Poodle Forum banner

1 - 20 of 79 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,307 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
... people never cease to amaze me but THIS family has sure shocked the hell out of me.

The short version of this dog's, his name is Robbie, history is that he was very very ill as a puppy. One of those OMG what happened here type of situations that breeders sometimes have to deal with. He was hospitalized for two weeks on fluids and super strong antibiotics and even had a blood transfusion. Nobody exected him to survive and we were literally 10 minutes from putting him down when he suddenly started trying to eat and then just continued to improve from there. When he got sick he already had a home waiting, one that seemed GREAT. They had purchased pet training at petsmart already, had a good refference from their vet,and the mom stayed at home and homeschooled the two children, both girls approx 7-11 in age. I don't remember their exact ages but I know one just turned 11 in Nov. Daddy is a well to do lawyer.

Ok, now while Robbie was sick and in my mind not likely to make it several difficult conversations had to take place with this family about perhaps getting a puppy from another litter. My mom had another litter on the ground that was 4 weeks younger, the one and only time she has ever bred two at a time like that and she learned her lesson. They refused, they wanted ROBBIE and no other would do - period. The girls made and sent get well soon cards to the vet clinic for robbie which were put on his kennel. The also wrote him letters while he was sick and included him on their churches prayer list and in their bedtime prayers. Sweet huh? Maybe it's what pulled him through? Who can say?
We got monthly letters from the girls that first year complete with photos saying how wonderful he was.

All was not well apparently. Come to find out They dropped out of their petsmart training class because it was embarassing that robbie barked at the other dogs so they didn't stick with the training. The barking at other dogs got worse and they had a trainer come in and do private lessons. The trainer told them Robbie was agressive and trying to be in control and gave them a choke chain AND a pinch collar for him to wear. They were also instructed to grab robbie by the scruff of the neck and slam (yes that is the word the trainer used - SLAM) him to the ground and growl at him and yell NO very sternly. No surprise that according to the owners the bahavior got worse. good job trainer person thanks for the help :)
Afterwards he actualy was put into a situation that gave him no choice but to bite the neighbor and supposedly he had also nipped the mom on the leg while trying to lunge and get to another dog. The neighbor, at mom's encouragement, cornered robbie grabbed his collar and tried to force him to accept petting from him and his children. Robbie freaked and with the option of flight taken away his only recourse was fight. Duh. Of course he growled first and was slammed to the ground, then the experiement repeated, no growl this time just a bite. Upon questioning the owner about his body lingo prior to the bite attempt (it was never clear to me whether or actualy made contact or not) he was giving every I'm uncomfortable please don't do this signal in the book :( He was punished by the lady by being jerked up by the leash and dangled over the sidewalk, then scruffed and rolled over with the bullcrap growling and NO!! Poor dog.

So we get an e-mail from lawyer daddy saying Robbie needs to come back to us. Yes sounds like he does. Mom calls later and says she's reconsidering ummk ? She gets refered to me and I do several phone consults with her. Got her away from the evil and frankly in my opinion abusive dog whisperer gone horribly wrong training methods and Robbie started to improve... so I was told. Though not fast enough for the lady. I finialy said look this is a problem that took a year for you to create. Could you send the dog back and have me fix it in three weeks, probably, can you do it youself in that time I don't know. Gradually the contact became less and less and I didn't hear anything for a while other than that he was doing fine.

So two weeks before thankgiving there is an e-mail from dad stating robbie NEEDS to be picked up asap. The mom calls to speak with one of us personaly and the story goes that robbie dashed out of the door in the garage and attacked a neighbors child, bit her several times in the leg and she was just standing there not even looking in his direction. A story I'd believe about the time I deliver a baby with green spikes and red eyes. Not going to argue of course, he must come home. Problem is they want him gone tonight and orlando is 6 hours away - sorry it's gonna have to be a weekend. So daddy threatened to take him to the shelter and hoped we got there before they put him down. Ummmk No, I wouldnt do that mr lawyer man, read your contract that YOU signed and see what the last paragraph says about breaking the agreement and part of said agreement states you cannot rehome the dog or take him to a shelter or leave him at a vet. It worked out, they didn't take him to the shelter and we were able to get him no trouble. I was of course very worried about the "attack" on the kid and what his behavior might be like and contacted another trainer in my area and set up a consult as well as a vet appt to give him a good once over and do blood work. Nothing showed up on the blood work btw.

