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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello there,
first of all, thank you to everyone for posting here, such an amazing community.
So, I (28, Female, no kids) am looking to get a toy poodle... or a maltipoo. I know this will cause a visceral reaction in many if not most - people seem to get angry even at the mention of the poodle crosses and I get it. I will list what I am looking for and prepared to give to my furry friend, and let me know if you have any thoughts or advice at all :)
What matters:
  • Size --> I travel occassionally, sometimes go away for the summer, and I'd take my dog with me, of course. I am not ok with the cargo hold so the dog needs to go on the plane with me. In some airlines the max height of the bag is around 24 cm, so the maltipoo would def fit. The toy poodle --> I guess most of them, too.
  • Separation anxiety --> I do NOT plan to leave my dog alone for hours and hours on end, but I do live a fairly dynamic life and I would want to take the dog with me to most places (this, again, is easier with a smaller dog). However, SOMETIMES, there may be occasions I need to leave it alone for a while (3 hours?). I do have a boyfriend with a remote work and a friend in my building who's willing to help but if they are both out, I need to know this is possible. I have friends with maltipoos and they leave them for 3-4 hours or so, but all the toy poodle breeders I speak to say toy poodles have insane sep anxiety and can not be left alone.
  • Health - of course. I'd go for a KC registered toy poodle, but for maltipoos understandably it is difficult to know what you're getting

I am prepared to give a lot of time, patience, and love to my dog. I decided now is the time - I lost my last dog in 2018, a min pin, and I couldn't bear myself to have another dog but it's been almost 3 years and I'm ready.

Occasionally I'd also love to take my pup to my work, which, again, I know a lot of people do with toy maltipoos, not sure re toy poodles. I do not want a "bag" dog but the dog being transportable is important, equally I would love walks in the park and hikes with my dog.
My min pin was a big dog in a small dog's body so he is not IMO a true TOY breed. That thing had the energy of a big dobermann.

Lastly, I have also been having issues with breeders. Of course, there are no "proper" maltipoo breeders but I seemed to have found a good one who cares a lot for her pups. She did demand a non refundable deposit which I stupidly paid but the next day.... the pup died. She said it was puppy fading syndrome. She doesn't seem sketchy as a lot of high profile people buy from this breeder but not even sure that counts for much. Would this be a red flag for you?

Thank you so much for any thoughts.

Edit: thank you all for the thoughtful replies. I think toy poodle it is, I am very much deterred of all poodle crosses now, I would have been so disappointed had I found out all this info later. Here's to finding a good toy poodle breeder with a litter coming up in the next year!!
 

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  • Size --> . - You will not know how big a mutt will get. I've seen "maltipoos" ranging from 20m-34cm.. toy poodles should not be any taller 25"cm, mostly they range smaller than that.
  • Separation anxiety --> - toy poodles are not known to have separation anxiety tendencies. If you get a toy from a reputable breeder, they should have stable temperaments.
  • Health - of course. --> - I do not know of a SINGLE doodle breeder who does the appropriate health testing. I know several toy poodle breeders who do.


As far as "fading syndrome" I have never heard of it before. I know lots of breeders, so immediately I am confused. I googled it and "Fading Puppy Syndrome is not a specific disease or diagnosis, but a description of signs that may be due to environmental factors, genetic causes or infectious agents. It is used to describe a puppy that appears normal at birth, but “fades” - fails to grow and thrive during the first weeks of life."... I don't think a puppy should just die, especially due to environmental causes. Most reputable breeders don't experience many puppy deaths
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you so m
  • Size --> . - You will not know how big a mutt will get. I've seen "maltipoos" ranging from 20m-34cm.. toy poodles should not be any taller 25"cm, mostly they range smaller than that.
  • Separation anxiety --> - toy poodles are not known to have separation anxiety tendencies. If you get a toy from a reputable breeder, they should have stable temperaments.
  • Health - of course. --> - I do not know of a SINGLE doodle breeder who does the appropriate health testing. I know several toy poodle breeders who do.


