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Discussion Starter #1
So attached is a photo of the most ADORABLE red male tiny toy poodle... from the same breeder whom I purchased Snoops. I'm seriously thinking about getting this little guy. I would love to have a red, and I'm sure Snoops would love a poodle buddy. They share a Dad, but different Mom.. they would be half brothers!

Here's the thing - I paid ALOT for Snoops. I was told his price was according to size. That he would be tiny (between 4-6lbs). Snoops now stands 10" (almost 11") tall and weighs over 8lbs (he is not overweight). He is quite big - much bigger than I had anticipated. I love him nonetheless. The breeder told me that sometimes the Standard Poodle gene is dominant and that may be why Snoops ended up so big. Ok.. makes sense.. I think!
I feel I paid too much, given his current measurements. I should also add - I guess his price was also reflective of his Dad being a CKC Champion.

So, the breeder has now priced all her pups waaaaaaaay down - between $600 - $1200. I inquired about reds, and she posted pics of the newborns. They are priced at $1500. They cost WAY more than the other pups she has.
She also cannot guarantee the size as it is the Mom's first litter. Mom is 11" and 7lbs. Dad is 8", 3lbs.

Should I ask for a discount? Or is this "against" the rules. I'm not trying to say I feel ripped off when I got Snoops.. but.. I kinda feel like I got ripped off! He is much bigger than I was told he would be and I almost feel like I should get a bit of a break on a 2nd purchase...

What do ya'll think? Am I completely out of line here? :wacko:
 

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Hm.. let's see.

Ask her why there's a different price for the puppies, and tell her that Snoops isn't the size you were told he was going to be.

Though what's the most you can lose from trying to haggle for the puppy? Her saying no? When I want something, or when I want to try to get something, I ASK the question, and most of the time I get the answer I want, since most people dont' ask the questions I ask.

I say that if you're serious enough about getting that puppy, then give it a shot.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I agree Fluffy...

When I was in the process of purchasing Snoops, I asked if there was any chance of a discount if I paid cash. She flat out said "no". Ok then.. no harm in asking.

Now that I am a 2nd time customer, and Snoops is bigger than expected, I almost feel entitled to a bit of a break... call me cheeky.. just my thoughts on it.
 

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I would definatly ask the worst she can say is NO.
Take snoops back and show her how big he is.
Good luck.
Just wanted to say that I think price for colour is retarded. Same dogs had the same sex haveing the same said pups. If that said dog had all black puppies why would they be cheaper from same said dog that had a red puppy.
I also think red is the colour of the month right now and breeders are ripping off people right now wanting red but that just my opinion.
 

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I don't understand why you would go back to his breeder when you didn't get what you expected the first time. If you feel she ripped you off the first time, and is ripping you off again this time, why go back?? If BOTH parents are not championed I have no idea why anyone would pay $1500 for a pup, when I could get a pup with championed parents for the same amount of money.

My advice would be to find a better breeder.
 

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She priced Snoops on a size he was going to be which didn't happen. We both know that his size is not her fault, but the price is! She can control how much those pups cost. I think you shouldn't ask for a discount and leave it up to her to decide what that discount is going to be.

Rather, think of a price you feel is fair and offer her a price slightly lower. In negotiating, this will prepare the seller for a lower offer. When you compromise for a slightly higher price, you both get what you want. Trust me. I used to sell homes for a living. Also, when you do negotiate, explain that her prices before were misrepresented and you believe you are being fair as a repeat customer to offer $x price.

PS....I've been thinking about getting Zulee a sister. Just don't know yet if that is the best thing for us. Maybe rather than color, it would be neat to see who Snoops picks? Just a thought. The puppy you showed looks adorable. Just keep in mind that a few months from now, he will likely be a completely different color. No offense. It's just that poodles change color, and we need to buy knowing that is likely to happen. I expect Zulee to change too.
 

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PS.... I really like my breeder. Kay Amen http:toy-poodles.com. She is close to Lufkin and prices her puppies right. She is worth checking into. If you do, let her know Lori Masterman referred you.
 

