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Discussion Starter #1
I didn't want to hijack someone else's thread. For Want of a Poodle asked & I'm tickled to try to explain what's been my lifetime of work. So thank you for letting me share & to geek out a bit while doing so :) I'm sorry this took so long but between severe storms, my BFF calling last night, I thought I posted &... (eeek) didn't.

For Want of a Poodle wrote:
"Dogsavvy - one day, I would love a post about what to look for in a guardian/working type puppy and breeder, and what an owner needs to provide them with. I love the Guardian and working types, have thought of a Bouvier or a Giant Schnauzer, not in a situation right now where they are appropriate but... one day. However, I have been noticing a lot of guardian types with weird temperments lately. Skittish cane corsos, nervous mastiffs, scatterbrained german shepherds, etc. And then the physical issues (the last bouvier i saw had such bad hip dysplasia it could not run). I am sure sure one of it is socialization and training, but they just somehow less... capable and confident then others I have seen over the years. I find nervous working breed dogs scary, I much prefer the "Queen of all I survey" type confident dogs."


What to look for in a breeder:

Honestly this is a bit tough any more. In an ideal situation, you find someone who prides their breeding work in the job that you want the dog for. If you want a dog to be a guardian but you have kids. You find a breeder who has kids, grandkids, neighbor kids who are around his dogs. You check his attitude about dogs & kids. You watch how his dogs interact around his children. Or maybe you're someone that lives in a sketchy neighborhood or works in a sketchy neighborhood, this dog is going to be a dog that has a higher chance of seeing some action so you look for a breeder who not only understands this is not an imagined threat, this is real & you want a dog who is mentally stable, self confident, but willing to take it to the mat if he needs to. You will ideally want parents & grandparents of this perspective pup to be the kind of dog you would like to own. Find out how much & what kind of training they put in. There are the very rare dogs that require very little training & they are ready to rock. Those are dogs who are very carefully placed with someone who understands just what a responsibility they are (that's told as a precaution.) Those top deck dogs tend to be the ones I take on & I love them but they are not for most folks (more later on that if you're interested).


Breeds are always interesting in these discussions. **** I lost everything I wrote due to the storm so stay tuned... I will come back & add more tomorrow. Sorry to have you wait.
 

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This question has plagued my research for a while--what is the difference between all the German Shepherd Dog lines? Is it true that the West German Show lines can also serve as working dogs, albeit ones with an easier "off" button? I see Czech working lines being name dropped a lot--are those more for police/military work? Can and should the German show and working lines be registered as AKC/UKC when being bred in the U.S., or is that against the club in Germany?

Well, I guess that was more like questions than question... 馃ぃ
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Floofy Poodle
This question has plagued my research for a while--what is the difference between all the German Shepherd Dog lines? Is it true that the West German Show lines can also serve as working dogs, albeit ones with an easier "off" button? I see Czech working lines being name dropped a lot--are those more for police/military work? Can and should the German show and working lines be registered as AKC/UKC when being bred in the U.S., or is that against the club in Germany?

Well, I guess that was more like questions than question...
I have never found anything that I was eager to work with in the West German Show lines. I have no doubt that at one time this was not the case but it's been a rare few dogs from those lines (& I certainly haven't tested them all) that I found to have the right temperament but generally when they do there is something off in the confirmation that makes them ineligible for long term work. Yes, for 20+ years those in working circles have been name dropping from the Czech lines. You'll find a lot of sables in those bloodlines. There is a fine line between a dog flipping the switch & turning on the heat vs a dog who is spun out & can't throttle back & chill. For some time I was the person who evaluated dogs before they were acquired for employment. Sometimes when they talk about the lines being hot...hot...hot... the truth is the dogs are spun out & nuts...nuts...nuts. So unless you want to live in a pecan pie, you have to find a dog that's bred to be on the balance point.

The balance point is where the dog is on the sword blade's edge. Not attacking everything that comes along however ready to meet aggression with aggression should an attack occur. And to be on the balance point, never more one than the other (not ready for war all the time & not ready for the couch all the time thus being balanced) But for want of a more extreme hitting dog, or dogs who are just on fire all the time they ended up with something no sane person wants to live with. I have put many of these poor dogs to work in foreign lands where dogs are used as estate guardians where it's not illegal for a dog to severely damage poachers/trespassers.

For me personally, it's been a very long time since I've been able to recommend a breeder or a litter or a line of German Shepherds. I stopped actively seeking on years ago for myself. I am NOT ever saying they're not out there. I did evaluations of dogs potentially being acquired for various types of jobs for clients. Dobermans & German Shepherds became harder & harder to find that were the complete package: temperament, mental stability, proper level/right type of aggression, health, etc..