As far as "fading syndrome" I have never heard of it before. I know lots of breeders, so immediately I am confused. I googled it and "Fading Puppy Syndrome is not a specific disease or diagnosis, but a description of signs that may be due to environmental factors, genetic causes or infectious agents. It is used to describe a puppy that appears normal at birth, but “fades” - fails to grow and thrive during the first weeks of life."... I don't think a puppy should just die, especially due to environmental causes. Most reputable breeders don't experience many puppy deaths
Thank you so much!! This is so helpful. I agree with you. Yes, she said the puppy did not exhibit any signs of illness and then at around 3/4 weeks just passed away. Odd!!! Thank you for replying.
 

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I think it's impossible to tell how a mixed breed will end up, either physically or temperament wise. So if you want to know what dog you’re getting, get a purebred. Poodle or other. My opinion on « doodles » is that they are scams : mutts with a fancy name to make more money. Not so long ago these dogs were given for free or sold for 50$.

Poodles in general are not dogs who do well when left alone for too long because they are very close to their humans, but any well adjusted dog will tolerate being alone sometimes, as long as you get them used to it early and correct problems if need be. This is not just a poodle thing; any dog has to be taught.
 

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Welcome, @ScoobyDoo1992! And I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your newborn puppy:

Here is a detailed analysis of fading puppy syndrome:


As you can see, it’s not all that uncommon and can be the result of myriad factors.

But I still think you’re best to go with a small preservationist breeder, who is going to ensure you’re getting the best traits of your desired breed. For more information on what to look for in a toy poodle breeder (including appropriate health testing), this site was recently recommended in other thread for buyers in the UK: Champdogs Guide to Buying a Puppy
 

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I don't know much about Maltipoos, but I have a very similar lifestyle to what you described, and added a toy poodle to my life late last year. She has been nothing more than an angel and any dog will add so much love and happiness to your family. Even with a toy poodle, size is unpredictable...her parents were both in size, about 7-8 pounds and she is still sitting at 3.5 pounds lol. I guess it is what it is! Good news is she has flown on a plane 4 times in less than 6 months and has been so easy to manage. I have no problem leaving her alone, even though she is very attached, although I do have resources for a sitter if she is home all day. Even though she is so small, she was spayed at 6 months, and recovered more easily than all my friends dogs. She hasn't had any health issues whatsoever, although I hear teeth can be an issue with the small babies and joints-- you can do your best to go with a reliable breeder to prevent that, but ultimately health issues can arise in even what seems to be a healthy puppy. Again, I know nothing about maltipoos, but I can say based on my experience a toy poodle would be a great fit for your needs.
 

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I have had 4 mixed breed dogs in my life. Two were cocker spaniel/poodle mixes, and both were fantastic dogs. One, though, had major health issues, but she lived a very long life. The last 2 poodles mixes in my life had major personality/behavioral and health issues. One was a rescue and the other came from a breeder. My maltese/poodle mix is still living, and I love him dearly, but I would never go the route of getting a poodle mix again, unless from a rescue. It would be very challenging to find an ethical "maltipoo" breeder. Why not research the maltese and poodle breed and determine which breed would be best for you? You might also look into the havanese breed.
 

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Hi and Welcome!

My min pin was a big dog in a small dog's body so he is not IMO a true TOY breed. That thing had the energy of a big dobermann.
See if this might suit for big dog energy in a small body :)




Poodles are very people oriented but as mentioned, early training to accept absence is key.

It seems that maltipoos might have the same people orientation.

"Maltipoos are highly affectionate and would make a great choice for a novice pet parent. However, they’re highly sensitive and do not like being left alone for long periods of the day. As companion dogs, they crave the company of their humans and may develop separation anxiety when they don’t get the attention they need. But if you can provide a loving home that meets this mix’s needs, you’ll have an adoring family member who can dish out plenty of cuddle sessions.

Dog Breed Group:
Hybrid Dogs
Height:
8 to 14 inches tall at the shoulder
Weight:
5 to 20 pounds
Life Span:
10 to 13 years
Maltipoos are a popular cross of the Maltese and Toy or Miniature Poodle.