Ok so thats a long story - sorry but you had to read that to read and understand this -THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS DOG!! I don't get it. Nothing and I mean NOTHING I do, and NOTHING the behaviorist I took him to does will generate any reaction at all from him. No agressive or fearful responses. He's a doll just like his sister who my mother still has. Gets along with EVERYONE in the household, got along just fine with both the poodles, didn't bother the cats either. Accepts and greets strangers on leash outside and offleash in the house as well. Went for a walk with my uncle the other day who had just met him five minutes prior, no bad leash manners and did his basic cues with no problems. Even Saleen wouldn't do that! I also cannot generate any type of response to the neighborhood kids when I walk him either. I even put him on a pinch collar and a choke chain wondering if that was the problem - Nothing. So long as I keep his attention he doesn't even bark at other dogs and that is really just an alarm type bark, one or two woof woofs and thats it. No lunging, growling, snapping, drooling - NOTHING!! I can't believe it. I've really tried to put this dog through the ringer and find anything and everything to push his stress level but can't get a rise out of him, he backs off and thats it. He doesn't want to be grabbed by the scruff he couches down and starts to roll over on his own and will pee, but thats understandable.

He's been here over a month now and is about as perfect and easy going as a dog can be. Little things are jumping out now about the above story. One it was always daddy who wanted the dog gone. A couple of things that the lady said over the phone recently makes me think there could be trouble in paradise so to speak and perhaps she was just getting the dog out of the line of fire. She's been in touch several times and made no mention of the girls either. Very unlike her. She also dropped the idea of getting a replacement for robbie almost right away. Knowing this lady's personality she isn't the type to flip like that and it makes me wonder.

I think they just dumped this dog :( After all he had been through he didn't deserve that and he didn't deserve the treatment he got to fix a simple barking problem. I have two videos of training sessions she sent them to me back when I first starting helping. He did bark at a passing person in the session and the trainer snatched him up by the neck and put him down to the ground really hard and got in his face. I didn't observe in either video the serious agression they were talking about just a stressed dog who relaxed a little when mom had the leash and was uptight with the trainer. I just don't get people. I also done get how a person like this lady who is all about all natural this and is super against any type of punishment concerning children could stand by and then participate with the type of dog training they were doing. That makes NO sense to me. I don't think the dad every really wanted the dog to begin with and he was never as happy about so maybe he managed to make her send him back? I don't get why he had to say in his e-mail that he attacked a little girl?? The story from mom was slightly different but basicly the same sort of like teenagers trying to come up with a cover when they've been out all night. Just a very weird and a slightly sad situation. Sad that we considered puting him down if they could provide documentation of the "attack" pictures of the bite, a doctors bill, anything that would say it really happened. I really pushed for them to go and take photos of the little girls legs so I could see what type of damage we were talking about here and make some important choices on whether or not to even evualate this dog. If he had really torn her to shreds or something I would think that is serious enough to consider euthanasia. No pictures or anything else ever appeared... I think that is strange also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,972 Posts
I don't find it surprising that he is doing fine w/ you, you're not the one who's been abusing him! I would want to give that "trainer" a major tongue lashing if I were you. I'm sure being around that type of training and that family made him neurotic. Poor baby, I'm glad he's w/ you and the family doesn't want him back.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,956 Posts
Dogs read and understand the most subtle body language imaginable. I believe Robbie was reading VOLUMES from this family that were not good and probably very contradictory (Mom liked him, Dad wanted him GONE, kids were ineffective either way) and he was probably quite confused and not comfortable in his own pack.

I do watch and respect Cesar Millan and I've seen episodes where the dog is a freak with it's uneducated family members but as soon as Cesar touches the leash, they are immediately a different dog - they can read and understand and are comfortable with what he is telling them with his body language and energy... Robbie has no reason to be a freak at your house - he understands you and you can read him!!