As for if they should be registered AKC/UKC that's not my department but it was easy enough to get dogs registered through both clubs if you wanted to, so long as you had the proper paperwork.
 

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@dogsavvy yeah, good Dobermans and German Shepherds are very hard to come by. The good breeders are the ones who breed for the dog to have an off switch too. Have you heard of Carmspack German Shepherds? She has been breeding for 40 years and knows what she is talking about, and does health testing. My next dog will be a German Shepherd from her.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I should have started with how to pick a breed. But I started with breeder. So we'll back up for just a second.

Breed is largely a matter of preference but it's also a matter of what you can find available that are suitable. I usually have a few breeds in mind. But sometimes it comes down to finding a breed you can enjoy that has the tools for the job you want them for. I spent over 10 years to find my Doberman, & more than that to find the right SPOO. To be clear though I was striking out because many thought I had a crack in my head or that I was a maniac to want a SPOO for work as a bodyguard except I had trained with & handled two. I also found a kennel (more recently) in Russian who are breeding & handling SPOOs trained in bite sport but I didn't want to travel to Russia.

At the time when I was searching for a dog & picked my Giant Schnauzer, I had visited some working Bouvier kennels. I got to train with a couple & did not care for the some strong breed traits. They also weren't as agile as I wanted. I liked the sense of humor of the Briard but not the stubborn streak. The Giant Schnauzer offered a good looking dog that provided me the overall picture of what I wanted, a good looking dog who did not invite a lot of people to try her (she is 83 pounds of muscle, extremely powerful dog, she has a growl like a grizzly bear, & has a natural instinct to protect. We were moving to desert country & I've been told the Giant doesn't like heat but honestly heat & snow doesn't bother my dog within reason. She'll lay on snow & ice & when it was in the 90's with high humidity last week she'd go sun herself in full sunshine.

Likewise when she was old enough & I knew it was time to get a youngster I had been loosely looking for a SPOO, I had a near miss with the Russian breeder. Met someone breeding crossbreds that thought they would fool me. But then I found Mr. Layne's breeder. When I learned she had a breeding pair who had actively put an intruder out of the house... I had to hit her up. We talked for a long time & liked each other immediately. She prepared me & released the beasts. Her male & female charged like two battle warriors. The female stopped out of reach when the owner called her name & told her it's okay but the male rushed right up my nose practically but he went up on hind legs & came eye to eye with me. I heard both owners catch their breath. I looked at the dog & said, "Well hello there, aren't you a peach" & he turned on his hind legs, sat beside me, & leaned up against me. Instant friends. And no do not every let anyone release their dogs on you if you don't have enough experience to know what you're getting into. I do & had this gone bad I was prepared to take the hit. This pair was purely raw talent without proper training.

Stay tuned for more of traits to look for.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
@dogsavvy yeah, good Dobermans and German Shepherds are very hard to come by. The good breeders are the ones who breed for the dog to have an off switch too. Have you heard of Carmspack German Shepherds? She has been breeding for 40 years and knows what she is talking about, and does health testing. My next dog will be a German Shepherd from her.
I believe I have met one of her dogs but it's been a long time. It's always refreshing when a breeder is working for the old traits. Loved seeing the pics of her dogs working livestock. I miss being able to easily find such dogs. I'd love to know how you like your pup from her when you get one.

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For want of a Poodle,

You are wise to find nervous working dogs scary. The overwound, the nervy, the scatterbrained dogs are a liability. Dogs that over react, brainlessly chase movements give me the heebeegeebies. I've seen imported dogs who are so spun out they spin in their crates like possessed creatures or damage their own tails to the point bnb or requiring surgery. So sad.

Let's say you picked your breed, found a wonderful breeder, now you're looking at pups. I like to take my husband & let he & the breeder yak while I silently observe. I'm not really looking for the pups who romp all over me. Generally there will be a pup who is watching me. The pup takes it's time to decide. Then approaches. This pup isnt shy but she's cautious. On occasion I'll have a pup sneak up on me. If she tracks me, she's already working for me.