Before buying a Maltipoo, it's important to research the health concerns that affect both the Maltese and the Poodle. Both parents should have health clearances from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals for patellas (knees) and thyroid and from the Canine Eye Registry Foundation (CERF) certifying that the eyes are normal, including a DNA test for progressive retinal atrophy (PRA). (The Kennel Club will have it's own health testing standards, but are likely similar.)

Because some health problems don't appear until a dog reaches full maturity, health clearances aren't issued to dogs younger than 2 years old. Look for a breeder who doesn't breed her dogs until they're two or three years old."




Resources you may already have, but jic.

United Kingdom

The Kennel Club


The Kennel Club | Welcome to The Kennel Club website
We are the UK’s largest organisation devoted to dog health, welfare and training. We work to ensure dogs live healthy, happy lives with responsible owners.
www.thekennelclub.org.uk

Kennel Club UK Health Testing Guidelines
Potential dog owners should be aware that, at present, the application of various health screening results to breeding programmes is not always straightforward, and breeders may make choices for various reasons. A responsible breeder though, will always be willing to discuss relevant health issues with you. Breed clubs are often useful sources of breed-specific information.

Priority health schemes and tests

The Kennel Club Assured Breeders must use the following (or equivalent) schemes, tests and advice. All other breeders are strongly advised to also use these.
Important health schemes and tests

We strongly recommend that all breeders, both assured breeders (ABs) and non ABs, use the following (or equivalent) schemes, tests and advice.

Other health schemes and tests available


Breeder Listings

All UK

Champdogs

Champdogs Guide to Buying a Puppy


Pedigree Toy Poodle Puppies for Sale - Champdogs ®
Find the best Kennel Club Registered Pedigree Toy Poodle Puppies at Champdogs - The pedigree dog breeders website.
www.champdogs.co.uk


Kennel Club UK Find a Puppy

Kennel Club Assured Breeders


Look for "The Poodle Club of (your country, region, city). They may have breeder referral folk to help your search.

I found these searching for The Poodle Club UK



 

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Hello there,
first of all, thank you to everyone for posting here, such an amazing community.
So, I (28, Female, no kids) am looking to get a toy poodle... or a maltipoo. I know this will cause a visceral reaction in many if not most - people seem to get angry even at the mention of the poodle crosses and I get it. I will list what I am looking for and prepared to give to my furry friend, and let me know if you have any thoughts or advice at all :)
What matters:
  • Size --> I travel occassionally, sometimes go away for the summer, and I'd take my dog with me, of course. I am not ok with the cargo hold so the dog needs to go on the plane with me. In some airlines the max height of the bag is around 24 cm, so the maltipoo would def fit. The toy poodle --> I guess most of them, too.
  • Separation anxiety --> I do NOT plan to leave my dog alone for hours and hours on end, but I do live a fairly dynamic life and I would want to take the dog with me to most places (this, again, is easier with a smaller dog). However, SOMETIMES, there may be occasions I need to leave it alone for a while (3 hours?). I do have a boyfriend with a remote work and a friend in my building who's willing to help but if they are both out, I need to know this is possible. I have friends with maltipoos and they leave them for 3-4 hours or so, but all the toy poodle breeders I speak to say toy poodles have insane sep anxiety and can not be left alone.
  • Health - of course. I'd go for a KC registered toy poodle, but for maltipoos understandably it is difficult to know what you're getting

I am prepared to give a lot of time, patience, and love to my dog. I decided now is the time - I lost my last dog in 2018, a min pin, and I couldn't bear myself to have another dog but it's been almost 3 years and I'm ready.

Occasionally I'd also love to take my pup to my work, which, again, I know a lot of people do with toy maltipoos, not sure re toy poodles. I do not want a "bag" dog but the dog being transportable is important, equally I would love walks in the park and hikes with my dog.
My min pin was a big dog in a small dog's body so he is not IMO a true TOY breed. That thing had the energy of a big dobermann.

