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I hope this doesn't go against the forum rules, but I read them and I don't think this would be considered "defamatory". It's just a warning to any future buyers who are looking within Ontario.

This breeder is breeding Standard Poodles, Bernese Mountain Dogs, German Shorthaired Pointers, Golden Retrievers AND Doodle mixes of them all it seems.

They do not health test their dogs.

They do not prove their dogs (titles, conformation, sports, hunting, etc.).

They seem to breed and raise them in a kennel on their property, not in the home.

They advertise on Kijiji.

I believe their dogs are registered with the Continental Kennel Club, if not they're just flat out lying about registration.

They charge different prices for different colours.

They only offer a one year health guarantee.

They charge an exorbitant amount of money for poorly bred puppies.

Anyone who is interested in a Standard Poodle, please avoid this breeder. They are a high volume BYB or a Puppy Mill.
 

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Multiple breeds all at the same time sure is a huge red flag. Mixes are likely and it seems to make it very hard to do anything really good with any of the breeds if you are keeping large numbers of dogs and such. This reminds me of the flow chart about should you breed your dog that we have had posted here a number of times. I have included a link to a version of it. Note it is much easier to get to no than to yes.

Own Responsibly: Should You Breed Your Dog?-- A Flowchart
 

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Thanks Lily for sharing that chart! Very clearly explained.

I think it is Molly who has posted it previously, but it is a really good way to think things through. I look at it and I just think I have no business breeding even though all three of my dogs are healthy and well built. Both poodles have lots of Ch and GCh in their pedigrees, but that doesn't mean the future poodles of the world really need their genes. Seeing a greeder who really makes money from puppies makes me sad/mad.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Makes me upset too. When you see breeders like this, charging thousands, when they don't spend a dime on health testing or titling the dogs, it shows how much money they're just straight pocketing. That shows their real intentions and goals.

It's sad many people believe that if they spend more it must mean they're getting a better dog. It just isn't true. I wish more people would do research. With other things in life, I think most people do at least some research. Like with computers, smart phones, cars, appliances, everyone wants their purchase to be reliable and long-lasting. But a commitment to a living being, who you will be taking care of for 15ish years, is an impulsive decision for many.
 

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Stone Cold left me, just that, stone cold disgusted. These poodle cross milllers never start litters with quality dogs. They fail on the flow chart every step, except one not listed, which is what is the priciest cross going to be? Bernadoodles are having a moment...
 

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Stone Cold left me, just that, stone cold disgusted. These poodle cross milllers never start litters with quality dogs. They fail on the flow chart every step, except one not listed, which is what is the priciest cross going to be? Bernadoodles are having a moment...
Kills me that unsuspecting families just wanting "a good dog" pay so much money thinking that will protect them from the heartache that is a sick family dog. They think they did right by buying from a "breeder" and you throw in the non-sense of "hybrid vigor" and you have the perfect storm. Loads of the advertisement is aimed directly at children who are in charge of choosing their dog. Total nightmare!
 

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I know a dog who is a "designer" hybrid/"new breed" chosen by a child. She is an English Springer Spaniel crossed to a Flat Coated Retriever (rage x cancer, duh!). So far a fairly pleasant and healthy dog although pretty hyperactive. Moni that is a sad part of this when kids are getting suckered and then their parents don't know better or try to resist and then cave.
 

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Anytime I see someone selling and raising more than one breed, my mind immediately goes to 'designer dog'. I am so tired of people coming up to me and asking if he is a real poodle... and then excitedly telling me they are getting a doodle of some sort,like that is better!

One time I took my dog to a new groomer. It was before he had been neutered. I was horrified to go pick him up and having him all freaked out and very poorly groomed. The groomer had the nerve to even tell me she wanted to breed her dog. (And I suspect she used him!). I never went back. She had specifically told me I could not wait for him as I had wanted.

Thanks for the awesome chart. I should have some printed to hand out at the dog park, and to anyone I know looking for a dog, or thinking about having pups with their own dog.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Anytime I see someone selling and raising more than one breed, my mind immediately goes to 'designer dog'. I am so tired of people coming up to me and asking if he is a real poodle... and then excitedly telling me they are getting a doodle of some sort,like that is better!

