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Discussion Starter #1
I have a puppy that is black and white parti, with phantom face with brown eyebrows and brown on his ears. I plan on breeding him later, just wondering what is the best choice of mate. Would a phantom be a good pairing with him?
 

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There are many questions you should ask before color. Do you have full AKC or UKC registration, so that you can register the puppies? Which health screenings have you done? The list goes on...
 

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I'd recommend asking that question to your mentor after the dog is confirmed to be a good breeding aspect. Color is not the determining factor when breeding a dog. Health screenings, registration, temperament, conformation, etc... Those are the things you should look for before considering color.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
There are many questions you should ask before color. Do you have full AKC or UKC registration, so that you can register the puppies? Which health screenings have you done? The list goes on...
Yes I have full rights AKC. I plan on doing full health testing also, when he is old enough. But I am also interested in buying a female, so that's why I am asking to know what I should look for in a pup. I currently have a 2 yr old
There are many questions you should ask before color. Do you have full AKC or UKC registration, so that you can register the puppies? Which health screenings have you done? The list goes on...
Yes, I have full AKC rights. Yes, I plan on doing health testing also. I already have one poodle that is 2.5 yrs old. I do not plan on breeding
I'd recommend asking that question to your mentor after the dog is confirmed to be a good breeding aspect. Color is not the determining factor when breeding a dog. Health screenings, registration, temperament, conformation, etc... Those are the things you should look for before considering color.
Well, I plan oni plan
I'd recommend asking that question to your mentor after the dog is confirmed to be a good breeding aspect. Color is not the determining factor when breeding a dog. Health screenings, registration, temperament, conformation, etc... Those are the things you should look for before considering color.
I'd recommend asking that question to your mentor after the dog is confirmed to be a good breeding aspect. Color is not the determining factor when breeding a dog. Health screenings, registration, temperament, conformation, etc... Those are the things you should look for before considering color.
I plan on doing all of those, however I am looking to buy a female, and parents have been tested and so will poodle as
 

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If I had a female and was looking for a stud I would pay good money for breeding there are certain things I would be looking for. I would want some certainty that the dog is more than "a poodle". For instance, titles. I would expect him to be titled in something. Since he is not a solid color he cannot be shown in AKC conformation, but he can be shown in agility and other sports. Parti color is accepted in UKC, so a conformation title in UKC would be acceptable to me.
 

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Sorry, this phone is aggravating. It isnt allowing me to backspace and delete a letter at a time and then posts my reply. But, I cant do all the testing on my male until he is older, but I want to buy a female also. What I am wondering should I look for a phantom parti or maybe a brindle or even a phantom from a reputable breeder. Yes, I want good healthy dogs, but I also want a a female that would pair good with him. I want to raise them as pets, from puppies. If something fails on health testing, then I won't breed. But, this just a color question, not about what I need to do. I will do what I need to do when the time is appropriate.
 

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Why do you want to breed your male dog? Are you prepared for the possibility that making him a stud dog can lead to marking in the house, aggression toward other male dogs, an urge to wander, and some other not so wonderful behaviors? Unless a dog is far above average quality and has tested clear of all genetic diseases, it is best to never breed them. I strongly agree with Michigan Gal - anyone looking to breed their female would do well to look for a titled dog with a flawless health/genetic background.
 

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No disrespect, to you at all. But I'm not worried about titles. Just healthy, good temperaments and pets. I currently own a non registered poodle also which is 2.5 yrs old. She is very obedient, great temperament, and she is my best friend. Alot of people want quality healthy beautiful pets, not just titles. I had seriously thought about putting my female in agility, however where I'm at there is not much opportunity unless you like to travel far all the time.
 

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Why do you want to breed your male dog? Are you prepared for the possibility that making him a stud dog can lead to marking in the house, aggression toward other male dogs, an urge to wander, and some other not so wonderful behaviors? Unless a dog is far above average quality and has tested clear of all genetic diseases, it is best to never breed them. I strongly agree with Michigan Gal - anyone looking to breed their female would do well to look for a titled dog with a flawless health/genetic background.
Also, why I want to breed. Well, 2 5 yrs ago I got my non registered female poodle. I have had many dogs, but none like her. Her and I are inseparable. She is my best friend and I wouldn't take a million dollars for my $600 pup. Every one who knows me knows how special my dog is to me. So this is why I want to breed. I love the breed, they are the only dog I would every own. Every one who know me, says I missed my calling when it comes to dogs. I would like to breed solid, healthy, great temperaments dogs as pets for other people. Do I plan on owning slews of dogs.. NO. I have 2 dogs and plan on getting 1 more. That's all I will ever do because they need the attention that they deserve to have. My dogs are never outside except to play or use the bathroom. My dogs go everywhere with me on camping trips, boating. There is also a lot of people like me in the world that wants a healthy, good temperament, and just a dog as a great pet. Also, there is no other male dogs close to me. I live in the country. My dogs don't wonder because they are not outside without me. Behaviors I can correct. I'm very good at training dogs.
 

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As a group here on PF, we tend to prefer well structured breeding programs, where the breeder has a deep understanding of the genetics of his/her breeding dogs and how well they meet conformation standards. What you're proposing is against the grain here, and you may not find a lot of support unless you find a mentor and work to educate yourself.

