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Discussion Starter #1
I doubt whether there is really any totally definite answer to this, I just wanted opinions.

When I first decided that I wanted a poodle, I looked at the breed standard and I thought I would get a standard poodle. I would look for one around maybe 17 inches tall. Then I started looking. I looked at just about every site I could find on the Internet in Canada and the US. I saw things like "his daddy is a big boy - 28" and might still get bigger". Hold on a minute ----- I looked around and I found that while 17 inches was within the standard - at least it is in Canada - nowhere could I find a breeder that showed their dogs that had a Standard Poodle that would be anywhere near that small.

I found non-showing breeders with Moyen or Klein Standards. But if you don't show your dogs, how do you really know whether yours are any good?

Can someone tell me - or give me an opinion on why nobody shows full grown 17 inch Standard Poodles? When I discovered there was really no such thing - that was when I started checking on Goldendoodles etc. but in the end I settled for a miniature. I am sure I will be happy with a mini, but I still hanker after a good quality 17/18 inch Standard!!!
 

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No one shows a 17" Standard for the same reason that no one shows a 12" Mini. The bigger dogs in each variety just seem to have more presence in the ring and they seem to move better. Most Minis you see showing are 14-15" with some even being taller (you can hear the thoughts of some handlers..... please God don't let the judge pull out the wicket!). There are some lines of Minis that go over and are routinely 16"

Bigger does not seem to be better in Standards the way it is in Toys and Minis. After a certain point a large Standard gets coarse and loses its style and elegance. Most of the Standard Poodles in our area are bitches 21-24" and dogs 23-26". With 23" and 25" being the most common sizes for bitches and dogs. I have seen a 20" bitch finish but I know that people with bitches over 24" have not been able to finish their bitches in our area. I occasionally see a dog over 26" in this area, but they are not usually desirable as breeding dogs because most folks seem to like to breed for a moderately sized Standard Poodle. I actually know a local breeder who neutered her puppy dog when he got to 28". I have been told that the east coast dogs tend to be on the larger size, but looking in the stud issue of Poodle Variety, most stud dogs came in under 27".

There are people who are breeding so called Moyens. However, rather than breeding a Standard down in size, they have simply crossed a Mini on a Standard. This gives the resulting dog a mixed bag of parts and often these Moyens are long in body but short in leg.
 

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In Europe the height of a standard is over 18 inch and under 24.5 inch.

I have a female that is 20.8 inches very nice size but she is considered to be a small standard.

In the FCI we have a size that is called medium poodle, you could get one like that they are from 13.7-17.7 inch

here is a link to some breeders Top miniature kennels - Poodles in Scandinavia

although they are called miniatures on this page the real name for this size is medium :)
 

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My silver male is only 22 inches.....his grandfather or maybe great grandfather (i'd have to check) was Peter from Whisperwind and I heard he was a little thing. I love Bens smallness when he sits on my lap in the front seat of the van....however no judge would pull him out of a line-up of 27 or 28 inch males. He has an adorable gait, but its like comparing a pony to a thorobred.
 

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. After a certain point a large Standard gets coarse and loses its style and elegance. Most of the Standard Poodles in our area are bitches 21-24" and dogs 23-26". With 23" and 25" being the most common sizes for bitches and dogs. I have seen a 20" bitch finish but I know that people with bitches over 24" have not been able to finish their bitches in our area. I occasionally see a dog over 26" in this area, but they are not usually desirable as breeding dogs because most folks seem to like to breed for a moderately sized Standard Poodle. I actually know a local breeder who neutered her puppy dog when he got to 28". I have been told that the east coast dogs tend to be on the larger size, but looking in the stud issue of Poodle Variety, most stud dogs came in under 27".

I agree with cbrand.The people who usually breed for big poodles are usually not reputable anyways. Their dogs are not elegant let alone show quality IMO.

A breeder I know had a big dog she finished last year he was HUGE about 27 maybe 28 inches. Standing ring side listening to all of the comments was a hoot. Everyone kept saying what is that horse doing in the ring ? lol

Even though the AKC standard states 15 and up I don't think people should be breeding 28" and above poodles ..... I could barely stand the 27" dog I saw.... Since poodles where created for retrieving, huge dogs are not used a lot for retrieving. If you look at the standards for the sporting group you will see most are of moderate size similar to what show breeders are breeding for in Standard poodles.

Basically you don't see 27" and up Labrador retrievers lol ( granted the standard does not allow it) But looking back in history if big dogs where better at the the job the standard would reflect this and this is how I feel when looking into the past for answers.
 

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I found non-showing breeders with Moyen or Klein Standards. But if you don't show your dogs, how do you really know whether yours are any good?