If the pup is challenging me it will depend on the read I get. The very clever pups dont rush in. They are bold but they are CAREFUL at that age. If that pup barks at my husband or us at first sight, I'll be watching those pups further. I dont want the bully. I dont want the wal mart greeter. I'm looking for a pup who assesses then proceeds so long as they're not fearful. One such pup followed me through her litter keeping well out of reach. Her brothers were all over us. I got sidetracked for a moment looking at the parents &.. I felt a presence. She sat down, looked up at me expectantly. I picked her up & for 13 years she protected us. I had another who scaled my britches leg like a cat.

Mr. Layne's breeder did the initial selection for us but when we arrived... she wanted us to meet the whole litter, dam, sire, offspring the kept from another litter & still had. She welcomed me to choose another puppy but she was spot on. He was quite aloof but covertly investigated me.

I've also bought puppies that the breeder selected & shipped to me. This requires a LOT of trust & communication. If the breeder want you to pick at 3 days old or a week old based on color, it is no good, not for a guardian. Where I got my Malinois was no issue, I'd trust that breeder with my life. With my Giant the breeder put far too much effort into exactly what we needed so i wasnt too worried.



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I can鈥檛 say I鈥檓 really familiar with guard type dogs, so please bare with me if my question is stupid lol.

I鈥檓 just curious as to what kind of breeder and puppy you should be looking for if you want a dog that kinda knows how to turn that protective trait on and off? Like, yes you see the potential intruder pup, but I say they鈥檙e okay; go back to normal. Is that even possible? Or would that all rely on the training you give it as an owner?

Also, I know I鈥檝e heard most people recommend or prefer European working lines when it comes to these certain breeds and I want to know if you feel they show a certain quality that North American lines don鈥檛 hold at all? Examples are dobermans, GSDs, and mastiffs.
 

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How would you assess a dog that barks while approaching people on your property?

I've always read that barking = lack of confidence. But Peggy's simultaneous approach confuses me. She's not hiding and barking, or even hanging back and barking. She barks and approaches until abruptly seeming to decide "friend," at which point she reverts to excited wiggles. (Although one neighbour, who has very calm, strong, confident energy, gets a sit with nose in the air and lolling tongue. Shameless "pet me" vibes.)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Luluspoo, your questions are all good.

There are a rare few dogs that are ready-baked to defend. These are top deck dogs, sometimes full bloodlines that with little to no training will engage a threat. Many of these dogs are not registered & their bloodlines are known by their breeder. You buy from this type of breeder because his/her word is gold, you can trust your life on it because you will be.

My Giant Schnauzer received no formal protection work training. She came to me at 5 months of age. Less than 24 hours after she arrived, she put herself between me & a relative that left the room & tried to come back in. In another month, my husband, testing the pup arranged for a visitor to raise a hand up like you might if you were going to hit someone from across the room. My dog had been snoozing on my feet & literally came to her feet, growling like a bear & by the time the hand was up she was lunging. She is not a top deck level but she's as close as 90% of civilians would want to live with. And a lot more dog than a lots of folks could handle.

So what kind of breeder. Generally usually you contact a breeder, read their website, etc... it's usually plainly stated & then you have to pick out truth vs exaggerated info. When I was on a Doberman quest I interviewed, visited, called over 200 kennels. Most people wont go to that extreme. Most breeders were honest, a few said they had what I sought only to find their dogs were just snuggle bugs. I followed the breeder's instructions but the people didnt hear me. I waited out on the patio. I frightened the breeder when I spoke from a pile if Dobermans on their swing as their elite guardians all tried to get in the swing with me My SPOOs breeder had the guard SPOOs locked in the house.

Yes it is indeed possible to have a dog who sparks on someone. You determine it's okay so you give the command, "its okay" & the dog simmers down. If it's a Giant Schnauzer you'll have a little moment of, "but... but..." then you praise your dog. With a guardian you become a constant communicator. (Its okay, I see him..... leave it. Let's go..... it's okay, I see him.) You get where you don't have to stop & think, you're just fluent. The dog has to have a thinking & thinking on the fly kind of brain with guardian instincts you cant creat that in training. You can create the illusion of it through creative training. The training is to put your commands to a purpose for the dog. For instance the delivery driver who popped up where I didnt expect. Because I'm startled the dog perceived threat & jumps to action but I realize it's my friendly UPS driver...whew. I must be able to reliably stop the dog's attack. So when I give the call out... the dog may not like it cause her blood is up but she will obey. We start with obedience & build. If we didnt terrify the driver I will ask if we can do a handshake to stabilize my dog (prior to this stupid covid). The drivers cooperate as they dont want issues concerning deliveries. The dog is used to this in training & life goes on.