Hope all works out the way it's supposed to and Robbie finds the home he was meant to have!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,037 Posts
I agree with plumcrazy. It was the situation that he was in. At lest this is how it looks and seems. And I find it strange as well that there were never any photos or documentation of the bites. That should have been a given.
I hope that you are able to find him the best home !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
861 Posts
I don't find it surprising that he is doing fine w/ you, you're not the one who's been abusing him! I would want to give that "trainer" a major tongue lashing if I were you. I'm sure being around that type of training and that family made him neurotic. Poor baby, I'm glad he's w/ you and the family doesn't want him back.
I was thinking the same thing. Also probably all those months in a vet hospital probably didn't do him good mentally. Perhaps he associated that "pain" with the family, too, then went home to them and suffered greatly as they fumbled their way through "training" him. And I'm sure there's quite a dose of fiction in their story as well!

How does he do with children you introduce him to? This must be a hard situation b/c now you have this fantastic dog, but can you really rehome him to another family with kids, even though you truly believe these people were lying? Where do you go from here? Just curious what happens to dogs who are returned to the breeders, not trying to challenge you. I realized it sounds like that. Sorry! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,947 Posts
thats just horrendous =\\
I could NEVER imagine ((heaven forbid I have to return elphie to her breeder)) but I couldn't imagine saying she bit someone as the reason for her going back =[

that poor dog, it sounds like hes been threw HE** and back with those people
THANKFULLY hes out of that place and with you!!

but I'm curious with Bella...if they weren't "lying" ((it sounds to me that they have been fibbing...pretty hard))
would you feel secure placing him in a home with children? ((unless of course you're considering keeping him yourself :D ))
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,645 Posts
I read this whole thing and before I made comments I left and came back. The issue I have is that you automatically just assume that these people have done something to this puppy. It's possible that they haven't. I was in a similar situation where the puppy had one behavior with me and another with the breeder when he was there with her. I was BITTEN by a puppy and accused repeatedly of causing the dog to fear me therefore resulting in the bite. That couldn't be farther from the truth but there's nothing I would ever say or do to get that breeder to believe me. I was also told that I didn't care about him and that I should just give him up so that he could be put in a "better more loving situation." Do you have any idea how insulting that is to an owner to be told something like that when you've done nothing wrong and haven't created or caused the unwanted behaviors? This puppy sounds a lot like the one I had that was very submissive and because of that had fear issues that resulted in bad choices on his part to "protect" himself from things he viewed as threats. You cannot have a dog of this nature in a family enviornment. They just are not stable enough and as you mentioned they were first time dog owners so they trusted the advice of a dog trainer that had some questionable tactics but at least they went to a trainer to get help. It's very possible that the things they said are true. It's possible that they aren't and because this puppy can't talk and tell you what went on, you aren't ever going to know. The thing that really bothers me about this situation is that you are just assuming that it's all their fault. I realize that you took him back and you have done everything to elicite those same responses from him that they got and haven't gotten any but guess what? He might not do them with you because you are a new person and he hasn't had something happen in that new environment to cause him react the same. In dogs with submissive personalities like the puppy I had, it could be just a very random thing that caused fear or something unintentional like holding a muzzle while he's being groomed when he was teething that created pain and fear in the dog and later a very negative reaction.

My questions for you are, did you do temperament testing with this puppy before you let them take him? Is it possible that he has a mental disorder because of his health problems early on in life? If humans didn't intervene, many puppies that are born with problems wouldn't survive. Nature would take it's course and they would die and the mother would let them or kill them herself because of the instinct to only allow the fitest to carry on their bloodline. But we are humans and we have big hearts and we want to save creatures so we go to great lengths to do that. It's quite possible that by doing that we will end up with dogs that have unforseen mental problems because there aren't as obvious signs with puppies as there are with human babies. I believe that the puppy I had was a result of something similar and it's quite possible that he has a form of mental disorder as a result of being kept alive through human intervention. That's just my opinion take it for what you want.

