her many social media friends, or a permanent home for her dog, to expect him to be gone when she gets home from work on whatever day you choose. Of course she'll try the guilt trip argument; I'd tell her, not my dog, not my problem.

I can only speak to how my mother's tough love and her own self-care affected me. I was mad for awhile, but it didn't cause a rift in our relationship. I found a neighbor who was happy to babysit for a few hours on weekends - because I got off my duff and looked. The experience forced me to grow up and to stop taking my mother for granted. This gave me more respect for her and for myself as an adult who could be self-reliant.

Every family is different so I don't know how these strategies passed down from my mother and from me to my own children will work on your family, but I wish you well.
 
#19 ·
Yes its easy for our kids to fall into the "being a kid" mode but our adult children aren "kids" anymore and therefore must take responsibility. I can only speak for myself but many of us gave to much of ourselves to our kids and sense we have a generation of people who like to blame others for their errs in judgement and/or never take responsibility for themselves. My adult daughter lives at home and while most times she is responsible she occasionally falls into the child mode. Seems I fall for it too until I've had enough, then I remind her of the many doors this house house and they all open and close. She is soon to get a puppy, she wanted another big dog but I told her she could have one I wanted her to get a st poodle so it could be good size wise with Renn but she wanted a boxer and I said frankly I'm not really up to the puppy thing right now. She is getting a shih tzu, we've had them before pretty easy dogs but I reminded her while I helped while she was in school, I'm not about to get up any earlier to feed and take out a puppy so just keep that in your mind. And most importantly I hope your feeling better soon.
 
#20 ·
I am sorry you are ill. And sorry also your daughter is manipulating you and playing the guilt trip on you. Unfortunately, no matter what we teach our kids, a big part of what they are is self-made. If she won’t take responsibility for her dog, then she shouldn’t have one and rehoming would be best for this puppy who deserves better. And so does your Sammy. And you.
 
#22 ·
I feel bad for you, that you are being forced to sort this out. She probably feels your demand is just another injustice parents inflict on their kids, like being forced to eat her vegetables. Oooh, mom is being mean.

Well, let's look at this from the Real Life perspective. This year, thanks mostly to bad luck and maybe to bad decisions, millions of Americans have had their lives disrupted. Lost jobs, lost homes, interrupted schooling, interrupted health care.

Your daughter has a mom that is willing to take her in. A mom that is able to take her in. A mom that is trying to support her during her crisis.

Those without family support are crashing on friends couches, if they are lucky enough to have good friends. Would she think it ok to treat a friend the way she's treating you? How many friends would put up with her behavior? Chances are she would end up sleeping in her car, like thousands of other people, if she didn't show a little more respect to the person whose couch she was borrowing.

It sucks that her life isn't all teddy bears and roses right now. However, she's got a mom that loves her and a safe place to stay. She's got the choice to keep her dog, if she follows a few reasonable rules. She's a lot better off than millions of other people this year.
 
#24 ·
Two things. I was going to say exactly what fjm said (all of it). I also agree that your daughter needs to step up on Chief's exercise (cowpony yes on the flirt pole) and his obedience training. It is your home and you have been kind and generous in opening it to them, but it does have to operate on your rules. No dog should have to be constantly wary about what is happening in his home.
 
#25 ·
@daabor You are in a tough situation because it's your daughter. Every day a dog needs a balance of affection, exercise and discipline. Considering your daughter comes home from work and ignores Chief for social media is evidence that it may be best rehome Chief. Your placed in a difficult situation since your daughter is trying to place a thick layer of guilt on you. Your daughter needs to step up and take responsibility for her own dog.

I sincerely hope you are feeling better soon. Please post updates whenever you can.
 
#26 ·
Daboor, I'll add this. I hope you don't feel pressured by any of us to use our solutions or act immediately or anytime soon, or even at all. As outsiders, we are like 'armchair quarterbacks'. We have an idea how to remedy a situation, but we're not in the thick of it. Parenting, family and other love relationships are complex and emotional.

As a parent, I had enormous difficulty with one my kids forcing him to become independent even after he moved to California. Here he is when he and his girlfriend drove across country on the move.

468921


I'd beg him to get a 2nd job. He'd have excuses. More than once he used his dog, a little dachshund, as pawn when he couldn't cover all of his rent. He knew I had a soft spot for his dog. "But mom, if I lose my place, what will become of him?"

468922


I got tired of him draining me and finally told him, "This is the last time! Next month I'm not answering your phone calls or texts near or just after the 1st. Sell your guitars, video systems, surfboard, skateboard, I don't care, I'm not helping, you're grown so act the part. If you need a bag a groceries I'll order that, but that's it."

Do you remember that staring contest game when the first person who blinks loses? Well, when I said "sell your guitars", he figuratively blinked.

A week later, with pride in his voice, he had a 2nd job! He now laughs at those days. So sometimes a parent needs trial runs and the young adult child needs test flights in leaving the nest and settling into an entirely new lifestyle. I hope this helps.
 
#28 ·
Thank you everyone for your replies! I appreciate all the time and thought you have put into helping me. I had been doing better physically for a couple days, but am having a bit of a set back today. Please pray that it doesn't get so bad that I'm in the ER tomm. morning.