Yes you will never find a breeder in USA or Canada showing this size since its not allowed in the standards.
 

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Talking about size.. two standard males came into the salon yesterday to be groomed by one of the other groomers. They're faded apricot males, both neutered young and littermates. They're HUGE! We don't have a tape measure in the salon so I measured him with my arm. From my fingertips touching the grooming table by his feet, my shoulder was up to his shoulder. I measured it when I got home that dog was 30 inches! I KID YOU NOT!
 

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I kept a boy out of my very 1st litter. I end up neutering him for a number of reasons, but one concern I had was that he was very small. He only ended up around 22" and I thought that was too small for a boy.

Now I realize that I really love that size. If I could find a high quality Black or Brown stud who was 22", boy I'd jump at the chance! Unfortunately, it seems to be the other way for me. Every stud who catches my eye seems to be huge. Ugh. I don't like big. I find that bigger Poodles are less agile and for the show ring, it takes too long to grow neck hair on them!
 

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I kept a boy out of my very 1st litter. I end up neutering him for a number of reasons, but one concern I had was that he was very small. He only ended up around 22" and I thought that was too small for a boy.

Now I realize that I really love that size. If I could find a high quality Black or Brown stud who was 22", boy I'd jump at the chance! Unfortunately, it seems to be the other way for me. Every stud who catches my eye seems to be huge. Ugh. I don't like big. I find that bigger Poodles are less agile and for the show ring, it takes too long to grow neck hair on them!
Enzo is about 22" ;)
I like his size , I can pick him up with ease. The judges don't seem to care that he is a smaller male either so I hope Ihave luck this weekend with him.:)

Every stud I like or breeder I like has brown in their dogs LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yes you will never find a breeder in USA or Canada showing this size since its not allowed in the standards.
I don't see why not. When I read the Canadian standard it said that anything over 15 inches at the highest point of the shoulder.

The so-called moyen or klein poodles or pudels or whatever were that size. I would have bought a Standard Poodle if I could have found one that was 17 inches at the shoulder. According to the above, that is within the allowed size for a Standard Poodle. Not that I wanted to show my dog. I want one for obedience and agility, but I couldn't find one.

If someone can tell me where I could find a 17 inch standard poodle, any colour, from a reputable breeder that breeds for temperament and looks, and does the necessary genetic testing, then I may very well buy one!!
 

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I don't see why not. When I read the Canadian standard it said that anything over 15 inches at the highest point of the shoulder.

The so-called moyen or klein poodles or pudels or whatever were that size. I would have bought a Standard Poodle if I could have found one that was 17 inches at the shoulder. According to the above, that is within the allowed size for a Standard Poodle. Not that I wanted to show my dog. I want one for obedience and agility, but I couldn't find one.

If someone can tell me where I could find a 17 inch standard poodle, any colour, from a reputable breeder that breeds for temperament and looks, and does the necessary genetic testing, then I may very well buy one!!
Im sorry I did not mean to say not allowed in standard. I was thinking of another size and not the kliens. Most still dont show because they wont win and like what cbrand said they cross breed the sizes and each size has their own type.

try here

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Oh - I would HATE to get a big dog !!!!! Coming from Europe I never saw such a huge standards as here LMAO - everything in the USA has to be "supersized" - from dinner plates to boobs to soft-drinks LMAO

Actually, one of the main questions I have when I inquire for a litter is the size of a Dam and the Sire !!!!

Cbrand - I know that Cabernet used to really pay attention to proportions in that respect and also Avion. Did not check for long time , but I know they preferred more compact dogs ...
 

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Oh - I would HATE to get a big dog !!!!! Coming from Europe I never saw such a huge standards as here LMAO - everything in the USA has to be "supersized" - from dinner plates to boobs to soft-drinks LMAO
You are too funny!!!! Actually, I guess it depends on which part of Europe you are coming from. I am a transplant from Russia (or should I say Ukraine) many, many years ago. Growing up I remember the biggest poodles ever!!! My friend's standard male was easily 29" or 30", and no it's not because I was a small child. I was 12 at the time and my full adult height of 5'5". I remember them being called "royals standards" at the time. I am not sure how big the spoos are currently in russian, but at the time, they were huge!!!!
 

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I used to think I'd like a big Standard, but really prefer no more than 24". I haven't measured Lucia lately, but she's a little shorter than Maddy (who's 24"), and more refined than she and Beau are, weighing in at about 33-35 lbs. (Maddy's 48 lbs., and Beau about 60 lbs. and 26"). Good thing too, because she thinks she's a lap dog! lol
 
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