Grabbing by the scruff of the neck and doing an alpha roll on a dog doesn't hurt them. I think that this trainer should have done a temperament test on the dog first though. I mean reactions out of fear can be mistaken as dominace reactions and then if you are treating the dog as a dominate when it's a submissive, you are going to create more fear and more fear reactions and make a situation really bad. Could be one of the causes here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,972 Posts
Kpoos, I had a feeling this thread would stike a nerve with you and I understand. However, Wonder said she had video of the training sessions and the "slamming" the dog to the ground was a quote. The very fact that any trainer would recommend a choke chain or pinch/prong collar for a Tibbie, proves he is an idiot, JMO. (I use a chain to walk Harley, but he is a Rottweiler, not a small brachycyphalic dog.) I blame the trainer more than anyone b/c IMO he encouraged this family to abuse the dog and make any behavioral problems worse. Then again, the owners did nothing to protect their dog. I don't care if you're the top Schutzhund or Obedience Competition trainer in the country. If your first advice is to grab either one of my dogs by the scruff and "slam" them to the ground, I'm going to tell you where to go. And God help you if you try it yourself. Also, Jasper bit you when he was quite young which is big deal to me. You didn't even have him long that long. You didn't stop taking him to obedience out of laziness and then find the first quack trainer available to fix the problem you created over months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Hmmmm...what strikes my cord is that owners are blamed too soon too often. I AM NOT IMPLYING anything about Wonder here :)- talking in general terms.

There are so many dogs exposed to the worst abuse possible who STILL do not bite or growl at their abusers OR rescuers when they come and are placed in new homes with no problem !!! Why ??? Because temperament is inherited in dogs and extremely submissive dog or extremely dominant dog are absolutely VERY hard to train - submissive even more so !!!! One can modify their behavior , but in essence, they will always have problems !

That said - I would be the first one to return a puppy that is showing extreme behavioral problems :smow:. I asked for a balanced puppy and payed a big chink of money for that.

Again - this has nothing to do with Wonder - just my view on "costumer" rights LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
KPoos, if you had read WonderPup's whole post, you would see that the words "alpha roll" were never used. It was "slam". The family Robbie belonged to were uneducated in dog ownership, and unfortunately Robbie suffered for it. Yes, good for them that they found a trainer to do private sessions, but dogs do bark and I'm pretty sure the Petsmart people would have understood, especially at a training class. I am so sorry to hear that you were bitten by a puppy, and I believe that you did nothing wrong, the puppy may have had mental problems or some other issue. But try to see the distinction between the two stories. Any time Robbie did something that his parents didn't like, he would be yelled at and slammed into the ground. Doing that will cause some issues with ANY dog, so yes, the people that enacted that insane "training" method are to blame.
Hmmmm...what strikes my cord is that owners are blamed too soon too often. I AM NOT IMPLYING anything about Wonder here :)- talking in general terms.

There are so many dogs exposed to the worst abuse possible who STILL do not bite or growl at their abusers OR rescuers when they come and are placed in new homes with no problem !!! Why ??? Because temperament is inherited in dogs and extremely submissive dog or extremely dominant dog are absolutely VERY hard to train - submissive even more so !!!! One can modify their behavior , but in essence, they will always have problems !

That said - I would be the first one to return a puppy that is showing extreme behavioral problems :smow:. I asked for a balanced puppy and payed a big chink of money for that.

Again - this has nothing to do with Wonder - just my view on "costumer" rights LOL
And from reading Wonder's post, it looks like she wanted the puppy to be returned, she didn't say: "Aww, you guys are crazy, my puppies would never do that. Just work it out."

JUST SAYIN'!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,481 Posts
I am glad he is doing much better and is clearly happier in his current home. :)(For now) This dog has been through a lot from the beginning....... I can see your frustration.

Wouldn't you think if the dog was that abused there would be some signs of this in your home? Maybe fear, cowering, barking? Also I have a friend... well a co-worker that was refunded and asked to leave petsmart because the dog was a disruption to other dogs and custmers - great dog but bad barking. Did these people use this "slam" and "hold" on the dog for all issues? That trainer is STUPID, :doh::doh: C. Millan does it when it's a sign of aggression or just out of control - it seems these people weren't getting the best advise at all....and add family problems on top is a bad mix!:eek:hwell:

What will be the time period he stays with you for asessment before he goes to a new home? I hope it wont be long poor guy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
[/QUOTE]
And from reading Wonder's post, it looks like she wanted the puppy to be returned, she didn't say: "Aww, you guys are crazy, my puppies would never do that. Just work it out."