When I had Dobermans they were Euro lines but bred in the US. Same for my GSDs. My Giant Schnauzer from the US. Her genetics are the result of a breeder's work over the course of 60+ years. Those Giants I know from Europe are more than most want to deal with. Fiery. Hot to handle. The German bred SPOOs I trained with were calm, quiet, & sharp eyed but were so easy to handle but they were no nonsense. There are so many breeds that dwindle when people try to breed out the very traits that make them who they are. Dobies are a prime example.

Please let me know if this answers your questions or if I missed something



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PeggythePartiPoodle,

That a dog barking at people is lacking in confidence is partially a myth. To be clear there are many dogs who do indeed bark because they are fearful & trying to run a bluff. You will see this a lot (in it's purest form) in puppies. They grumble, give the offending object a dirty look, hackles may go up, they may bark out but this response is because nature has them wise enough to realize that they are not big enough to do much against a larger, more formidable, likely more experienced foe. In others either they lack confidence or have been taught fear, or they were scared of something & no one addressed it. So it does exist, yes, but I find all too often people believe the pup is barking to bluff when they are simply communicating.

The barking while going toward someone requires you to read the whole dog in that moment. It could mean, "OH BOY a new human to pet & adore me" (which is what you're seeing with the sit & present herself to the nice petting-neighbor). It can mean an alert, "hey, I see someone & I don't know them" or "I see someone & I want my human to know they are here". If a dog has obstructed vision (by way of hair in the way like the OE Sheepdog, Shih Tzu, some Poodles, etc... it could mean I hear, smell, or sorta see a potential trespasser & the charging forward can be because they are advancing with their protecting of property as best they know how. I had a Shih Tzu who was like this. I mean full steam ahead & she was fierce & half the time she get right up to the human's leg & be like, "Well there you are, bark bark bark".

Now if she was barking, circling, advancing slowly with growls: this could simply be her style or indicate she's not confident enough to engage.

Another myth I'd like to bust because it's a huge pet peeve. A dog wagging his/her tail does NOT indicate affection for you. NO! Imagine me with news paper spatting your nose for arguing. DO NOT EVER assume the dog likes you based on the tail wag. A dog who is a guardian, has training, is confident & loves his or her work will wag that tail like nobody's business the whole time they are taking you down. SO no... when you see a dog wagging it's tail your first thought should be... read the rest of the dog. When in doubt keep hands to self. My imaginary newspaper knows no distance, whap! If you love the dog lovers in your life, get a newspaper & teach them...NO! don't believe the tail alone! My Giant doesn't wag her tail a whole bunch. Let someone try to come into the yard or house without my permission, when she makes that drive to the fence & makes her big show of "I am telling you you will not pass" her little tail will start wagging the moment she realizes someone is going to test her & try to pass or try to pet her.

Okay, I've got that out of my system (had to be said) & now back to our topic...
If Mr. Layne goes to the fence & barks but the visitor gets out of the car, he sizes the person up & if he doesn't like what he reads he will high tail it to the house & get help. He's such a smart boy. Now I can tell you many people would wash him out at that point but... he doesn't stay here. He comes sort of does this "HEY, GOTTA SITUATION HERE PEOPLE" this will set off a chain reaction & my Giant will be having a go at opening the door or looking for a window to clear. (My Giant... does not play when it comes to the safety of those she protects including her pups she raises. Mr. Layne will then drive back to the fence & this time he's going to be growling, barking (he's got a big booming, loud bark).

From what you're describing in Peggy, I'm betting this is her way of greeting. But you need to be very aware of if her bark/vocals change. If they change when she nears the person, you need to be right there. One thing I'm learning is how quickly the Poodle's mind works. A dog that lacks confidence will show some sign of nerves/uncertainty. This is the point that if the wrong thing happens the dog can get into a fear biting situation or can become permanently nervous. Confidence can be built from those moments if it's addressed.
 

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Wow!! This is all so fascinating. I did a quick read and now will go back and slow down and really absorb. Thank you so much!

Peggy does come and get me sometimes after her initial bark. I've never seen a dog do that before. And then she hangs back to let me lead the way back to the "intruder" (usually just someone parking out front to deliver a package).

If I tell her everything's okay, she gives herself a good hard shake (I assume to release tension) and trots back to the couch with maybe just a huff or two.

But this only happens sometimes and I've yet to identify the variable. The other extreme is furious, hysterical barking. That's when I think she could possibly bite if I were to put a hand on her collar, simply because her brain's switched off.

