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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I'm very much researching the Standard Poodle. I hope I'm not sticking my foot in my mouth by asking but I'll ask anyway. Some breeds have health issues associated with color. I was a Doberman handler for many years & learned to stay away from blues & phantoms & never never never get a pup in a white factored litter. Don't get me wrong not every one of the dilutes have health problems but they are more prone to skin problems. White Dobies are prone to a whole mess of issues that gives me shivers. In other breeds there seems to be fad colors that become popular for awhile.

The Poodle has a whole host of colors so I can't imagine why anyone who wanted a poodle couldn't find a color that suits them but I'd prefer to avoid the colors that don't belong in the breed (if there is such a thing). So that's what I'm looking for. I have a hard time telling apart blues & silvers in poodles.

Thanks for your time & for any advice you can offer. Maybe I need a Standard Poodles for dummies book, lol.
 

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I don't know if there is temperament variations between different colors of poodles as there is in labs, chocolate labs are known to be a bit more neurotic than yellow or black. So far as I understand, poodles can come in a variation of colors.

Black poodles should have fully black pigment, and when they are shaven you'll see that their entire hair is solid black, you shouldn't find variation in the pigment of color in the hair.

White poodles are perfectly normal in this breed, and are simply white. :D

Your cream poodle should always have a black nose and usually look well-creamy, they are going to be much lighter than an apricot. They are my favorite color of poodle too! Apricots would be darker in pigment than the creams, perhaps goldenish looking (please correct me if I'm wrong in describing these colors!!)

And of course Reds! There are a lot of stunning red poodle owners on this site, I believe that reds can come in a light red to a really dark red pigment.

Your blue poodle is going to look a bit like a muted black color, think extremely dark blue. Usually they grow into their coat as they get older. :) Silvers, so far as I have researched will start off looking black, but when you shave them you'll see silver on the end of their hair, they'll also grow into their silver coats.

Poodles with multiple colors are perfectly acceptable as well! I believe that AKC standards call for a solid coat, which is why you won't see as many breeders breeding multi-color poodles, but I could be wrong about that. :)

I'm sure that more of the experienced owners and breeders will be able to give you way more detailed info about colors, but I hope this helps!

Obviously there are plenty more colors of poodles but I figured this hit on some of the more popular colors :)
 

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I have never heard that there are any health issues tied to color in spoos, I have heard that there are personality traits associated with different colors. I have heard a few breeders say it.

pr
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sweetearlgrey, thank you.

Twyla, thank you that is a gorgeous dog. I'll be using that photo for reference.

Poodlerunner, would you be persuaded to dish on what you've heard about different colors & personality traits. That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for. This is true in Giant Schnauzers. My female is black & she's a born guardian. My understanding is the Salt/Peppers are slower to come into this, it happens but takes a little longer. With Dobermans I've rarely seen a fawn who had the kind of character to work security but I've seen a few exceptional ones with children. There's a slight difference in temperament that seems to come with that color whereas I've seen blues that were monsters for security work if you could only keep them healthy. And Labs, oh my. I know a lot of good yellow & blacks but I used to threaten to run away from home when the chocolates would come in. Then I discovered this is different between the American bred dogs & the English Labs. I trained with a pair of English Chocolate Labs & they were just awesome & calm. No peeling them off the ceiling three times a day. Like working with a different breed. So I'd love to hear anything like this you'd care to share.

Naira, I think I did read somewhere that merles were not normally in poodles. That was kind of prompted me to wonder about brindles & phantoms & partis.

Right now just from looking at pictures I favor the creams or very light apricots & I've seen some gorgeous phantoms online. I also love the silvers & blues. But feel I know so little I need to keep gathering info. So keep it coming & thank you very much for the help!
 

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I would also be interested in what info members have to offer on this subject, I have only heard & read differences in the sizes of poodles, not colours. Having had labs (yellow) I do agree with your assessment of them though.
 

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this is my Blue and Apricot phantom toy Flower she is almost 14

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you have to be careful with so called "rare" colors because some only breed them because they are greedy $$$. They aren't rare, they just are not what is usually bred for.
 

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This has been discussed before, and the concensus always is, you'll find the full gamut of temperaments -- from calm to crazy -- in any color, size (spoo, mini, toy), and in both sexes. I've also never heard of any physical problems that can be directly attributed to color. In the end, it all comes down to the breeding and temperament of the individual pup.
 

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My forever love Midnight was a black spoo. She had a toe removed due to cancer at age 6. The specialist we consulted (after the idiot vet tried to convince me it was a toe nail issue--without taking an xray that I was more than willing to pay for) said that toe cancers occurs more frequently in black spoos as opposed to other colors.

Beyond that, they are all amazing! The handsome boy in the picture is my darling laddie, Finn. Great apricot color that we love.
 

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Naira is correct. Merle does not occur in poodles. If you see one there is something else in the background. However, brindles do occur. Any dog with more than one color is not eligible to be shown in AKC conformation however (at least for standards) they are treated as a different variety & judged separately from solids in UKC.
 

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Merle is not a normal poodle color so that is the one color to run from. All of the other multi colors ie parti, phantom, sable, brindle have been around long enough to count as normal poodle colors with some being described or painted since the start of the breed.

