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Eric from Australia has trained Gracie to bite on command. He has police K-9 experience and lives in a remote area. I don't think a novice trainer should attempt that. We had to disclose our dog breed to our homeowners insurance and they didn't make any fuss or charge more with a Standard Poodle. That may not be the case with Dobermans, Rottweilers etc.
 

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Oooops! I just went back and reread the OP. I see we're talking abt a female Spoo. So I take back what I've said about them being too mild mannered to 'guard'. And this time I'm not even teasing. ;)

We've had discussions in here before about the problems of housing two females. How territorial they can be.
 

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Well I do agree that they are great for watching the house and yard - I did say that Sisko barks loudly even at harmless old men he knows from meeting on walks and seeing pass by every day. Though I'm not sure he barks if left home alone. Sisko woke us up growling one night to let us know a cougar was going down the walkway between our house and next door. Side note - We have quite a lot of deer in the neighborhood and a couple of summers past there was a young cougar living off the easy pickings ( kids always seem to prefer fast food) and he would lounge in the sun on peoples' driveways. He was euthanized as he was not going to be able to be relocated and then later that summer there was another in pretty much the same boat, hadn't learned to survive outside the city.

Kassie seems to need a dog who will play the part for her if needed when she is working with poor, disadvantaged, homeless, addicted and mentally ill people out in the community in their environment. On the other hand everybody seems to love a poodle and they draw people in. A fundamentally friendly happy dog might be a very good bridge to gaining trust with these people but with the reassurance that you've trained in a response to a command so that if things go pear-shaped your spoo will growl and show her teeth.


Fenton, my little oversized tpoo comes to work with me. At the moment, he blessedly lies quietly in a kennel under my desk. None of my clients know he is there and that is how I wish it. More and more, I feel that Fenton is in training to be "my" therapy dog because the work is hard. I'm not sure of how comfortable I will be if my clients know he is under my desk. They may crush him with their desperate need for love and acceptance

The SPoo is for my adventures and walks of life. I am accustomed to walking in mountains and isolated paths. I live amongst the Native American residents of a nearby reservation where our neighbors include Cougars and bears. My old shepherd doesn't want to walk with me anymore. And my youngest shepherd, has chosen my boyfriend as his soul mate and he is far too intense for a "walk in the park". So, I have Fenton. And I feel ridiculous walking him as my solo dog. Last year at this time, I had 3 shepherds heeling in synchronicity on my left side. Now, I have Fenton. He is lovely, but we need a large breed dog to walk alongside. I miss the company of a large dog and I miss the essence of the female dog companionship. But she needs to be brave, courageous and offer some level of protection, even if it is in moral support


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Eric from Australia has trained Gracie to bite on command. He has police K-9 experience and lives in a remote area. I don't think a novice trainer should attempt that. We had to disclose our dog breed to our homeowners insurance and they didn't make any fuss or charge more with a Standard Poodle. That may not be the case with Dobermans, Rottweilers etc.

Mfmst I do know some people who have had problems with their homeowner's insurance because of the dog breed(s) they keep. I feel fortunate to never have been asked at all about dogs in my home with respect to our insurance.

Training for bite work is something only to be undertaken if you have an experienced mentor IMO.
 
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Oooops! I just went back and reread the OP. I see we're talking abt a female Spoo. So I take back what I've said about them being too mild mannered to 'guard'. And this time I'm not even teasing. ;)



We've had discussions in here before about the problems of housing two females. How territorial they can be.


And I agree about 2 females. Though from my experiences, 2 males can be a horror story as well. I would say a male and female are a perfect match, but I lived through terrible fights between my female/male sibling Aussies. So going forward, I know my young male shepherd will not tolerate a large breed male dog around. He will love a female. My old female shepherd does not even have energy for Fenton, who is 5.5 months and 11 inches tall. I know, I can not bring into her living life, a standard poodle female pup. This is why I am doing my research now and beginning to touch base with breeders for a 2017 pup. With my luck these past 11 months, it is better for me to just get prepared for the inevitable passing of my awesome 12.5 year old female shepherd.

