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Discussion Starter #1
My pup Ilusion that I just got on the weekend has a canine lower tooth that has penetrated into her palate. My vet told me that the permanent tooth will grow into her palate too as it will come in beside the baby tooth on the inside of her mouth. My vet said it will make her have an overbite since the lower jaw can't grow properly since that tooth is stuck in her palate.
My breeder does not believe in removing it and said it will work itself out.
My vet will charge me $500.00 to take it out. I do not want to pay this since I have just paid alot of money for my top quailty standard poodle.
My breeder has offered for me to take to her vet for an opinion and if it needs to come out then she will pay for it. But she is not close to me. Has anyone ever had a tooth like this before? What did you do?
 

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This is called Base Canine Narrow and it is common in some lines of Poodles (I think we should work to breed away from this, but that is another story).

My opinion. These baby teeth are not that much of an issue even though they look nasty going up into the gums. I have found that the puppies eat and manage just fine. I'm not sure why your vet thinks that the baby canine will not fall out and make room for the adult tooth.

All that said, it is IMPERATIVE that you work on the adult canines as they come in to get them to spread and move to the outside of the gums. If the adult canines go up into the gums, you will have a whole world of trouble and you may need orthodontic work. However, the good news is that once in correct place, the adult cannines will in fact hold things together and pull the jaw into the right place.

I have had excellent luck manually moving emerging adult canines that look like they are going to be narrow. With my thumbs, I gently press outward on the inside of the canines multiple times a day and encourage them to flare. Once they pop over the edge of the gum, they will stay in place.
 

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Poodlelover, I KNOW exactly how you feel. I had it happen to me. After paying $1000 and driving a few hours and getting home and inspecting every square inch of the puppy, I discovered the crooked tooth. My breeder brushed it off, I kept calling, sending photos, went to dental specialists and everything. It did NOT straighten out with adult teeth. However it causes no problems whatsoever. There is not a hole (or a pocket that collects food and bacteria) Her teeth and pure white and she is 9 years. But to me it was a huge flaw. I have always been bugged by it. She had a recent litter and one male puppy had it too. I showed it to the people who came to buy him. I also showed him what his mothers mouth is like. I didn't hide it. The puppy was $300, for a pet which is a heck of a lot different that representing your dogs as super high quality, blah blah blah.
 

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poodlelover, My breeder recommended the same thing as Carol. Use your thumbs and give just a small amount of pressure(your thumbs should not turn white at the pressure point) do this about 3 times daily for a bit more than a minute.

In this situation the adult tooth can come in a bit behind the baby tooth, but the baby tooth should still fall out quickly and make room for the other. Is there something else going on that makes your Vet think it wouldn't?
 

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Well see this is where the breeder should have told you this ahead of time so that you could have decided if you wanted to deal with it or not when choosing from a litter. I think that if you handle your pups enough and have had them to the vet, they knew it was there and like that. Sorry you are stuck having to deal with it. I can say that I knew that Harry had this issue and in fact his teeth did correct themselves when the adult teeth came in but I know it doesn't always happen that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks everyone, I am pushing the tooth a few times a day. I hope it works.
My vet thinks that the permanent tooth will grow on the inside of the baby tooth and grow into the Palate too.
My breeder told me about the tooth after I paid and signed the papers and was on the way out the door. I did not know there was a hole in the palate.
I just wanted to get home with her.
I am waiting to here back from her breeder and I can only go in a few weeks, I work every day so I have to go on a Saturday and I am working the next two Saturdays.
I hope it corrects itself.
I will let you know what happens.
 

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Thanks everyone, I am pushing the tooth a few times a day. I hope it works.
Pushing on the baby tooth will not do much because the tooth has created a hole in the roof of the mouth and that hole tends to slip the canine back and hold it in place.

Is the adult tooth coming in? This is what needs to be pushed on. Also, you can wiggle the baby canine to encourage it to fall out.

Who is the breeder on this litter?
 

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Isn't this the pup from Tango?

I feel like this should have been disclosed before you signed anything as well.

I do not have a link, but on the canine repro and puppy care yahoo group that I am on, some people (with standards) were saying something about the vet "nipping" the baby tooth with nail clippers, and then using the method that Cbrand was talking about, once the adult tooth was coming in.

I would not pull the tooth, just have the vet take the tip off of it. so that the adult tooth still has a space to come in.
 

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Man that ticks me off for you! She told you AFTER you paid her and signed the papers?! I mean how would she have felt if you had signed papers, paid her, as you were walking out the door said "oh by the way I guess I should tell you that this dog is going to be an outside dog 24/7." Then just left. I mean isn't that something she would have wanted to know ahead of time in order to decide if you were the right home for that dog? It's just dishonest and shady and I'm glad I know that this breeder acted this way, ugh.
 

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Oh my :smow:...

I tried to warn everybody about teeth so many times : (( and I am sorry that you still got duped :doh:

Yes- it happens that some pups have overbite - but it is a major fault and possibly a long term health problem and puppy buyer needs to be informed !!!!!!

I am so sorry and I hope it will work itself out somehow : (( My friend had to pay 2000$ for braces for her Bearded Collie and I swore right than and there that I would NEVER take a puppy with the wrong bite - period !!!!

ESPECIALLY NOT for that amount of money !!!!
 

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Unfortunately some show lines do have this problem. It's too bad it wasn't brought to your attention ahead of time. You could have looked for another breeder if desired.