JUST SAYIN'![/QUOTE]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is why I explicitly indicated that I was talking "in general terms" and that my post has nothing to do with Wonder :):):)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,307 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Kpoo's
As insulted as you may have been by the breeder you worked with previously I would probably be equally insulte by your reply if I had the energy today. Good thing I don't because really personal opinions are a silly thing to get upset and argue over. I can understand to an extent your viewpoint and after I take my magic pill (yay for the return of "the sickness") I will probably be even more laid back. You only know me via this forum and wouldn't know better which is understandable. You can assume all you'd like but you cannot really get to know somebody over the internet. So you don't have any way to really 100% know that I work very hard with my dogs and placing puppies in homes when we have litters, you don't know ther sweat and tears I've put into them, and you don't know how my puppies are raised and what testing (health and temperment) I do. I ask though Do YOU have any idea how upsetting it is to after all that have a family take on one of your puppies that was completely normal behavior wise, we wouldn't have let him go if he wasn't, and get serious behavior issues with him and then blame the dog and the breeder?? It's never the dog's fault, even in cases where there IS a medical issue, that isn't the dog's fault.

I am not making assumptions that they "did something to this puppy" on purpose, though like I metnioned her husband did video some of the training and I was upset by what I saw. I am relaying my observations. Yes he was temperment tested, we do that. Nobody told these owners that they didn't care about their dog, though it was explained that dogs with real bite histories may not be able to be rehomed. So they really shouldn't put him in a situation where that was likely to happen. Had his behavior been extremely serious and had they provided proof of the bites he supposedly inflicted he would by default not be a dog we were even consider rehoming.

This puppy does not have an underlying mental or medical problem. We did consider that perhaps something was abnormal. it can happen sure. Nothing is impossible after all. We can't find one though. This is why I consulted a more experienced behaviorist (I'm a certified trainer, not a behaviorist - there is a differnce) and sent him for testing at the vet. Behavior IS an owners fault 99% of the time. I don't exclude myself here I have had dogs I've messed up with and accidently created problems with. Saleen is a good example actualy. She is a little retarded on her social skills and thats my fault, I wasto busy hanging over the toilet to deal with a developing fearful of strangers all of a sudden situation. Now I have extra work to do and have discovered she dislikes children, like REALLY dislikes children. Behavior is learned - period. Temperment is more inherited and is a different thing. The dog was comletely normal behavior wise when he left and was normal aside from barking for the better part of a year. (Tibbies can be barky by the way though he was a quite puppy when he left) Then the barking began to escalate according the the family and the private trainer was called in. You are correct that scruffing a dog does no harm however it also does little to no good. Do you scruff you kids, shake, and push them to the ground or roll them over? I hope not. Dogs are not wolves, and people are not dogs. This is where the concept of asserting yourself in this way over your dog falls apart. Dogs don't think like people and you didn't teach them that you are in charge with that little stunt, you taught them you are unpredictable or worse that whatever situation was occuring means trouble for them. Education makes all the difference in this instance.

We will have to agree to disagree on your opinions on keeping dogs with fear issues.
Fear is a learned behavior, any behavior that is learned can be unlearned or an alternative behavior can be learned. I don't know what your qualifications are and don't inted to insult or start and argument here but suffice it to say Im a professional. I don't know what you do for a living but for me this is it. I've been training far longer than I've been a groomer. Just because I dont have a TV show doesnt mean I dont know what I'm talking about. I'll keep my Ceasar comments to myself, I've made them clear in the past :) If I had to pick a TV personality I'd have to say I'm firmly in the victoria stillwell frame of mind when it comes to trainng I'm afraid. *insert your chuckle here because this post is supposed to be easy going and laid back and if you've watch her show the comment is mildly funny* The fear issues in your puppy regaurdless of their cause most likely could have been worked on and worked through. I don't know what you may have done/tried to fix the issue with the puppy you mentioned and unless I missed it in your post I don't know if you kept the puppy or had to send him back. The breeder was wrong IMO to approch the situation by telling you that he needed a more loving home, that IS insulting, but they were likely correct that he needed a different home where the owner and family had the time and resources to work through the issue. There were better ways to say it. Robbie needs a better home... and I dearly wish Nicholas wasn't so close to arriving or I would be sorely tempted to keep him. He'd make a great therapy dog and he's very much like Wonder in that he likes to do tricks. He's just a big 'ol dope, the best way I can discribe him is to compare him to that sterotype of the goofy irish setter or golden retrieve. The trip while running and face plant into the carpet and then get up with that "I ment to do that" look. He's a laugh.