Lastly, I have also been having issues with breeders. Of course, there are no "proper" maltipoo breeders but I seemed to have found a good one who cares a lot for her pups. She did demand a non refundable deposit which I stupidly paid but the next day.... the pup died. She said it was puppy fading syndrome. She doesn't seem sketchy as a lot of high profile people buy from this breeder but not even sure that counts for much. Would this be a red flag for you?

Thank you so much for any thoughts.
I was going through the same dilemma toy poodle versus Maltipoo, I did a bunch of research and realized if I wanted to know exactly what I would be getting a pure breed would be better, so I went with a toy poodle, also if you are traveling and want to ensure it would fit in cargo, which is something I requested as well, I would go with a toy poodle. Just be careful the smaller the toy poodle the more fragile and easily they can break their bones and legs, so just be careful about the weight and height in reference.
 

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I suspect a Maltipoo's coat would mat very, very easily. I really do not like to see people doing crosses like that.
 

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Of course I am biased toward the poodle. But you have a lot of options with your requirements. Toy poodle, Maltese, yorkshire terrier. Also some rarer breeds like Bolognese. I met one once when living in the UK. I went to the KC annual event I think it was called 'meet the breed' or something. A huge event with lots of breeds so you can meet them and talk to the breeders to help you pick which breed fits you. It helped me narrow down to poodle. Its a shame that it no longer happens due to Covid. I think going to that might help you.

Regarding SA. That is primarily a training issue. Now all of the small companion breeds are going to be more prone to this because they are bred to be around people. But with proactive effort from day one you should be able to leave for 3 or 4 hours. I have never been told that a poodle cant do that. If a breeder has such SA in their line then I would avoid them regardless, that seems odd to me.

On a general point. When getting a mix, only do so if you love all of the aspects of all breeds in that mix. If you think that a breed does not fit your circumstances then dont get a dog that is 50% that breed. If toy poodles really are so much more likely to have SA then a poodle mix is also going to have that risk.

A mix is a random combination of both breeds. It doesnt magically get just the good parts from both sides. I speak from experience here. Not a poodle mix but a labrador x border collie from my childhood. We wanted a lab but couldnt afford a purebred. Got a lab mix hoping it would be more lab than collie, we were very mistaken and the dog ended up rehomed. I have never had the guts to investigate what happened to him after he left us but I highly suspect that he was euthanised young.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I think it's impossible to tell how a mixed breed will end up, either physically or temperament wise. So if you want to know what dog you’re getting, get a purebred. Poodle or other. My opinion on « doodles » is that they are scams : mutts with a fancy name to make more money. Not so long ago these dogs were given for free or sold for 50$.

Poodles in general are not dogs who do well when left alone for too long because they are very close to their humans, but any well adjusted dog will tolerate being alone sometimes, as long as you get them used to it early and correct problems if need be. This is not just a poodle thing; any dog has to be taught.
I agree with you. All dogs especially the smaller ones need to be taught to be alone, I was just thinking if poodles are especially prone to having separation anxiety, but sounds like the overwhelming consensus is, no.
Regarding doodles, true, it's a big trend. But on the flipside, if they are THAT popular, isn't there something to it? i.e. Isn't there a reason for the popularity? The way the doodle breeders position these dogs are hypo allergenic dogs, poodle's intelligence + cuddliness of the maltese/cavapoo (best of both worlds), less likely to have health isses given the gene crossing, etc etc. Is that all a load of BS?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Welcome, @ScoobyDoo1992! And I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your newborn puppy:

Here is a detailed analysis of fading puppy syndrome:


As you can see, it’s not all that uncommon and can be the result of myriad factors.

But I still think you’re best to go with a small preservationist breeder, who is going to ensure you’re getting the best traits of your desired breed. For more information on what to look for in a toy poodle breeder (including appropriate health testing), this site was recently recommended in other thread for buyers in the UK: Champdogs Guide to Buying a Puppy
Thank you so much for your reply! This was an interesting read. Sounds like it is definitely something that can happen, so maybe not totally the breeder's fault. But I agree, pure bred is probably the way to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
T
Hi and Welcome!



See if this might suit for big dog energy in a small body :)




Poodles are very people oriented but as mentioned, early training to accept absence is key.