So what I will seek, is a protective, elegant, smaller in stature, female SPoo from a fantastic breeder. This thread is helping me in my research because I need the SPoo to offer some level of deterrents and I am hoping she can do that (whoever the little pup shall be)


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That's a daunting level of personal security to have had, or the appearance thereof:) PF member, Carly'smom, unleashed her two females on a trail when someone sketchy was following and he retreated, while her dogs stayed by her side. I think a Standard would be a fine hiking companion. Just ask Choco!
 

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Have you given any thought to a Dane? Their size alone makes them intimidating and they're generally a friendly and people-oriented breed, but they also have a pretty good guarding instinct. Hearing Finn growl when someone came in our yard at night was about enough to make me :poop: my pants! When creepy people have approached me when out with Asaah, she will watch them and move so she is between me and the person. They're not generally an issue with homeowner's insurance. They're also relatively low energy and mellow as adults, but not really as lazy as people say. Asaah is happy to chill on the couch with me or go hiking. Basically she's up for whatever I want to do, but if I don't have time for much, she's ok with that too.

The poodles I've met have been decent with guarding, though I'm not sure how they'd do with a bear. That's not really what they were bred for. If you really want a dog that will be somewhat protective, you probably want a dog that was bred for that. I love Dobermans, but they're on my insurance company's banned breed list :( I don't think you can go wrong with a spoo, but if you're really looking for a dog that can offer some protection, don't discount other breeds as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I am keenly interested in a SPoo. So I am trying to explore and get to know what a "typical" Spoo's guardianship is like. All my tpoos in the past would roar and let their voice be heard. It's only their tiny size that wouldn't deter a person or large carnivore


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We live at the foothills of the Rocky Mountains in Colorado. I have a friend who has always had two spoos, various ones, over the last 25 years. He and his family routinely hike and camp with their Spoos and have been alerted to a lot of wildlife by his dogs. Most of his have been females, except for one male.

Brian has said he will only have females as they stick closer to their humans and have protective, but not terribly agressive personalities. They have been alerted to bear, mountain lions, deer, elk, big horn sheep, raccoons and coyotes over the years. No one in his family will hike the mountain trails without their Spoos. He says they have more peace of mind with the dogs along. None have been attacked by the wildlife and none of his dogs went after the wildlife. They are just great hiking companions. His boys share sleeping bags with the dogs on overnight camp trips. Cozy. His spoos are always on the smallish side as that is what the family prefers.

I am considering a short first time for Poppy hike along the Cache La Poudre river with this weekend. She should have a blast!

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Protective spoo?

I was privileged to train working dogs for police work. All but one were GSDs. The thought is that GSDs have a better deterrent value but in my experience they are all wusses! They are trained to be aggressive on command and more importantly stand down from aggression on command. A fellow trainer brought her pet spoo in with her GSD working dog "in home" While growing and then early training working police dogs live with their handler in my environment. The two dogs were family and trained together. It was never intended that the spoo be used for police work. She was so adapted to the work and so good at it that she was given a chance to work operationally after training. "Call that a police dog Ho HO" says a felon "GRRRRR" Deep penetrating growl that no GSD could manage with their smaller chest cavity. "I guess that she means business" says the felon. Dog backs off without being ordered and grins. Felon "If I come quiet like, can I pat the dog" "RRRoWWW" says dog. Felon follows dog to van. Locked in back he talks to dog in front all the way to the station. Dog leads felon into charge Sargent. Sargent says "another arrest Poppy. You'll Make Sargent soon." This is one of many true tales of this spoo police dog. Felons would calm down and follow or be led by her. She seemed to have a calming effect on people that the GSDs did not. She served 5 years and was retired with honors. I never heard that she had to bite anyone. She was trained to protect herself when ordered but never had to. I'm Not sure who loved her the most, the crims or the officers. A spoo's growl is intimidating. Their snarl will chill blood. They have a deep bark that is not used in attack. Only for threat. If they are ordered to attack, they do so almost silently with just a low growl if anything.