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Well, red flag is that she's pricing puppies on SIZE!! I mean duh. Who prices a puppy on size? I agree that if she shows toys and then gets oversized she will discount but not charging more because they are teeny. I wouldn't even bother with this breeder.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Mandy - I do agree that red is a hot color right now! I have been speaking with the breeder about a red for several months now. It's only been of recent that a red has been born to my liking, and also with the same Dad as Snoops :) I also agree that price based on color is a bit nuts.. at the time that I got Snoops, many breeders were telling me that apricots were priced higher.

Locket - I feel that I was ripped off because I was told one thing, and charged for that trait and in the end got another... misrepresentation, yes, if you will.
However, I do really love Snoops and all of his other amazing qualities. He has a fantastic demeanor, adorable personality, obedient, etc, etc... this is why I would go back to the same breeder. I also like the idea of having another pup who is related to Snoops.

BFF - I agree with everything you said!
I will also check out your breeder.. doesn't hurt right?! And Zulee is awesome!

I should also add that the breeder had (still has) a disclaimer that she cannot ever guarantee size. Of course, I never asked for a refund and I'm sure I wouldn't even have got one after the fact. But seeing that I am coming back, and she is aware that Snoops is so much bigger than she had projected is reason why I feel I should get a lower price on puppy #2.
 

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I don't understand why you would go back to his breeder when you didn't get what you expected the first time. If you feel she ripped you off the first time, and is ripping you off again this time, why go back?? If BOTH parents are not championed I have no idea why anyone would pay $1500 for a pup, when I could get a pup with championed parents for the same amount of money.

My advice would be to find a better breeder.
:dito:
 

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I don't understand why you would go back to his breeder when you didn't get what you expected the first time. If you feel she ripped you off the first time, and is ripping you off again this time, why go back?? If BOTH parents are not championed I have no idea why anyone would pay $1500 for a pup, when I could get a pup with championed parents for the same amount of money.

My advice would be to find a better breeder.
Agreed.
 

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So attached is a photo of the most ADORABLE red male tiny toy poodle... from the same breeder whom I purchased Snoops. I'm seriously thinking about getting this little guy. I would love to have a red, and I'm sure Snoops would love a poodle buddy. They share a Dad, but different Mom.. they would be half brothers!

Here's the thing - I paid ALOT for Snoops. I was told his price was according to size. That he would be tiny (between 4-6lbs). Snoops now stands 10" (almost 11") tall and weighs over 8lbs (he is not overweight). He is quite big - much bigger than I had anticipated. I love him nonetheless. The breeder told me that sometimes the Standard Poodle gene is dominant and that may be why Snoops ended up so big. Ok.. makes sense.. I think!
I feel I paid too much, given his current measurements. I should also add - I guess his price was also reflective of his Dad being a CKC Champion.

So, the breeder has now priced all her pups waaaaaaaay down - between $600 - $1200. I inquired about reds, and she posted pics of the newborns. They are priced at $1500. They cost WAY more than the other pups she has.
She also cannot guarantee the size as it is the Mom's first litter. Mom is 11" and 7lbs. Dad is 8", 3lbs.

Should I ask for a discount? Or is this "against" the rules. I'm not trying to say I feel ripped off when I got Snoops.. but.. I kinda feel like I got ripped off! He is much bigger than I was told he would be and I almost feel like I should get a bit of a break on a 2nd purchase...

What do ya'll think? Am I completely out of line here? :wacko:
the breeder told you that some times the standard poodle gene is dominant?
is she breeding toys to standards?

frankly if a breeder is pricing on color- run away, I can see a breeder selling puppies that will stay within standard for their variety being more expensive than ones that will be over sized, but the pups that will be oversized should be on limited reg. and on spay/neuter contracts... the price should reflect that
but if shes using terms like tiny toy or teacup, again run away
 

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JMO, but I think you should go w/ a different breeder. I've kept my opinions to myself after reading about your breeder in other posts, but she doesn't sound to great to me. Pricing based on size and color and her excuses for why she does that are bogus. Any well bred Poodle, which I'm not sure you would be getting from her, should have a good personality and being related doesn't mean this new pup will be anything like Snoops. You also run the risk of setting the new pup up for failure by comparing the two.

