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This must be frustrating for sure. Does Jasper always throw up before, during or after these episodes and do these episodes mostly happen after exercise or when he's excited? I know Labradors are prone to Exercised Induced Collapse (EIC) and was wondering if this has been ruled out by Jaspers doctors?
Please keep us updated.
I think there are now genetic tests for both EIC and CSS (Canine Stress Syndrome).
 

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Yes, they do, nu2, but I haven't heard of this disorder being a problem in poodles and don't know if Spoos are generally tested for it.
Hope answers come soon.
 

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Yes, I looked around a bit for mention of these disorders in relation to Poodles and did not find anything. Still ... it's nagging ... :afraid:

I can say that, if it were my dog, I would make a radical shift in diet, meanwhile continuing the search for other causes. I don't mean shifting from one commercial dog food to another, but shifting from commercial dog food to homemade or raw food (or a combination of these). It may not help, but it is also unlikely to hurt, so long as it is done conscientiously.

The dog food mentioned by Ted above, Blue BasicsTM Turkey and Potato Recipe, is not high in meat content, but is loaded with peas, potatoes, and rice (ingrdients: "Deboned Turkey, Peas, Potatoes, Whole Ground Brown Rice, Turkey Meal, Flaxseed (source of Omega 3 and 6 Fatty Acids ... "; remember ingredients are listed by weight, so the turkey, which is wet 'til the 5th ingredient, is not really the primary ingredient). I think the dog food companies can make anything taste like anything, and make it taste good to a dog (or a human, for that matter). It's alot of vegetable fiber & starch for an animal that is basically a carnivore.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Hi, Sorry to hear your family is having this issue. Have you tried filming an episode? It might help the doctors make a diagnosis if they can see it rather then just having it described to them. If I missed where you have already mentioned filming it, my apologies. Hopefully this is figured out soon. Thinking healing thoughts.
Yes, we did end up videoing his episodes a couple of times. That's how we ended up at Cornell. Our vet took one look at the video and called the emergency room at Cornell and off we went, all five of us. We used the videos at Cornell and at the local animal hospital for the neurologic, heart and ultrasound specialists. If we hadn't had the videos, I don't think the doctors would have believed us because he was usually fine by the time we arrived for testing or emergency room visits. Appreciate the healing thoughts!

This must be frustrating for sure. Does Jasper always throw up before, during or after these episodes and do these episodes mostly happen after exercise or when he's excited? I know Labradors are prone to Exercised Induced Collapse (EIC) and was wondering if this has been ruled out by Jaspers doctors?
Please keep us updated.
Super frustrating!!! He threw-up this AM, but has been fine all day. The majority of times he has the episodes, he doesn't throw-up. He only threw-up bad during the first episode.

We've not been able to find any documented instances of EIC in Spoos.

I can say that, if it were my dog, I would make a radical shift in diet, meanwhile continuing the search for other causes. I don't mean shifting from one commercial dog food to another, but shifting from commercial dog food to homemade or raw food (or a combination of these). It may not help, but it is also unlikely to hurt, so long as it is done conscientiously.
We tried a diet of hamburger and rice, intermingled with pumpkin, per our vet, for a couple of months and he was still having bad episodes. Now, knock on wood, the episodes are milder, however, we don't like them at all!
Very frustrating and really scary. He's fine right now, I can take him for a walk and in 2 minutes (w/o warning), he will slow down and act like he can barely move. We feel really sorry for him!!! Our vet is out of ideas, as is Cornell other than seizure meds.

For what we've been thru in testing and the ups and downs, for us and Jasper, we're not apt to go for another barrage of tests until we get a better coefficient of confidence that we might be on the right track. Our vet can't think of any tests to run that we haven't already run.

Why were the original episodes so intense and took so long for recovery and now they are a lot milder and he recovers in 1/2 hour? Makes no sense at all!

Thanks for the replies and help - Ted
 

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Was there any pest control done in the area recently that you know of? Also, when was he last vaccinated or given shots before he had the first episode?
One has to wonder about chemical toxicity in the environment, in vaccinations or in food.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Was there any pest control done in the area recently that you know of? Also, when was he last vaccinated or given shots before he had the first episode?
One has to wonder about chemical toxicity in the environment, in vaccinations or in food.
We live in the middle of a large field. So, we control all the pest control and fertilizer/weed killer. None was used this year because when we would have done it, he got sick. So, we didn't do anything this year along those lines. Also, our neighbors didn't do anything either this year.

He is never outside w/o us, so we're positive that he didn't get into anything. I'm literally with him 24 x 7, so we know it is not anything along those lines.

He was vaccinated as normal and it was months before any of the episodes started. Our other dogs have been fine showing no signs of any of the problems that Jasper has been experiencing. They are usually all vaccinated at the same time as it is easier to track and to do.

I've been leaning towards the food. Haven't found any recalls on our brand. I did read about vitamin D toxicity issues a couple of years ago. Symptoms were similar to Jasper's.

Ted
 

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Since you've changed his food, we will hope and pray that Jaspers condition improves as the offending substance works its way out of his body.
 

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Ted,

Has epilepsy been considered & ruled out ? -- &, perhaps, especially the late-onset form, Lafora Disease? (is found in Poodles, but, I think, is relatively rare).