I'd like to extinguish that particular response, whereas the alert bark and then letting me in on the situation is pretty perfect for our lifestyle. Maybe I need to start rewarding her, although she seems rather pleased with herself regardless.

Thank you for sharing your experience so generously.

I've always had more submissive dogs, and just want to ensure I'm shaping her instincts in a positive way. The neighbour she loves is experienced with chow chows, and he really admires Peggy. He lights up when he talks about her, and has a newfound respect for poodles. Seeing her through his eyes, I feel encouraged.
 

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Thank you thank you thank you for the reminder about tail wagging not meaning friendly and happy to see you!!! There is a rescue rottie that frequents our dog park now. All of us leave when it arrives. The owners say oh, but see, he is friendly and wagging his tail! Ummm.... he is lunging at the fence, snarling growling and glaring at me and my dog with his tail wagging( . No, he is not friendly .
My question is about choosing a breed or a breed type. I think of guardian dogs as divided into livestock guardians, like Maremmas akbash, and Pyrs, shepherds, like German shepherds and Malinois, pure guard breeds, like dobermanns, rottweilers, akita, and mastiffs like cane corsos, bullmastiffs, etc. How would you classify the types and what are the differences? Where do dogs like the Briard, Bouvier, and giant schnauzer fit in(shepherd?)? How would you suggest choosing between breeds or types? I admit to a strong love for those first two types though i lack the acreage for a livestock guardian and the time and stamina for a Malinois- the ones i know make Annie looks slow! My first dog, who i only have the faintest remembrance of was a livestock guardian type who liked to kill coyotes , ward off salespeople and guard small children that didn't belong to her for recreation.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
PeggythePartiPoodle
"The other extreme is furious, hysterical barking. That's when I think she could possibly bite if I were to put a hand on her collar, simply because her brain's switched off. "

First you are most welcome for the info.

Now this part I've quoted. This is really good information for anyone who wants to learn about this stuff. That part where the dog's brain shuts off, that's when the dog is in a whole other world & if they go there & shut you out things can get super super dangerous in a split second. So how to you prevent them from going there... the way I know to do it is to work the dog in a way so that rather than go there... they become unaccustomed to going to crazy town but instead are listening to your voice, relying on you as the leader, you are a team together rather than a dog & a human doing their own thing.

I don't know how others do this so different trainers, different methods. My guys are trained on old military working obstacles, so that if they go to climb something & let's say they have trouble with their footing & rather than having to figure it out & find it, you say, "It's okay" & you help them place that foot, help with their balance, whatever they need. Now the dog begins to learn, 'hey, this human is helpful'. You have a dog go on a beam that has an over under (this is a walk over beam that's fairly narrow but has cross ribs over so the dog can be directed to go over, then under, under, then over so she has to balance, deal with rear foot placement AND listen for which way you want her to go under or over, you might have her wait before she does the next thing.

I made an obstacle course out of my dinning room chairs & the kitchen table, a table cloth, the back of the couch narrow to the wall. So my dog had to not just fly through like you would in a speed event but she's relying on you. Now the fun part in how I train is you're going to go WITH the dog. So hubby might come home to find me on hands & knees, GI Jane belly crawling under simulated wires (which are simply yarn stretched out & wrapped around the chairs. Once the dog understands & can do it, I can begin, one thing at a time sending her alone... then combine obstacles & do them in different patterns. Little small high steps or jumps & again, not speed... just about listening, taking direction. I've taught dogs to pull from a harness using a laundry basket & two nylon leashes. A wheel barrow that you use in the garden makes a great obstacle for teaching trust. The first time you may lift your SPOO & put her in the wheelbarrow. Then you give the dog a sit command & you lift the thing by the handles. You will have some stops & starts because at first she might think about leaping out before you kill her because things are moving & she's not used to it. Everyone over lifts or goes to far the first exercise. Tell her "Stay" then lift it just an inch or so. When she stays, praise "GOOD stay" The best learning happens for these super smart dogs when things are INTERESTING & uncertain (so long as you don't wig them out). So you go in baby steps until you can her sit-stay or down-stay while you wheel her around. Test how high you can raise your end. Always use safety in mind & don't get carried away & over shoot what you're physical strength can handle but once they can do this, you could use a barrel or if you go to a park with a teeter totter... have the dog walk up. Practice the lift & lower with sit-stay, down-stay. Merry go rounds at the park are great for this too. You have the dog step up & move the thing. (of course you have to time this so some kid doesn't jump up scare the dog or shove you & her off to the moon!)