My neighbors lost their Lab a few years ago. I don't care for Labs but Hunter was a truly special dog. After he died (at a young age) my neighbors found out his littermate had sired a litter of pups. They ended up getting two pups from this litter (big mistake right there). Neither pup is anything like Hunter in personality. From what I've heard about Bullet, the puppies' sire, he's not much like Hunter either. The lady is disabled and the dogs are quite dangerous for her to be around; they've already knocked her down more than once. Hunter was very careful around her and the rest of their dogs (all toy breeds).
 

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Discussion Starter #18
the breeder told you that some times the standard poodle gene is dominant?
is she breeding toys to standards?

frankly if a breeder is pricing on color- run away, I can see a breeder selling puppies that will stay within standard for their variety being more expensive than ones that will be over sized, but the pups that will be oversized should be on limited reg. and on spay/neuter contracts... the price should reflect that
but if shes using terms like tiny toy or teacup, again run away
She does not use the term "teacup" but does refer to them as "tiny toy". I know that several on here are opposed to those terms, but I'm ok with it... I understand being aware of that tho.

My understanding is that she priced according to lineage, color, size, etc.. but not on just one of those traits alone (ie. not just according to color).

I have never been really clear about what limited reg. is - if anyone wants to explain that, it would be great! That way I can clarify what it means :)

Snoops was purchased, and there was a spay/neuter clause (by 6 months).

She is breeding (tiny) toys, but explained that (tiny) toys at one point in time, were bred down from standards. Therefore, the standard gene may show up as a more dominant gene/trait from time to time, thus producing a larger size toy.
 

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Sounds like the *breeder* is pulling your leg with all the excuses. There is no such thing a teacup, or tiny toy poodles. It's just a gimmick that shady breeders will pull to get more money in their wallets.

Didn't you have alot of problems when you first got Snoops with his health? Do you really want to have another pup that goes through that?

I would also suggest waiting until he is older and you've got him a little under control.. JMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
JMO, but I think you should go w/ a different breeder. I've kept my opinions to myself after reading about your breeder in other posts, but she doesn't sound to great to me. Pricing based on size and color and her excuses for why she does that are bogus. Any well bred Poodle, which I'm not sure you would be getting from her, should have a good personality and being related doesn't mean this new pup will be anything like Snoops. You also run the risk of setting the new pup up for failure by comparing the two.

My neighbors lost their Lab a few years ago. I don't care for Labs but Hunter was a truly special dog. After he died (at a young age) my neighbors found out his littermate had sired a litter of pups. They ended up getting two pups from this litter (big mistake right there). Neither pup is anything like Hunter in personality. From what I've heard about Bullet, the puppies' sire, he's not much like Hunter either. The lady is disabled and the dogs are quite dangerous for her to be around; they've already knocked her down more than once. Hunter was very careful around her and the rest of their dogs (all toy breeds).
Thanks Harley - I appreciate your opinion.. you've always had some pretty good things to say on this board.

I'm not "married" to this breeder, but I did get Snoops from her and for that I am thankful. I'm definitely open to looking at other breeders.

I think given what info I have provided, opinions can be formed about the breeder. I'm not wanting everyone to hate on her... I got an amazing puppy from her! I am a bit bummed out about being "overcharged" the first time, and I am trying to determine what I can do to avoid this the 2nd time.

I am still very new to this whole poodle thing.. all I know is that I love Snoops more than anything, and I love what I have learned about him and his breed so far. I know that many people on here have strict criteria when searching for a poodle and may consider Snoops to be in a "lesser class" than their dog. I'm ok with that. When I got Snoops, I thought I was getting the Gucci of poodles. Now it may be that I totally got a knock off.. and again, I'm ok with that. I know that I love the product that I ended up with. He looks like a Gucci, he is stitched like a Gucci.. he just might not have the label that says "Gucci". If I can rely on getting that same quality again by going to the same breeder that would be a real score! I just don't want to get ripped off... I don't wanna pay Gucci prices for Canal Street products.

Your story about Hunter was touching, and it's unfortunate what happened in the end. A great story and definitely something to be aware of!
 
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