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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am taking Otter to 2 classes now,same school. Since I don't want to ask all of my other trainers (to avoid MORE conflicts:ahhhhh:),and I have been stressing on this since Sunday...

Long down-Otter sniffs. Sunday trainer says give him collar pops,but don't say anything. (As I am hardwired to say "No Sniff!" ,this is not likely to work :alberteinstein:) My question is..if I don't say anything,how does he know WHAT I am correcting? And isn't popping the collar going to make him get up and perhaps come to me? Now this is a very successful trainer who just relocated from another state to work at our school,so she DOES know what she is doing; Don't know how experienced she is w/poodles. And I don't want to waste our class time debating this issue,so...

What say you,Spoo trainers!

Martha
 

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I vote for leave it or no sniff. A collar pop would make Javelin think about breaking position. I would take a step in as I said it. A collar pop will break him out of what he is doing but I would start with a verbal and then once his down stay is firmer them maybe couple a gentle tug on the leash followed by dropping the verbal.
 
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I vote for leave it as well. Also, practice long down as a head-up activity at home. Set your timer for 10 seconds, ask for a down, walk away and see if he can have his head off the floor for 10 seconds. Keep a treat in your mouth so he will be looking at your face the whole time.

When the timer ends, instead of walking behind him, like you do in class, walk directly up to him and reward his down in front while he is down. Then continue to walk around him and reward like you would in class. This way he gets rewarded twice, once for looking you in the face, and once for the long stay.

Next time, try 15 seconds. Then try 20. Inch up in five second increments until he's lying down and staring at you with his head up. Can't hold your head up and sniff the floor, Otter.
 

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Click that is a great idea!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes,his major issue is attention! Last night ,we did long sits/downs w/2nd class,and Otter was next to a Belgian Malinois he didn't know and shifted himself to face her! He so wants to play,and she was "help me,Mom,he is crazy!":2in1:. I SHOULD have made him straighten up,but I just shifted myself to stand between them..next time,he goes right back to position!

I frequently heel with a cheese ball in my mouth to keep him looking at me!

Now to think of something to say Sunday,when trainers corrects us..how about "that didn't work for me."?

:amen:
 

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That didn't work for me sounds like a decent reply.


Speaking from the trainer side of the fence I would not mind a handler saying something like that if I then also saw that their alternate strategy worked for them. However if what they now do isn't working any better I might wonder what was the story. There is a guy who comes to my friend's Tuesday morning open class. He is a nice guy with a nice working mini Aussie. He is having a couple of problems, but instead of trying what my friend or I suggest he just keeps letting the dog rehearse incorrect performance of the problem exercises. Here is one example. The dog does not come back over the high jump if the throw went off to the side of the jump and put the dog's line of sight off the jump after the pick up. When the dog starts to go around the jump he just tells the dog no or even lets the dog come to front and takes the dumbbell and says good boy. Huh? My friend has told him to go closer to the jump and to keep the throws short to reinforce returning over the jump first. Once that is solid she told him to go back to his regular distance for the throw and to throw slightly to the side on purpose and tell the dog over. She wants him to step up to the jump, tap it and tell the dog over as the dog makes the pick up and to then step back from the jump to get him to commit to returning over the jump. That will work if he is consistent. I also suggested that he invest in a flexi and to lower the jump and work closer to the jump as a way to get rid of the bugs, but he isn't really doing either of those things and the problem isn't being resolved. Every mistake just makes it more and more likely this will always be a problem. Both my friend and I are a little frustrated since in my view at least the handler just seems to think his way will work eventually (with eventually being the really problematic word). Actually my experience with this team goes back probably close to two years when he CGC tested with me and did not pass the supervised separation. It wasn't even close. the dog was truly miserable and was writhing around at the end of the leash pulling hard to get back to dad. It was the same over and over when we practiced it to see if we could get him to pass. I am not sure he ever worked on it anyplace other than at the club with me. Handler's response was but he does it at home!
 
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Well, that must be painful to watch. That, right there, is an example of what not being teachable looks like. To be teachable you must:

A. Assume you need instruction.
B. Comprehend instruction.
C. Implement instruction.

There's a breakdown in that three step process with this student. Until he arrives at point A, there's only so much you can do.
 

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The long down has all three sides of the dog training triangle:

1. Duration = 1 minute
2. Distance = 6 feet
3. Distraction = OMG DOGS! Look at all the dogs. Hi, I'm Otter. Let me see if I can scoot over toward you, 'cause I feel kinda rude talking to you from all the way over here.

Noelle needs me to break the three D's into three different pieces, and work on each piece separately before I put them together. Duration is inched up in five second increments while I stand right there. Then I put together duration and distance, inching up a foot at a time. Once Noelle can stay for a full minute with me a foot away, then it's time to train with distractions.

Unfortunately, dog class gets this equation backward, because we go to classes with heavy distraction to learn new behaviors from our trainers. About 6 months ago, I decided classes were only for learning to handle distraction, and practicing making eye contact no matter what. Nothing else in class matters. Did Noelle pay attention? Yes, what an awesome class.

Break the long down into three pieces and train all three, then when you finally bring the pieces together, Otter will amaze you, because Otter is AWESOME!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
He IS! He usually rocks his rally portion,because it is just him and Mom. For a beginner class,we usually do excellent and master's signs-last week we had double left about,halt and circle around,TWO send to cone(s)...IF we make it to competition stage,he will move right along.Another hitch is we never practice on lead at home-too much trouble for the 4' one way,6' the other in which I can practice- so leads get in my way!:aetsch: I also expect a lot of him,as I did w/Che,I admit.

My Sunday class is comprised of both people who have NEVER trained before,and us old-timers who have been at it for decades,if not with the same breed.New trainer does not know me well,so my training "quirks", such as I do not ever do a down from a sit (unless the rally sign requires),rattle her a bit-she doesn't think I am ready when Otter is still standing:ahhhhh:. We will reach the understanding point,I'm sure!
 
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