We will also have to agree to disagree on human intervention keeping puppies alive. By your statement Wonder shouldn't be alive... An opinion Im afraid I cannot look past or forgive. Sorry.
I will say that my thoughts are as breeder you kind of get to play god in a way. We put two and two together and create life, it doesn't happen on it's own. Breedings are controled from every aspect when you think about it from when, to where, to who and even to how. Oftentimes it's done via artifical means. SHAME ON any breeder who will stand aside and let a puppy die. You brought them into the world it is your responsibility to give them the best shot possible. When things go wrong it's your responsibility to do everything to can to fix the problem. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and views and like I said I will respectfuly disagree with yours.
Also one more thing, dogs do not come equipeted with esp or x-ray vision in spite of what many uneducated people seem to think. People go on and on about survival of the fittest and say that if a mother rejects a puppy it is because she just knows there is something wrong with it. Sorry, thats not true and a good breeder would know that and be able to evaulate the situation and figure out why the puppy was rejected. Puppies get rejected for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with their health, again a good breeder knows that. Rejection however will result in death in a very young puppy. Should a perfectly healthy puppy with some bad luck die? No. I have equally strong opinions on culling in litters but they don't really apply here.

Robbie was not born with health issues, he and his two litter mates became ill about 3 days after their first vaccination with virus unknown. It behaved like a bit like parvo but testing said it wasn't. We keep things clean and disinfected as much as possible and this bug apparently slipped through the cracks? One of our adult dogs became ill with it as well a couple of days before the puppies began to show symptoms. Robbie and his sister recovered. Henry who was my puppy, seemed to be making a recovery but we didn't know what we were dealing with and he had an internal hemorage and died. As much as that hurt it probably saved Robbie we knew what the next step was likely to be and were on the lookout and were prepared for it. The adult dog who was ill never got nearly as sick as the two puppies and neither did Heather. She recovered quickly. As soon as Robbie was sent home and strong enough to be given the all clear for walks and outdoor activities we started working with his social skills since he was right at the age where that was becoming important. He wasn't shut away for months or anything and he I worked really hard on getting him used to other animals, again after he was cleared by the vet and had his second shot. He was very humanized so to speak and loved people.

What happened in his doggy mind between the time he went home and five months ago I don't know. You're right that he cannot talk. He can tell me a lot but not everything and not what really happened.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,307 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Hey I'm not really insulted or anything by the way. That post above wasn't supposed to be so long, I don't know how that happen. Why in heaven's name I cannot finish writing a book I don't understand... Maybe I should start a thread and write each chapter here ont he forum ROFL. I might get it done then.

To Bella and Keith,
NO Robbie will not be rehomed in a family with Children. You never can be to careful. Actualy none of our future dogs will go to homes with children from now on. Children are more important to most people than their dog
SIDE NOTE: please pray for me here, I really need it, cause I don't know for sure that Nicholas WILL be more important. I dearly afraid of that and it speaks very poorly of me as a future parent. What kind of mother am I going to be... ? lol.

As for how Robbie reacts to the children he's been introduced with so far he's been GREAT. He really seems to like kids. He's the dog that wants to climb up into a lap and do a little face licking. Now obviously I didn't allow that at first but over the past month he's proven himself to be OK. He is also not bothered by running around and screaming that my nextdoor neighbors little boy does. He want to join in and will sometimes try and will bark when I don't let him. He runs to the end of the leash and then runs back and bounces off my legs and barks, wagging the whole time.

I've also had a couple of non dog savy people take him on a leash with supervision, my neighbor for instance. She is nervous walking the dog but Robbie doesn't react. It possible that he would over a long period of time ?