If you're serious about breeding, here's a quick guide to phantom color genetics. Many breeders are adopting BetterBred metrics when considering pairings. The main thrust of the information is that it would be best to wait until you know your dog's genetics and suitability for breeding before considering who to mate him with. He may be valuable as a stud dog, and the typical fee is the cost of one puppy.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If I had a female and was looking for a stud I would pay good money for breeding there are certain things I would be looking for. I would want some certainty that the dog is more than "a poodle". For instance, titles. I would expect him to be titled in something. Since he is not a solid color he cannot be shown in AKC conformation, but he can be shown in agility and other sports. Parti color is accepted in UKC, so a conformation title in UKC would be acceptable to me.
If I had a female and was looking for a stud I would pay good money for breeding there are certain things I would be looking for. I would want some certainty that the dog is more than "a poodle". For instance, titles. I would expect him to be titled in something. Since he is not a solid color he cannot be shown in AKC conformation, but he can be shown in agility and other sports. Parti color is accepted in UKC, so a conformation title in UKC would be acceptable to me.
Well my males mother was 5 in ukc last year. But I'm looking more for healthy poodles as peoples pets. I already have one who is not registered and that is why I fell in love with the breed. Health testing is a must. But, I'm looking to purchase a female to raise with him as a puppy. When they get older and need all of their testing like hips and elbows ect. I will do it and if they dont pass their testing I wont breed and will just have 2 great pets. Really this is just a color question. Not a breeding lesson.
 

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What are the goals of your breeding program? What faults dows your male have? What makes him exceptional? What are you doing to improve the breed as a whole? These were all questions my own dogs breeder was more than happy to answer, and had a good answer for as well.

This forum is historically pretty unfriendly and unhelpful towards people wishing to breed without titling, or asking questions about breeding that can be answered with googling. Most people here dont consider colour the first thing to lookfor when breeding, and people get their backs up.

Personally, i wont buy a dog now without proof its parents were shown in some dog sport - conformation, obedience, agility, etc. And i just want a wellmannered pet. I consider it proof that they can achieve something, and someone other than the owner thinks they are good dogs. And proof the breeder is interested in producing the best dogs they can. Most of the dogs in a litter end up in pet homes. I would want a CGC title too, probably, if they have agility titles but no obedience or conformation titles, to prove the dog can be calm and well mannered.

It sounds like you are interested in producing non standard colours. For a more helpful answer, what colours were the parents, what colours does genetic testing indicate your male dog carries? What are the inheritance mechanisms of those colours? What colours do you wish to produce? There are tons of resources to learn about these things and more in some of the breeding forum links. -
 

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Also, why I want to breed. Well, 2 5 yrs ago I got my non registered female poodle. I have had many dogs, but none like her. Her and I are inseparable. She is my best friend and I wouldn't take a million dollars for my $600 pup. Every one who knows me knows how special my dog is to me. So this is why I want to breed. I love the breed, they are the only dog I would every own. Every one who know me, says I missed my calling when it comes to dogs. I would like to breed solid, healthy, great temperaments dogs as pets for other people. Do I plan on owning slews of dogs.. NO. I have 2 dogs and plan on getting 1 more. That's all I will ever do because they need the attention that they deserve to have. My dogs are never outside except to play or use the bathroom. My dogs go everywhere with me on camping trips, boating. There is also a lot of people like me in the world that wants a healthy, good temperament, and just a dog as a great pet. Also, there is no other male dogs close to me. I live in the country. My dogs don't wonder because they are not outside without me. Behaviors I can correct. I'm very good at training dogs.
Breeding and raising puppies is very expensive and time consuming. Things can and often do go wrong, especially for novice breeders. I have had an experience with a problem called "fading puppy syndrome" where, one by one, the puppies die. No one knows why this occurs, but I just read that the average percentage of deaths in a litter is 30%. Even if all goes well, veterinary costs can be pretty expensive - worming, removing dewclaws, docking tails (optional - and few vets do it well), immunizations - it all adds up. If things do not go well it can get very expensive very fast and things can end tragically.

I can give you many, many more reasons, but I hope this is enough to make you think long and hard about breeding. If you are determined to go ahead, do try to find someone with a great deal of experience to mentor you.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
As a group here on PF, we tend to prefer well structured breeding programs, where the breeder has a deep understanding of the genetics of his/her breeding dogs and how well they meet conformation standards. What you're proposing is against the grain here, and you may not find a lot of support unless you find a mentor and work to educate yourself.

If you're serious about breeding, here's a quick guide to phantom color genetics. Many breeders are adopting BetterBred metrics when considering pairings. The main thrust of the information is that it would be best to wait until you know your dog's genetics and suitability for breeding before considering who to mate him with. He may be valuable as a stud dog, and the typical fee is the cost of one puppy.
Thank you. My question is if I am looking to breed way down the road. My pups mother was #5 in UKC last year. I am wanting to learn and I know the ins and outs of breeding. I plan on doing all health testing when appropriate. But, I want a female to raise with him as a puppy. If when they are of age and do not pass health requirements I will not breed. I will just have 2 new best friends
 

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I've also had a litter of pups before of 11 and know what can go wrong. I had to bottle feed many of them and they were all raised in my home. But this time I want to do it correctly with all of the required testing( which I already know what I need to do) but colors is something I am trying to learn more about in pairing him
 

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Thank you, that's reassuring. As you can imagine, we get a lot of strange requests here, and sometimes we react defensively based on these experiences.
 

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Yes, if you want phantom puppies you improve your chances by starting with two phantom parents. However, all kinds of recessives can get in there to mess things up. My parti-phantoms weren't supposed to be parti. One parent was black with cream, the other black with red. No white on either parent. The litter had colors ranging from solid cream to brown & cream phantom to tri-colors. Quite the rainbow.
 

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Can you talk with the pup's mum's owner/breeder (whoever got her to UKC #5) about mentorship?
 

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Can you talk with the pup's mum's owner/breeder (whoever got her to UKC #5) about mentorship?
I just spoke with her, thanks
Thank you, that's reassuring. As you can imagine, we get a lot of strange requests here, and sometimes we react defensively based on these experiences.
I'm sure you do, I should of been more thorough with my original post. My poodles will be pets first, and if I breed they will have all necessary testing and will be raised in my home.
 
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