Jasper's baby teeth did NOT grow into his palate, but his line can have a problem with the adult canines. His are coming in and it's really not a big deal at all. As suggested by the breeder, I push on his canines a little several times a day and they're moving very easily and nicely! His adult canines did start to come in behind (as did several of his teeth) but the baby teeth fell out quickly thereafter. Like human kids, the teeth move very nicely into place.

For the most part your situation doesn't sound that much different. If it were me, I'd probably not worry too much at this point. If the baby tooth lingers too long then, of course, I'd see the Vet for intervention.

While not ideal, it doesn't seem like that much of a problem and doesn't take a lot of time to fix. Maybe there's something I'm not understanding about your dog's particular case though.

Good luck! She is a little doll and I hope you're having a lot of fun with her!
 

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Wow , I am kind of surprised and kind of not about How she told you after you sign and paid. :eek:hwell:
 

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It sounds like the breeder is in desperate times and didn't want to risk losing the sale. Unfortunately for her, we all now know that she won't hesitate to put her interests first. Not a breeder I will buy from.

It's fortunate her puppy got such a loving home. It sounds like you caught it soon enough to take the appropriate steps to correct it. I can't wait to see more pictures!
 

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poodlelover, I am sorry to hear that the breeder did this to you! I have read about 'base narrow' but have not had any experience with it. This info should have been disclosed to you BEFORE you signed anything or paid! She should have explained the issue to you and what you would need to do to help the girl out as her adult teeth came in! If she loves her dogs and the pups she produces, this would have been important for her that you know all about it so you could help the dog so she would be mature with a proper mouth. By not telling you, she did not show concern about the future of this little girl! That makes me upset.

If you would, could you pm me who the breeder is? I would like to know as I would like to avoid this person in any future poodle endeavors. I completely understand that pups are going to come out "not perfect" no matter how good the breeding behind them. I understand that some lines carry one thing, others another. BUT, not to make sure you know what you need to know in order for the pup you get to have proper care and to make sure you are willing to deal with this, is not excusable to me.

I trust Cbrand's info as she has had experience with this and expect that your girl will be fine in the end, but I send you my best wishes for both you and her!
 

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I agree with Jester's Mom 100 % !!!!!!!!

It is not about "if bite will get better or not" - it is about NOT disclosing it !!!!:fish:

AND - it is NOT true that many lines have that problem - SOME do !

Some "bad bites" get into the place with every-day pushing - some do not !!!

If you are paying that amount of money - you need to get all available info BEFORE you pay for a puppy !!!

My friend was told about overbite but thought "it is nothing" and "nothing" turned into 2000 $ dog braces and pain for a puppy : (((
 

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I see three problems with this whole thing:

1. Breeder did not disclose problem. I think that is unprofessional and unfair to both puppy who may need intervention and owner who may not be experienced in this issue.

2. Breeder did not offer advice on how to manually work on this issue without seeking expensive medical intervention. BTW... I have heard that chewing on a large tennis ball helps spread the teeth too.

3. Vet suggests expensive medical procedure. I reallly hate it when vets get owners all worked up and try to milk them for extra dollars. Seriously, Base Canine Narrow is a pretty common issue in Standard Poodles. I personally would not pull teeth because it can cause the adult teeth to come in wrong.
 

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Pet Orthodontics

A good link to read about it all...

I really still do not think it is so common - at least should not be : (((

Whenever I looked into a puppy - I asked for a "bite photo" and it was always correct - even with BYBs ..so...

Anyways - It can be a problem ( my friend's puppy had a HOLE in upper palate where the canine hit it and food was collecting and sometimes that hole can go as deep as into the nasal passage : ((( - imagine THAT pain and infections...)

It can correct itself with no manipulation also.

So yes - definitely ask for a second opinion. Maybe look for a Vet who really does canine orthodontics.
 

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Isn't this the pup from Tango?

Actually, I said some, not many. And SOME do have this issue, I ran into it multiple times during my puppy search. Though none with pups who actually had baby teeth that had penetrated the palate. And I 100% agree that the breeder should have disclosed and offered advice how to manually work the teeth. Although I suppose this could have been a one off situation for her??

And I should clarify, Jas' teeth may have corrected themselves once in since there was no problem with his baby teeth. It looked as if they may be narrow, and we were warned they may be by our breeder, so we have been manually working it. All are coming in nicely. And I can't tell you how happy I am to have those sharp baby canines gone :D.

Anyhow, I hope all works out with the pup. She's a pretty little thing.
 

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Hmmmm Rock - that is new to me :rolffleyes: LOL

Maybe I always get a photo and get offered a puppy with a correct bite since I ask about a bite :rolffleyes:

But - Jester's mom had none either so far :rolffleyes:

IMO - if dog has a bad bite and needs a "manipulation" to put it in place either with every-day "exercise" of "braces" it should not be eagerly used as a breeding dog since bad bite is genetic thing.

Any article I read about it suggests strongly that dogs with "off" bite should never be bred.

But again LOL - obviously it is done and obviously than "some" lines have it more prevalent *sigh...

If this is what Tango produces in general - I am not interested ;)
 

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What gets me is that the breeder just shrugged it off like it's not important and now this owner has to do something she didn't realize she was going to have to do ahead of time. She might have chosen a different puppy or gone to another breeder. I just think it lacks good character with regards to this breeder and I certainly will never refer anyone to the line.
 
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