One time I took my dog to a new groomer. It was before he had been neutered. I was horrified to go pick him up and having him all freaked out and very poorly groomed. The groomer had the nerve to even tell me she wanted to breed her dog. (And I suspect she used him!). I never went back. She had specifically told me I could not wait for him as I had wanted.

Thanks for the awesome chart. I should have some printed to hand out at the dog park, and to anyone I know looking for a dog, or thinking about having pups with their own dog.
kontiki, I am not looking forward to doodle fans asking if our poodle is a doodle... I am going to make it my mission to make sure she looks like a poodle! But I'm sure there will still be people asking. Doodles are everywhere around here.

What a horrible experience for your poor dog, and you! I cannot imagine, and never would have thought that a groomer would do something like that. That's horrendous. I hope that she did not use him.
 

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This post was created after my intro.

Couple of "mis information

His dogs have been health checked. He showed me the documentation

His dogs are CKC and AKC registered. His merle stud came from California. That breeder also sent along health documentation.

The breeder he received his dog from as well as stone cold kennels never breed merle x merle due to health concerns.

He lives on 30 acres of land. Family business with many years under their belts. Massive heated kennels, nursery, and ample room to play safely in a secure area.

Said breeder is also a ckc judge. I looked it up myself on the ckc website. He used to show dogs, now he judges them.

I understand poodle people turn their nose at merles due to health concerns. And I very much appreciate all the information I have been provided to ensure a good tempered and healthy dog. Breeding dogs is this man's (and family) business. That's what he does for a living.

Any question, concern, documentation request have all been answered quickly and without reservation.
 

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This post was created after my intro.

Couple of "mis information

His dogs have been health checked. He showed me the documentation

Being "health checked" is not the same as health tested! Please do a search for "health testing" on this forum to understand how much work goes into it. It's not a simple vet check!!!

His dogs are CKC and AKC registered. His merle stud came from California. That breeder also sent along health documentation.

AKC and UKC (only for multi-colored poodles!) are the only legit registries. Canadian Kennel Club for Canadian dogs is the equivalent of AKC in the US. But Continental Kennel Club or American Canine Association (or whatever) are garbage.

The breeder he received his dog from as well as stone cold kennels never breed merle x merle due to health concerns.

Well, that's good that he didn't breed lethal dogs, but merles should NEVER be bred in poodles. Your dog is mixed with something else down the line, probably Australian Shepherd.

He lives on 30 acres of land. Family business with many years under their belts. Massive heated kennels, nursery, and ample room to play safely in a secure area.

Ew, ew, ew. I hate kennels. And family business? Red flag of a mill. Show breeders do this as a hobby.

Said breeder is also a ckc judge. I looked it up myself on the ckc website. He used to show dogs, now he judges them.

Are you talking about the Canadian Kennel Club or Continental? Must be Continental.

I understand poodle people turn their nose at merles due to health concerns. And I very much appreciate all the information I have been provided to ensure a good tempered and healthy dog. Breeding dogs is this man's (and family) business. That's what he does for a living.

He's doing it for money, duh. Show breeders do it for the love and preservation of the breed.

Any question, concern, documentation request have all been answered quickly and without reservation.
Of course they have. It's his "business."

Sorry for being defensive, but I abhor greeders who are just trying to make a profit and I LOVE the poodle breed and appreciate the dedicated show breeders who work dilligently to preserve our dear breed.
 

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I'm not about to argue with you, or anyone for that matter.

Pages of documentation on dogs health... like a small novel. Excuse me for not using the proper terminology.

Stud came from California. Had his AKC. When he came to Canada, he was then registered under the Canadian Kennel Club. Paperwork that was filled out upon adopting the dog again was for the Canadian kennel club.

He is a judge for the canadian kennel club. Would you like me to take a screen shot and send it your way for verification?!?

