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Hmm - by using the term aggressive I seem to have set off a reaction. As I mentioned I have a Service Dog, and at some point may be looking for another Spoo pup to train as a replacement Service Dog.

In the Service Dog community protection and aggression are related. Can't have protective or aggressive SD's, it's a no-no. I started finding quotes from some well known Service Dog websites, however in a few minutes it turned out several pages long! I wasn't sure that would be welcome in this thread .....

However if folks want me to explain I will continue. Or if folks are interested I could start another thread on Service Dogs and Protection/Aggression.

If we are to trust SD's in public we simply cannot have to worry that they might be protective/aggressive. Not even snarling, growling, etc. So you can perhaps better understand where I am coming from.

Peace! If this is making you feel aggressive/protective of your position you can come visit us posed as a burglar. My SD will probably kiss you.
 

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Hmm - by using the term aggressive I seem to have set off a reaction. As I mentioned I have a Service Dog, and at some point may be looking for another Spoo pup to train as a replacement Service Dog.

In the Service Dog community protection and aggression are related. Can't have protective or aggressive SD's, it's a no-no. I started finding quotes from some well known Service Dog websites, however in a few minutes it turned out several pages long! I wasn't sure that would be welcome in this thread .....

However if folks want me to explain I will continue. Or if folks are interested I could start another thread on Service Dogs and Protection/Aggression.

If we are to trust SD's in public we simply cannot have to worry that they might be protective/aggressive. Not even snarling, growling, etc. So you can perhaps better understand where I am coming from.

Peace! If this is making you feel aggressive/protective of your position you can come visit us posed as a burglar. My SD will probably kiss you.
I actually know exactly where you are coming from, as I know more than one person who trains and raises Standard Poodle service dogs. Many of these Service Dogs come from a very well known working line of dogs, who excel in a variety of performance sports.

Standard poodles absolutely have a tendency to be protective of their families and homes. They are, by breed standard, aloof with strangers. Some are friendly with strangers. They should not be shy or aggressive. Being protective of their families doesn't stop them from being successful service dogs. And protective and aggressive are NOT the same thing. Protective isn't the same as being trained in protection work, which I do know is prohibited by some therapy dog organizations, and so I can understand why it would be undesirable for a service dog.

Just remember that a dog with protective instincts does not equal an aggressive dog and does not prevent it from being trainable as a service dog. You can absolutely have a dog who is naturally protective and train the dog as a service dog. Protective doesn't imply snarling or growling. To me, that is aggressive. By protective, I mean they have a tendency to be alert to and bark at certain things, if not trained to behave otherwise.
 

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Hmm - by using the term aggressive I seem to have set off a reaction. As I mentioned I have a Service Dog, and at some point may be looking for another Spoo pup to train as a replacement Service Dog.

In the Service Dog community protection and aggression are related. Can't have protective or aggressive SD's, it's a no-no. I started finding quotes from some well known Service Dog websites, however in a few minutes it turned out several pages long! I wasn't sure that would be welcome in this thread .....

However if folks want me to explain I will continue. Or if folks are interested I could start another thread on Service Dogs and Protection/Aggression.

If we are to trust SD's in public we simply cannot have to worry that they might be protective/aggressive. Not even snarling, growling, etc. So you can perhaps better understand where I am coming from.