I do not suggest any home owner or civilian train their dog of any breed to attack. Firstly it needs an experienced trainer and it is more important to teach retire than attack. Secondly if your dog should injure anyone, including an aggressor, in most jurisdictions the dog could be subject to an order for destruction.

IN conclusion a spoo is a good watch dog and will sound the alarm. Do not rely on any dog to protect you. You are larger than they are. You are the dominant entity. The dog will expect you to protect it. It may help you if you are attacked but don't count on it. If you are the dominant entity and you submit to the attacker most dogs will submit also. If you fight the dog will fight with you.

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I was privileged to train working dogs for police work. All but one were GSDs. The thought is that GSDs have a better deterrent value but in my experience they are all wusses! They are trained to be aggressive on command and more importantly stand down from aggression on command. A fellow trainer brought her pet spoo in with her GSD working dog "in home" While growing and then early training working police dogs live with their handler in my environment. The two dogs were family and trained together. It was never intended that the spoo be used for police work. She was so adapted to the work and so good at it that she was given a chance to work operationally after training. "Call that a police dog Ho HO" says a felon "GRRRRR" Deep penetrating growl that no GSD could manage with their smaller chest cavity. "I guess that she means business" says the felon. Dog backs off without being ordered and grins. Felon "If I come quiet like, can I pat the dog" "RRRoWWW" says dog. Felon follows dog to van. Locked in back he talks to dog in front all the way to the station. Dog leads felon into charge Sargent. Sargent says "another arrest Poppy. You'll Make Sargent soon." This is one of many true tales of this spoo police dog. Felons would calm down and follow or be led by her. She seemed to have a calming effect on people that the GSDs did not. She served 5 years and was retired with honors. I never heard that she had to bite anyone. She was trained to protect herself when ordered but never had to. I'm Not sure who loved her the most, the crims or the officers. A spoo's growl is intimidating. Their snarl will chill blood. They have a deep bark that is not used in attack. Only for threat. If they are ordered to attack, they do so almost silently with just a low growl if anything.

I do not suggest any home owner or civilian train their dog of any breed to attack. Firstly it needs an experienced trainer and it is more important to teach retire than attack. Secondly if your dog should injure anyone, including an aggressor, in most jurisdictions the dog could be subject to an order for destruction.

IN conclusion a spoo is a good watch dog and will sound the alarm. Do not rely on any dog to protect you. You are larger than they are. You are the dominant entity. The dog will expect you to protect it. It may help you if you are attacked but don't count on it. If you are the dominant entity and you submit to the attacker most dogs will submit also. If you fight the dog will fight with you.

Eric


I love this post. Thank you Eric. I agree, having 2 shepherds trained in Germany for master level Shutzhund, I was always cautious that I had powerful ammunition at my side. I don't need that kind of protection anymore. At the time, I was a single mom with a 4 year old girl, out in the backwoods on isolated lands with 12 horses. We have moved now to a small community and my daughter is 13. We still have the large predators but it really was the threat of persons meaning harm that I needed the protection from. Having gone though the initial purchase of these dogs, training, the expense of and the responsibility of, I don't wish it anymore. Just a good sounding voice and a larger size and that will be awesome. I also like the idea of no shedding. I also look forward to the peace I can experience without the heavily armed weaponry of trained guard dogs. I am aware also that if one reveals their dog is trained in guard, the liability is increased to the highest and should the dog bite, right or wrong, the owner of dog is responsible and the dog will be put down.

My shepherds were steadfast, loyal and impeccable. I miss my majestic boy and ache for the inevitable passing of my female. I am blessed to have had them in my life. I won't even try to replace them. They were a pair from heavens above.