The only color related problem I have heard of is that there is a line of Parti colors that will throw puppies that are dayblind. That condition can be already seen by the time the puppies go home at 8 to 12 weeks. So far there is no genetic test for the condition but responsible breeders are removing dogs that are found to be carrying the gene from their breeding program.

You will hear some generalizations like browns are the clowns of the breed but most don't really hold true. My brownie is high energy, strong prey drive but his brown sister is one of the most laid back blah dogs I have ever met....

In poodles since there is such a wide variance in energy levels, prey drives, etc the saying is pick the dog not the color. And for our breed it really is a matter of picking the size you want, then a breeder then picking a dog/puppy. Color is a very unimportant factor unless you plan to show and even then any solid color can work in all the show venues on the US.
 

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Poodles also legitimately come in brown. And in this breed, it's "brown", *not* chocolate :). If you see someone referring to his/her Poodles as chocolate, chances are it could be a BYBer talking, or the customer thereof.

Although I guess in decades past chocolate was used by some of the good Poodle people, only because in my copy of Book of the Poodle by Anna Katherine Nicholas (bought used from amazon-my copy used to belong to the Winnipeg Library :)), someone is quoted using the word, and for the life of me, I can't recall the name but it was someone important.Don't know if I could even find the quote again, because I came across it when thumbing through the book, not in a color description section or anything like that.

It struck me as strange, but maybe it just went out of fashion to use the term, or even possibly it got co-opted by BYBers, as they've tried to co-opt the hobby breeder term.
 

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Streetcar, I whole heartedly agree that the wrong colour terminology is a big red flag. I use to hate it (still do) when people and even some bad breeders refer to yellow labs as golden labs, there is no such breed!
 

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(...) Silvers, so far as I have researched will start off looking black, but when you shave them you'll see silver on the end of their hair, they'll also grow into their silver coats. (...)
Base, my dear. The new silver growth shows at the base of the hair.

Silver pups can be identified at birth: they have white hair readily visible between their paw pads. The first place to show silver is the face, the forehead, and the feet. Then it creeps up the legs and the forehead and from there the silvering, afaik, follows the same patterns mostly like a GSD puppy clearing to the saddle pattern. This post has a wonderful photo of a half-cleared clipped silver showing a darker hooded mantle remaining.

As for the Parti blindness thing, all white patterns may cause deafness if the pattern goes "over" the ear so that the inner ear has no pigment. Pigment and sensory cells are related in that way. I wouldn't be surprised if this was true for eyes also.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Spindledreams,

Oh for certain temperament will be a high priority for me. I have 2 very tiny Chihuahuas (I call them my mini mice dogs) & keeping them safe is priority #1 for us. I'm still figuring out if the Standard is the right breed for us but thus far it sounds promising. I do know the Standard would be the size of choice for me. At the beginning of this search I was looking for a rough coated Collie. But I quickly became very frustrated that many breeders are allowing puppy selection based on color alone. This makes me grumbly. The puppy has to be right for us, then if there are multiple puppies suitable... cool we can pick a favored color but that's not how it's presented.

Streetcar & Caddy,

I often wonder if some of this comes from people being taught wrong? When I was a kid I did some work for several poodle breeders. The older women all tended to refer to the browns as chocolates. And most of their dogs had names like: Hershey, Chip, Godiva, etc... I find the same in Dobermans. I was taught by an elder German man & he referred to the 'reds' (according to American vernacular) as Browns. He would correct you in a hurry if you called them red. He would say, "if they are truly red, their pigment is poor". I found over the years in dealing with several European folks still refer to them as browns, as have I most of my life unless I'm talking to an American breeder. Golden Lab and Yellow Retrievers. Always makes my eyes cross when people try talking about them.

Peccan,

I have to admit I do love the look of the blues & silvers. I like the look of the phantoms & brindles. I've always thought the creams are gorgeous especially if they have apricot on the ears or the really light apricots. Whites are stunning but I'd have a nightmare trying to keep the white beautiful out here in the desert. The sables are gorgeous. ((sigh)) see the problem color creates :adore: I'm enjoying myself looking at all the pictures on this site. But I appreciate even more the little tidbits you shared as to tell how to tell the silver right off. I like to know these things. FYI- Peccan, I LOVE the expression on your dog's face in the picture that is your avatar! What a happy dog!
 

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I had a groomer that told me all the parti poodles she groomed were Party poodles because they tended to be a bit more hyper. I know my parti girl Shandy was. But I now have a cream that is even more "bounce off the walls" than my parti.

My other dog is Cafe' Au Lait. She has more skin issues than the parti and cream had/has. I had wondered, since I am a ginger and am very well aware that the gene that causes that in humans causes a host of other health issues, if this was true for dogs too. I would assume anything that is a genetic anomaly could present problem (like albino-ism which I have never seen in a poodle and merle [which isn't full poodle].)

In the end, I think health issues and color is splinting hairs though. The key is: and I think this is the first time this has been mentioned anywhere on poodle forum - find a good breeder who health tests their dogs :) That will go a lot further than considering color, size, or sex.

End note - I had to Google albino poodle. I have now seen one.
 

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(...)Silver pups can be identified at birth: they have white hair readily visible between their paw pads. (...)
Oh and by white hair I mean obvious little patches of white, in the entirety of the skin between the big and little pads.
 
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