Peace! If this is making you feel aggressive/protective of your position you can come visit us posed as a burglar. My SD will probably kiss you.
I absolutely agree that a service dog can't be protective or aggressive, and can't growl or bark at people. My main point was that if you eliminate all the breeders who have ever produced dogs that have shown any protective tendencies, you are going to eliminate a lot of breeders that may have great dogs. I love evaluating litters of puppies, and there's a lot of variation, even within the same litter. So you might have one really high drive, confident dog that would do well at bitework, a service dog candidate, and a bunch of lovely pets all in the same litter. Then there is the factor of how the dog is raised and trained. So that puppy that could do bitework might make a great SAR dog instead. SAR dogs can't be aggressive either - can't be sending a dog to find someone who is lost, potentially injured or hypothermic, and/or disoriented and then have that dog bite the person because they are behaving erratically.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
I agree, there is a difference between protective and aggressive. The Sieger bred and shown shutzhund dogs in Germany must pass several tests before they can even be allowed to trial in shutzhund work. And they must pass levels of shutzhund in order to be bred (females level one, males Master Level). If a dog shows the slightest hesitation, shyness, aggression, curl of the lip at a judge during inspection (hands on), it is banned from the ring, forever. The trainers/breeders recognize the characters of their dogs and would likely never present an unbalanced character to trial. The testing is done prior to level 1 Shutzund. So, if a dog is banned and can not be shown, it can not be bred..ever.

i do not believe the North American way is the same; which is why we see shepherds that may or may not be sturdy in temperament. The RCMP in Canada, I believe they import their working line shepherds from Europe and breed/train from that stock. I also believe, but I am not sure, that they do rigorous temperament testing also before the youngster goes into training and if at any point, it shows a level of aggression, it woudn't be put through the program. I do have one of their rejects.....so, I know the difference between "protective" and "aggressive".
 

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As I said in the Service Dog world protective and aggressive are very much related. They cannot be either.
Well, I don't really know what to tell you then, perhaps it's just not the right breed for you moving forward if you aren't comfortable working with a breed that can have a tendency to be protective of its home and family. But, I am positive that the protectiveness we're talking about here would not be any type of concern with training. The breed is NOT aggressive. Very trainable, friendly, biddable. While not the most popular service dog breed, there are plenty of wonderful Standard Poodle service dogs out there. But, I have seen a pretty consistent trend that, unless trained otherwise, they have a tendency to bark to protect their yard and home, and they tend to also be protective of their people. I don't mean snarling and growling. I mean staying close to them, worrying about them, sometimes not running up to greet someone until they've assessed the situation first. Poodles aren't Goldens, they aren't Labs. None of these tendencies should keep a capable service dog trainer from being able to successfully train a standard poodle to be a service dog. I would, of course, look for the puppy in a litter that shows the most ideal traits for the job. But..that's true for any working dog. I think that as a general rule, you should be prepared to train a poodle puppy not to bark in the yard, at the door, etc. But..I am pretty sure that is puppy raising 101 and one of the easier tasks on your plate when training a service dog.
 

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kontiki I'd like to better understand your position. I'm ignorant to service dogs beyond seeing eye and police/drug/bomb sniffers. It wasn't until I found this forum that I became aware that there are other applications.

Please indulge me with your specific issue that benefits from a service dog and specifically what it is that your dogs role plays.
 

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Discussion Starter #69
There is a law in Canada, or specifically in Ontario, that says "A Horse is a Horse is a Horse". What that means is, its a horse. When someone says, my horse is bomb proof, and then takes off bucking when something frightens it, the law, is a horse is a horse is a horse. Its a horse. It will get frightened. When someone asks, "does your horse bite", the answer should really be, "does it have teeth"? If it has teeth, it can bite.

Dogs, are natural protectors. I started this thread and I am well pleased with the overall general responses, that yes, the Standard Poodle is a dog, and yes, it will be protective, in the way that it will bark, and stand alongside, in body and in mind, to its family members. I am pleased to also read that a Standard Poodle can often be aloof with strangers.

Fenton, would hand his leash to anybody who would have him....but he is just a baby and I want him to be friendly.

2 weeks back, I was at a motorcycle shop and a man arrived with a white standard by his side. I rushed over to speak to him about his lovely dog, and without thinking, i reached for the dog. She was startled. She didn't appreciate my overly joyful, friendly response to her, she had been taken off guard, and she let me know it by her body reaction. She didn't curl her lip, but her eyes told me I had overstepped her boundaries.

Thank you all for your responses. I have learned alot and you have answered my inital questions. Hugs and Love
 
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