I wish I could reply to each of you individually, but that's alot to remember. Raindrops, I implemented some of your suggestions. Sammy's toy box is now in my room and only low value/tug toys are out in the common area. When I first introduced teethering, I just brought chief's leash to my daughter and asked her to leash him. Initially, that did NOT go over well. She told me I was rude and smug? But, it has worked like a charm! Chief actually settles well when teethered.

fjm/dechi and others - I took data on how the dogs interact. 10/10 times, it is Chief that starts the mouthing, nipping, pouncing ( physically robust play ). Sammy will walk over to him, stand close by ect. but never intitiates the mouthing/nipping/pouncing. He does engage, once Chief starts it. However, Sammy has been in obedience training since he was about 6 months old and his trainer was very strict on dog/dog interaction during our classes. I am worried this will cause sammy to regress and hope it will not be a permanent change to his behavior.

I can put Sammy in a stand/stay, sit/stay or send him to "bed" for over 10 minutes ( out of sight) and he will not break it. It used to be 20 minutes, but training has slacked. Chief has had no training, will playfully attack sammy while he is in a "stay" and Sammy still will not break the stay until I free him. I only tried this on fjm/dechi's recommendation to see which proportion of instigation each dog was contributing and did not let it continue for any length of time before I released Sammy.

In a way, it is getting better here. The last 10 days have been fairly challenging for me due to health issues and I think my impatience showed. Daughter is trying to be more understanding.

I am an absolute failure when it comes to tough love. Daughter got mad at me the first time I told her I put Chief in his crate during the day, while she was at work. My son was literally putting Chief in his crate, as I called her on the phone to let her know. She was mad I didn't get her approval beforehand! She did apologize later.

Tonight, I let her know that chief is tearing up the carpet under her bathroom door ( carpet tacks are exposed and I don't want her to step on them). Her response was " why is he doing that? He has Sammy to keep him busy all the time." sooo, sammy is the sacrificail chew toy still?

Sorry this response is so long and I think I need a therapist. You people are wonderful and have helped me so much. Please know that on the other side of this screen, I am so thankful for your support.
 
#31 ·
Vita’s advice is gold. I’m at the opposite side of a lot of the folks posting here, as I’m a young, college student currently living with my parents. Although I‘m very likely much younger than your daughter, considering she already has a kid of her own, I’ll try to offer some perspective on a couple of things.

Initially, that did NOT go over well. She told me I was rude and smug?
Tone matters a LOT. As a young person, I HATE with a capital H when someone older comes at me with a “you’re wrong, I’m right, you’re little, I’m big attitude,”, especially if I feel like my side isn’t being heard (The Great Mask Debate being a recent example in many of my encounters with those older than me... Sigh. Wear your mask, people!). It’s a hard lesson to learn that sometimes, parents can be wrong, and even harder to learn how to know when they are right. I personally struggle with this from time to time, and I’ve known people who discount everything their parents say because of it.
My son was literally putting Chief in his crate, as I called her on the phone to let her know. She was mad I didn't get her approval beforehand! She did apologize later.
It is her dog, after all, whether she is acting maturely or not. And when I myself have acted oh so wonderfully, the issue was that I felt I was not being treated as an adult with her own opinion and ideas. Maybe not with that particular thing that I snapped about, but in other areas, too.

I will also add that there is a lot of pressure to be disrespectful towards the older generations (for example, the “ok boomer“ joke :rolleyes:) in both the Gen Z and Millennial generations. Whether or not this is the case here, I don’t know.

We young punks think we know everything. ;) But (don’t let my parents see this, lol) we do still need guidance. Hope you feel better soon!
 
#29 ·
Also, I will try to get a video up of the "play" as soon as possible. i'd really like the collective wisedom of PF to tell me if this is acceptable or not ( I know I can be over-protective). I will need to get my son to do it, since I am technologically challenged. With his classes starting up on-line and all the help he has to give me to adjust to on-line teaching, I'm gonna have to bribe him to take the time to do it!
 
#30 ·
Vita's last post was really good. I find it difficult sometimes to get across my meaning when typing it out. Sometimes what I think is common sense is not to another, lol. Families well are family and we all interact in our own way. I'm sure in the end it will all work out. Feel better soon.
 
#32 ·
It is her dog, after all, whether she is acting maturely or not.
I really don't agree, she is an adult who came to live in her moms house, she could go rent a room somewhere or pay rent for an apartment.
Young adult people living at home is kinda different, its a privilege not afforded to all, her moms house her moms rules. If she isn't happy with the rules well...I'm sure the doors are open for her to find her own place.
I have adult daughters who live at home, my house rules...don't like it your most welcome to go find an apartment and pay rent and all the rest that goes with it.
 
#33 ·
It is her dog, after all, whether she is acting maturely or not.
I really don't agree, she is an adult who came to live in her moms house, she could go rent a room somewhere or pay rent for an apartment.
Young adult people living at home is kinda different, its a privilege not afforded to all, her moms house her moms rules. If she isn't happy with the rules well...I'm sure the doors are open for her to find her own place.
I have adult daughters who live at home, my house rules...don't like it your most welcome to go find an apartment and pay rent and all the rest that goes with it.
You’re absolutely right; I was trying to explain where her feelings of frustration might be coming from, rather than excusing her actions. It isn’t right for her to be acting this way. Rules are rules. Sorry for the confusion.
 
#34 ·
I hope you're doing okay today, daabor, and didn't end up in the ER. I'm happy to hear your daughter is making an effort to be more understanding.

Floofy, I appreciate your perspective, and it got me thinking about something I only really feel I've learned in the past five years or so:

When you're in the "scolding" or discipline role, or even when you're just arguing with a partner and feel quite confident you're right, always leave an escape route. Never lock the door to a graceful exit, otherwise the other person has to fight harder because their back's to the wall.

Something as simple as "Let's figure this out together" can be like handing them a key.
 
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