When you do some of this stuff at home, then venture to a quiet park where you can attempt some of this stuff. I use the slides too but I don't recommend it due to the height on a handler that doesn't know how to safety harness their dog.

Your imagine is the only thing limiting you in this kind of training. Just keep safety first & forefront of your mind. But when you engage a dog's mind this way you will discover the more training you do the less they go to crazy town because they are listening for your direction. So that means you have to get more vocal. Someone comes up you need to respond. Mine is always, "it's okay, I see 'im" when someone arrives or we come near someone at a park. It's important because a watchful dog is going to question all the people & dogs we encounter so you always answer that question before they have to do the thinking & step into leadership role. You don't have to be loud, dog's hearing is quite keen AND if you're doing your home work... she'll have her ear open just for you
 

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That鈥檚...wow. That鈥檚 amazing, I love how you had to have a friendly interaction with the delivery driver to show them that it鈥檚 okay. I think if I someday decide to get a guard type dog, that would be kind of ideal. The teamwork of your spoo and schnauzer?? Uh, love it! You鈥檙e an amazing trainer (I鈥檒l take two pups from your schnauzer line LOL)

One more question because you mention you鈥檝e looked into buying from breeders overseas. How did you know that they weren鈥檛 a waste of time before paying them a visit? How did you know they were the real deal? Lastly, where do you find those kind of reputable breeders overseas?
 

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I believe I have met one of her dogs but it's been a long time. It's always refreshing when a breeder is working for the old traits. Loved seeing the pics of her dogs working livestock. I miss being able to easily find such dogs. I'd love to know how you like your pup from her when you get one.

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It is! I loved it too. I don't see many German Shepherds herding anymore. Okay, I will let you know, but it is probably going to be around 7 years before I get one from them. School and housing come first!! Do you know of any good working Australian Shepherd breeders? I want to breed them when I move to Canada, but I have to find a good breeder and build a relationship with them.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
LulusSpoo

A zillion years ago I was offered the job as kennel master in an old German man's kennel. Didn't take the job but have been friends ever since. He has been helpful though I do try not to lean on him too much. It's very hard to know who is a straight shooter in an overseas transaction & there's a LOT of expense & no recourse if it goes bad. Even with help. You cant always count on what your friend has is current or accurate because people lie to him all the time

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Discussion Starter #20
ForWantofaPoodle,

You are most welcome about the tail info.

I divide the groups like this:

Molosser breeds: Rotties, Mastiffs, most of the livestock guardians, etc...

**** these are the big bruisers. Lot of muscle. It's a big group but they are brawlers. Big crushing bite power. Lots from this group were used to dispatch poachers. They were used for brutal work.
The Rottweiler was also used as a cart dog & livestock drover. They have a high pain tolerance. The livestock guards are designed to fight wolves, bears, mountain lions, coyotes. Tough dogs
For my taste, a lot of these dogs are slow maturing & it takes patience to bring them along especially if you're accustomed to quick learning quick responding dogs


Bull Breeds are a subset of this group: pits, American Bulldogs

* generally a faster dogs but still muscular & strong. I like training with dogs in this group

Herders/Drovers: shepherds, collies, Briards, Beauceron, Kelpies, healers,

** I favor this group. Fast minds, fast bodies, quick witted. These are thinkers with fast reaction time. These dogs place high priority on their job & family.

Terriers: Airedale, Black Russian

*******these guys are fierce & tenacious. They dont know the word quit which can be a blessing...& a curse. Love me some terror terriers but they are all guts. The Airedale has the longest canines of all the breeds (to my knowledge) & are notorious hog hunters. FIERCE

Working dogs: Doberman, Giant & Standard Schnauzer, Boxer, Danes

*** my other favorite. Dobes were the breed created to be man's bodyguard. These like se herders these dogs are serious & loyal. They've got a mind designed for their work.

The Northern breeds: malamute, husky, Spitz breeds

**** not a group I work with for guards except RARE occasions. Their need to get out & run makes it hard for them to act as a guardian.

Hunters: Ridgebacks, Standard Poodles, Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, some Labs, Redbones,

***these breeds can get in trouble because their noses lead them off. Exceptions CAN be some of those above. Chessies can become so over protective they become hard to manage. I've trained a few Labs & witnessed some very good Labs, usually blacks, sometimes yellow. Never seen but 1 chocolate work like that. The trouble with the hunters is they can get stubborn & their brains are wired for game except... Poodles.

To me the Poodle belongs in the working group except they started on hunting. Mine has a strong instinct to pursue birds but very different from other hunters




(I will finish tomorrow)

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