It seems that maltipoos might have the same people orientation.

"Maltipoos are highly affectionate and would make a great choice for a novice pet parent. However, they’re highly sensitive and do not like being left alone for long periods of the day. As companion dogs, they crave the company of their humans and may develop separation anxiety when they don’t get the attention they need. But if you can provide a loving home that meets this mix’s needs, you’ll have an adoring family member who can dish out plenty of cuddle sessions.

Dog Breed Group:
Hybrid Dogs
Height:
8 to 14 inches tall at the shoulder
Weight:
5 to 20 pounds
Life Span:
10 to 13 years
Maltipoos are a popular cross of the Maltese and Toy or Miniature Poodle.

Before buying a Maltipoo, it's important to research the health concerns that affect both the Maltese and the Poodle. Both parents should have health clearances from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals for patellas (knees) and thyroid and from the Canine Eye Registry Foundation (CERF) certifying that the eyes are normal, including a DNA test for progressive retinal atrophy (PRA). (The Kennel Club will have it's own health testing standards, but are likely similar.)

Because some health problems don't appear until a dog reaches full maturity, health clearances aren't issued to dogs younger than 2 years old. Look for a breeder who doesn't breed her dogs until they're two or three years old."




Resources you may already have, but jic.

United Kingdom

The Kennel Club


The Kennel Club | Welcome to The Kennel Club website
We are the UK’s largest organisation devoted to dog health, welfare and training. We work to ensure dogs live healthy, happy lives with responsible owners.
www.thekennelclub.org.uk

Kennel Club UK Health Testing Guidelines
Potential dog owners should be aware that, at present, the application of various health screening results to breeding programmes is not always straightforward, and breeders may make choices for various reasons. A responsible breeder though, will always be willing to discuss relevant health issues with you. Breed clubs are often useful sources of breed-specific information.

Priority health schemes and tests

The Kennel Club Assured Breeders must use the following (or equivalent) schemes, tests and advice. All other breeders are strongly advised to also use these.
Important health schemes and tests

We strongly recommend that all breeders, both assured breeders (ABs) and non ABs, use the following (or equivalent) schemes, tests and advice.

Other health schemes and tests available


Breeder Listings

All UK

Champdogs

Champdogs Guide to Buying a Puppy


Pedigree Toy Poodle Puppies for Sale - Champdogs ®
Find the best Kennel Club Registered Pedigree Toy Poodle Puppies at Champdogs - The pedigree dog breeders website.
www.champdogs.co.uk


Kennel Club UK Find a Puppy

Kennel Club Assured Breeders


Look for "The Poodle Club of (your country, region, city). They may have breeder referral folk to help your search.

I found these searching for The Poodle Club UK



Thank you, what a comprehensive guide! I've already been browsing the Kennel Club but the rest is also much appreciated. In your view, if both parents are extensively health testes and KC registered (i.e. the maltese, and the toy poodle), wouldn't that "guarantee" that the maltipoo pups are therefore healthy and be effectively the same health wise as getting a pure bred? Or at least reduce the likelihood of genetic diseases? Say if all the generations of the maltese, and all generations of the toy poodle are healthy, why would there be unhealthy pups?
Oh and the video made my weekend :) Thank you!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
T
I was going through the same dilemma toy poodle versus Maltipoo, I did a bunch of research and realized if I wanted to know exactly what I would be getting a pure breed would be better, so I went with a toy poodle, also if you are traveling and want to ensure it would fit in cargo, which is something I requested as well, I would go with a toy poodle. Just be careful the smaller the toy poodle the more fragile and easily they can break their bones and legs, so just be careful about the weight and height in reference.
Thank you, that's really helpful. Did you end up going for the toy poodle?
Something that I am seeing in some online forums/reviews is that the maltipoo tends to be more "cuddly" because of the maltese genes (a truer lap dog), but then people tell me toy poodles love to cuddle too...for the most part.
Re being smaller, is your recommendation to not go for an extremely small one then? I know people breed teacup poodles, they seem so tiny
 
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