Ollie I don't think the dog was abused persay, only that the so called training was abusive in my opinion. There are people who would see nothing at all wrong with what was happening here. He DID react when I touched the back of his neck while he was on lead. I did it on purpose to see what would happen. I intended to take him by the scruff gently but never got that far before he gave me what I needed to know. He does react to passing dogs and people walking by but it's not the reaction I was led to believe it was. As I said, it's an alarm bark and he doesn't lunge at the end of the leash. He may go out to the end of the length he has been given but it isn't a lunge. As soon as I call for his attention though I have it and the behavior is done.
I spoke to the trainer at petsmart, she gave me the number and the name of the guy, and I cheated and used my past petsmart connections to get the info I wanted five months ago. Thankfuly he was like me when I worked there and kept notes on all his classes, and was able to look up Robbie. He tried very hard to get them to stay either in group training or in private training and they would not.

He will stay here as long as it takes. We are looking at two homes from him for after the new year. I would perfer to keep him very close, as in right here in the area, if I can. There is a home here with an experienced owner who has two other tibbies in the household. The other is with a member of my aunt's extended family and is in Texas. I am leaning towards that one at the moment.

Chelicerae thats correct I did want the dog returned and I had a feeling five months ago that this wasn't going to work and he needed to come back. She insisted she wanted to try and so I provided all the help I could and tried to refer her to another training. After seeing the videos I really really pushed for the dog to come home right then but backed off since she seemed so willing to work on this. Our puppy contract states that we will take a puppy back at any point in it;s lifetime for any reason and also says that if you find yourself unable or unwilling to keep your dog he MUST be returned. He cannot be rehomed by you or taken a shelter. If you cannot for whatever reason return him to us then he is to be placed in the care of tibetan spaniel rescue. Dogs also do not become part of an owner's estate should they pass away and must be returned or turned over the tibbie rescue then as well. We had a problem four years ago with a dog that outlived her owner and her children were fighting over the estate. First it was come get the dog right this second she's going to the shelter in the morning, then it was No no, we're keeping the dog (uhhh no you aren't). Then it was fine but we want 1,000 dollars to sell the dog back to you because it is a champion show dog after all. ROFL, yeah I know that dude I finished her title and we adopted her out as an adult for 100 bucks to cover part of her spay. I have the a copy of the adoption agreement, a copy of the check, and by the way goober I STILL OWN her and have her papers. He was also a lawyer come to think of it (we had to get out lawyer involved to resolve the situation), maybe I should be more careful about adopting to lawyers and their families. ROFL. No offense intended by the way, joke ha ha laugh...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,947 Posts
He was also a lawyer come to think of it (we had to get out lawyer involved to resolve the situation), maybe I should be more careful about adopting to lawyers and their families. ROFL. No offense intended by the way, joke ha ha laugh...
hahaha
it sounds like you have AWFUL luck with lawyers xDDD

I personally think it all turned out for the best. for you, robbie, and the family!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,481 Posts
He was also a lawyer come to think of it (we had to get out lawyer involved to resolve the situation), maybe I should be more careful about adopting to lawyers and their families. ROFL. No offense intended by the way, joke ha ha laugh...
Um yeah! Addendum to the contract lol!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,645 Posts
I'll have to come back and read the entire posts (because they are really long) but I just came here to say that I disagree with you on many points but that's just differences of opinion and the way you raise your child might be different than the way I raise mine as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,481 Posts
My brother is a die hard Dobie lover, dog lover in general. About 14 years ago he and his wife had a son. At the time they had 2 Dobies and a GR - Sandy (which is not doing well :( ) Anyway once little Timmy came his Dobie seemed to have lost his mind........he became very aggressive and territorial over his wife - it was really sad to watch and for about 2 months he was in the crate most of time because the baby was priority as it would be im my home.:)

They had NO choice but to rehome the dog.:eek:hwell: It happens it's unfortunate but he made sure the dog went to a good home and they went on with their family. I have to say I would NEVER chose my dog over my child. Once yours is born you will see and if there are issues you will do whats right.
 
1 - 20 of 79 Posts
Top