At the end of the day, we are not breeding the dog. We are not showing the dog. We simply wanted a well tempered dog of a certain size that was non shedding. We wanted a dog that would make a good playmate for our 10 year old daughter. We wanted a dog that would be eager to play in the water, go hiking, play fetch and maybe even do agility.

So fingers point towards my poodle being a mutt. Ok. Fine. I don't really care. I understand fully being passionate about a dog breed. But at the end of the day, every dog regardless of pedigree deserves a good and loving home.... which is what we intend on giving our Marley boy.
 

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I'm not about to argue with you, or anyone for that matter.

Pages of documentation on dogs health... like a small novel. Excuse me for not using the proper terminology.

Stud came from California. Had his AKC. When he came to Canada, he was then registered under the Canadian Kennel Club. Paperwork that was filled out upon adopting the dog again was for the Canadian kennel club.

He is a judge for the canadian kennel club. Would you like me to take a screen shot and send it your way for verification?!?

At the end of the day, we are not breeding the dog. We are not showing the dog. We simply wanted a well tempered dog of a certain size that was non shedding. We wanted a dog that would make a good playmate for our 10 year old daughter. We wanted a dog that would be eager to play in the water, go hiking, play fetch and maybe even do agility.

So fingers point towards my poodle being a mutt. Ok. Fine. I don't really care. I understand fully being passionate about a dog breed. But at the end of the day, every dog regardless of pedigree deserves a good and loving home.... which is what we intend on giving our Marley boy.

I don't disagree with you on the point of not blaming or shaming the dog, but make no mistake about it this dog who I hope will be well loved as a member of your family is a poodley type but definitely not a poodle. I do have a problem with doing business with someone who misrepresents a dog as a poodle or any other sort of a dog when there is clear evidence it cannot really be what it is represented to be. And I don't like big kennels as out buildings for very sensitive dogs such as poodles. They should be house raised start to finish.
 

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Thank you ZM and Lily for setting the record straight here. I am having a very hard time believing that a CKC (Canadian) judge is running this mutt operation? Please do post a screen shot of that.

Yes there are Merle poodles that have been (100% falsely) registered with AKC. Somewhere back, a parent was lied about on the registration papers (because one parent was an Aussie or other Merle breed, not a poodle.) and every Merle puppy’s color has to be lied about on the registration papers because Merle isn’t a color included on the paperwork, as Merle is not a color naturally occurring in poodles. I’m glad your dog has a loving home which he does deserve but it’s too bad that his breeder is lying on paperwork and if the CKC knew this, he wouldn’t be judging for them.
 

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Interesting that this person is only licensed to do beagle field trials.

It makes me so mad when people breed dogs with disqualifying faults and then sell them as "rare". Darned right they are rare - as they should be! This is no different than breeding crosses (doodles, for example) and selling them for exorbitant prices as "designer" breeds.

Ethical breeders spend many years trying to breed dogs to the standard. I suspect some of these greeders have never read the standard, much less learned about their dogs' ancestors.
 

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Well believe it sista. Screen shots attached. I blacked out his personal info, but look at the matching cell number.
Excellent sleuthing, McAwesome.


I looks like he is only a judge for beagle field trials which has nothing to do with conformation.

I didn't know what a beagle field trial is so I googled CKC and found "
Home > Events > Overview of Events > Beagle Field Trials
At Beagle trials, hounds run in braces (pairs) or packs, pursuing rabbits or hares. They must use their keen noses to locate the game, then trail it enthusiastically, giving ‘tongue’ so their handlers know where they are and are able to follow. Similar events are also offered for Basset Hounds." I presume for Basset Hounds they have their own judges.

"The Beagle is primarily a hunting dog whose main function is to find game and to chase it in an energetic and decisive manner. The purpose of Beagle Field Trials is to demonstrate these natural abilities and recognize those dogs that demonstrate the highest qualities of a Beagle."

I wonder why he isn't breeding beagles? Poodles and poodle mixes don't participate in beagle field trials.

I know you are thrilled with the dog you got from them and at the end of the day if your puppy makes you happy then that's a good thing.
 
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