Photos attached are of my great male we named "Matscho", RIP, Sept. 2015


matschosieger2.jpg 1pascha.jpg IMG_1203.JPG


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Matscho was very handsome, what a wonderful companion he must have been.
 
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Matscho was very handsome, what a wonderful companion he must have been.


Matscho was a "once in a lifetime dream". He ended up the price of a car. I had noticed he had some autism stuff going on. As a 2.5 year old, Matscho finished 50th in the top ring at the World Championships in Germany out of 400 dogs. Soon after, I realized he wasn't well and had some issues going on that he could pass on to his offspring, I neutered him. I spayed the female and they became my guardians, my companions and my blessings. When Matscho was 5, he had immune deficiency disorder. He was very ill for a couple of years. As I sit and ponder, I do not know how I could have done what I did without them. They were a prayer, a gift. I dread the day his soul mate Gitta leaves me. So, I am preparing ahead of time.


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Kassie - your story is very inspiring - thank you for sharing.

You are also so brave in considering two puppies, back to back!!! :). My Sammy has extra energy today, and I'm exhausted. Kudos to you - although I secretly dream of the day I can have another poodle in this family ;p. I guess you can never have just one poodle ;)

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Kassie - your story is very inspiring - thank you for sharing.

You are also so brave in considering two puppies, back to back!!! :). My Sammy has extra energy today, and I'm exhausted. Kudos to you - although I secretly dream of the day I can have another poodle in this family ;p. I guess you can never have just one poodle ;)

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I've had 7 dogs at a time. I'm used to it. And tons of horses. Fenton will be raised up nicely by next spring. He will be 1 year old and I keep him tired. Hikes and adventures. He may not be a tiny toy, but he is still pint size. I am used to a tiny dog amongst the lot of bigger dogs. So, it's ok. I know I will miss the shadowing companionship of a large female dog. I already do because Gitta is with me, but not. She is tired, doesn't go for walks and needs senior care. I need a plan, I need to prepare. So a SPoo pup won't enter my life until sometime next year. I'll by then, hopefully have selected my breeder of choice and be approved by that same breeder as a potential owner. When I got Fenton it was in panic. I didn't expect my tpoo to pass away. And when he did, I was still crying over the loss of Matscho. I just about lost my mind. Gitta, she is my "heart" dog. I can never thank her for the support she gave me. I am planning ahead, because when she leaves me, I know I will feel ripped apart.


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There were a lot of fantastic responses and I enjoyed reading them. I have an opinion and I'm sure it will not be popular. Get a gun an learn how to use it. I would never endorse using the dog you love to be the ultimate go between you and an oppression. Your dogs job is to alert and buy time, your job is to neutralize. Look at law enforcement that utilize dogs and,, the dog is not intended to be sacrificial.

Lots of potentially nasty critters here and having spent half a lifetime in the out doors of Maine I have to say I fully trust none of them, even deer. Wild animals aren't always wired right and disease or whatever can make things pretty weird. Sure the raccoon on the nature channel is cute using its hands like a human but that thing chewing on your chickens or scrapping with your dog is something they don't show.

Don't like guns, get pepper spray, a stun gun, get all three. Never underestimate the primary predator, a child of god.
 

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There were a lot of fantastic responses and I enjoyed reading them. I have an opinion and I'm sure it will not be popular. Get a gun an learn how to use it. I would never endorse using the dog you love to be the ultimate go between you and an oppression. Your dogs job is to alert and buy time, your job is to neutralize. Look at law enforcement that utilize dogs and,, the dog is not intended to be sacrificial.



Lots of potentially nasty critters here and having spent half a lifetime in the out doors of Maine I have to say I fully trust none of them, even deer. Wild animals aren't always wired right and disease or whatever can make things pretty weird. Sure the raccoon on the nature channel is cute using its hands like a human but that thing chewing on your chickens or scrapping with your dog is something they don't show.



Don't like guns, get pepper spray, a stun gun, get all three. Never underestimate the primary predator, a child of god.