A long shot, but, perhaps, not unworthy of a little consideration, is a tick-borne disease (not necessarily Lyme, and perhaps not detected in routine tests), if Jasper has had exposure to these. Some forms(& combinations) can be tricky to diagnose.
 

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It took three years to for one of my dogs to finally be diagnosed with seizures. It really sounds like seizures to me.

I know how frustrating it is and how helpless you feel. I am so sorry.

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Discussion Starter #51
I'm wondering if they tested vitamin D in his bloodwork and if that would be elevated if it was a D toxicity?
We checked his blood several times. He never showed any high levels of vitamin D. However, I have read that some dogs have naturally low levels of vitamin D, so when it shows as normal it is really elevated. We never had to run any blood work on him before (other than normal checkups), so we don't have a good base to compare.

Ted,

Has epilepsy been considered & ruled out ? -- &, perhaps, especially the late-onset form, Lafora Disease? (is found in Poodles, but, I think, is relatively rare).

The Cornell neurological group did extensive testing on him and they were confident that it wasn't epilepsy. Their review of our videos was the basis for this.

A long shot, but, perhaps, not unworthy of a little consideration, is a tick-borne disease (not necessarily Lyme, and perhaps not detected in routine tests), if Jasper has had exposure to these. Some forms(& combinations) can be tricky to diagnose.
This is a good point because we have lots of deer and turkey on our property. Cornell ran a spinal tap and brain fluid tests on him and everything came back normal.

It took three years to for one of my dogs to finally be diagnosed with seizures. It really sounds like seizures to me.

I know how frustrating it is and how helpless you feel. I am so sorry.

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How did you finally figure out it was seizures? Cornell's neurologic group's approach was that if they can't find anything wrong, then it has to be some form of seizure. However, their heart group also felt that if you can't find anything wrong, it could be heart related. They couldn't find anything with extensive testing.

Jasper had a really mild spell yesterday morning. This is beyond frustrating!!!

Thank you for all the input and comments. Ted
 

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I recorded every episodes in a log and the circumstances. I was finally able to walk in the door with her in the middle of one. About two years after her diagnosis she had Vestibulers.

At eight and a half it could very easily be a combination of things. Seizures are often secondary to another condition.

Hoping that someone will soon find out what is wrong with your beautiful boy.

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Discussion Starter #54
Everyone has been so nice and helpful on this forum, I thought that I would post an update on Jasper. Knock on wood, he hasn't had an episode since my last writing! Fingers crossed big time on this! I felt really bad for him, so we got some limited ball playing (really limited) in the last couple of days. He just loves it!!! No ill effects of the exercise. This is a quality of life issue with him. He lives to play and is really unhappy if he doesn't get to. To be fair, if he can't play, nobody gets to play. I'm really cautious with this, since we don't know what is wrong with him! However, he has played a lot everyday since he was 8 weeks old and I can tell he doesn't feel alive w/o playing. The difference in his attitude is amazing! Anybody that thinks dogs don't have feelings, need to do what is fun to them or aren't really smart is clueless! All day long now he is looking in the pocket of my coat for a ball.

My wife and I were talking the other night about heart worm meds. We've had a couple of hard frosts here over the last couple of weeks. So, we've taken the boys off hard worm meds and flea/tick meds until spring. We've done this every year for probably the last 30 years. Our vet changed heart worm meds this year. After a couple of months of the new heart worm meds, Jasper developed his problem. Has anybody had problems with heart worm meds? Thanks - Ted
 

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Thank you for the update ! Good news; fingers crossed ...

What are the new heartworm meds ? There are reports of some dogs having difficulties with some of these. Need to be careful sorting these reports though. One of my Vets wanted to put Rain on Trifexis. After doing research on this med, I declined (too new & 'iffy' for me).
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Thank you for the update ! Good news; fingers crossed ...

What are the new heartworm meds ? There are reports of some dogs having difficulties with some of these. Need to be careful sorting these reports though. One of my Vets wanted to put Rain on Trifexis. After doing research on this med, I declined (too new & 'iffy' for me).
We put them all on Sentinel this year at our vet's suggestion. We've always had them on Interceptor, since when I can remember. Ted
 

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Thank you so much for giving us an update ! I am so glad that your guy has been doing better.

I do not give my senior dogs anything for heartworm. Heart worms grow very slowly. I would not risk giving heartworm meds to him again.

Do you follow Dr. Jean Dodds vaccine protocol ? If not I would recommend researching it.

Sending good wishes and hoping that you have found the problem.

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I just saw this thread today, as I have not been spending much time on PF in the last few months. I am so very sorry to hear about Jasper. I know how frustrating not knowing must be!!! I am glad you are following up on many of the suggestions posted here -- this is a good group of poodle owners with lots of information.

My vet wanted to keep Sunny on heartguard over the winter, too, but honestly, I am thinking it is not necessary and I hate to give him meds unless absolutely necessary. He was on Revolution throughout the spring and summer.

Sending positive thoughts and wishes your way!
 

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I don't , nor have I ever, giving any of my dogs heart worm meds. I have never had a sick dog, all my dogs have lived to be very old dogs without issues. I don't know if that is a factor or not, but I am sticking with what has worked for me. I don't like to give any meds, if I can help it. So glad to hear your boy is doing better. Thanks for the update.
 
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