I know what you say. In canada, we can not have guns. And I do have pepper spray. That being said, I would never sacrifice an animal. I am highly spiritual, to the dismay of many. I feel the universal "oneness" and feel that we are all spirit having a "human experience". This may offend folks, but I do not value human life above animal life; not really (children are the exception ). Because I am connected strongly in the spiritual realm, I see things and feel things differently.

And I understand human nature. I believe we as humans are faulty. My favorite quote, "when someone shows you who they are the FIRST time, believe them" (Oprah)


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I've had 7 dogs at a time. I'm used to it. And tons of horses. Fenton will be raised up nicely by next spring. He will be 1 year old and I keep him tired. Hikes and adventures. He may not be a tiny toy, but he is still pint size. I am used to a tiny dog amongst the lot of bigger dogs. So, it's ok. I know I will miss the shadowing companionship of a large female dog. I already do because Gitta is with me, but not. She is tired, doesn't go for walks and needs senior care. I need a plan, I need to prepare. So a SPoo pup won't enter my life until sometime next year. I'll by then, hopefully have selected my breeder of choice and be approved by that same breeder as a potential owner. When I got Fenton it was in panic. I didn't expect my tpoo to pass away. And when he did, I was still crying over the loss of Matscho. I just about lost my mind. Gitta, she is my "heart" dog. I can never thank her for the support she gave me. I am planning ahead, because when she leaves me, I know I will feel ripped apart.


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Sounds very reasonable - I'm sad to hear that Gitta is slowing down quite a bit. It totally makes sense to start prepping for a puppy in 2017, now. I hope you will reach a decision on the breed and have lots of time to research the breeder of your choice. :). Although I'll have to cast a ballot for a spoo ;). Keep us in loop!!
 

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I've had 7 dogs at a time. I'm used to it. And tons of horses. Fenton will be raised up nicely by next spring. He will be 1 year old and I keep him tired. Hikes and adventures. He may not be a tiny toy, but he is still pint size. I am used to a tiny dog amongst the lot of bigger dogs. So, it's ok. I know I will miss the shadowing companionship of a large female dog. I already do because Gitta is with me, but not. She is tired, doesn't go for walks and needs senior care. I need a plan, I need to prepare. So a SPoo pup won't enter my life until sometime next year. I'll by then, hopefully have selected my breeder of choice and be approved by that same breeder as a potential owner. When I got Fenton it was in panic. I didn't expect my tpoo to pass away. And when he did, I was still crying over the loss of Matscho. I just about lost my mind. Gitta, she is my "heart" dog. I can never thank her for the support she gave me. I am planning ahead, because when she leaves me, I know I will feel ripped apart.


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If you get your Spoo before Gitta leaves she may help in its training?
Eric.
 
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Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)
If you get your Spoo before Gitta leaves she may help in its training?
Eric.


She doesn't want to. She trained the younger shepherd. He is 4 and he is a different type of shepherd, being an RCMP bred dog, (rejected because he is too laid back, uh huh). He is so intense, she put everything she had into him. He was very hard work for her. But train him, she sure did. With Fenton, she doesn't even want him around. She gets up and leaves if he comes close. She is tired. She used to (several months back) drool over the Maine Coon kitty, but now, she watches him and that's about what she is up for. I think she misses Matscho so very much. Attached is the last photo of Gitta and Matscho, taken about 1 week before he passed. The other, taken a few months back.

Gitta is 12.5 years. She had an abdominal cancer surgery 2 years ago. She was only expected to make it through Christmas. We forfeited as a family, Christmas presents so that we could afford Gitta's surgery. Gitta made it through 2 Christmases and 2 birthdays . While we were watching over her, Matscho passed suddenly and unexpectedly in one day followed by Mister Hobbs the tpoo on Easter Sunday with no warning 6 months later. Since I was so side swiped and couldn't prepare for the loss of my beloveds pets, bless their souls, I am laying out plans and preparations for this goddess. . . IMG_7852.JPG IMG_0467.JPG


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