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Discussion Starter #1
Anybody have any opinions? I am contacting a few breeders right now, and came across this kennel listed on the Poodle Club of Canada website, but I can't find mention of them on this website, so looking for "expert opinions" out there...

Also, how many breeders should I contact...so far I'm contacting anyone within a reasonable driving distance of Greater Vancouver (I think I've sent four emails out).

Mel

http://www.splendentpoodles.ca/SplendentStandardPoodles/Welcome.html
 

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I'm no expert, but based on a quick look around the website I like what I see. Looks like they are small scale breeders who put a lot of effort into their pups. If I were looking for a standard pup, this is just the type of breeder (at first glance at least) that I would be interested in!
 

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Oh and if you don't hear back from some breeders, I recommend calling them. I have found some breeders are good at returning phone calls while others are better at returning emails. :)
 

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Oh and if you don't hear back from some breeders, I recommend calling them. I have found some breeders are good at returning phone calls while others are better at returning emails. :)

Good to know...I figured I'd wait until next week, after the holidays, then follow up with a phone call. BTW, just noticed your dog's name - Ziggy - I love it! In fact, just last night, I was telling my hubby I liked the names Lola for a girl, and Ziggy for a boy! And here I thought I was being so original, lol! :)

Mel
 

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Good to know...I figured I'd wait until next week, after the holidays, then follow up with a phone call. BTW, just noticed your dog's name - Ziggy - I love it! In fact, just last night, I was telling my hubby I liked the names Lola for a girl, and Ziggy for a boy! And here I thought I was being so original, lol! :)
Our Ziggy's actually a girl. And the Shih Tzu I puppy sat over Christmas is a Lola! So while they're maybe not SO original, I think they're both great names!
 

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When I was looking for our poodle princess, I visited literally DOZENS of breeder websites, emailed at least 1/2 dozen and had phone contacts with a few more. The more research you do, the better armed you'll be with information and knowledge. I've never heard of Splendent. The only Canadian breeder I contacted was Arreau (and coincidentally, we became forever friends and I acquired one of her babies!!) all the other ones I researched were in the US.

It was easy to see the sketchy breeders just by looking at their websites. A lot of them had puppies raised in kennels away from the house - I didn't like that and did not pursue those breeders. Also if there seemed to be large volumes of puppies, I moved on...

Have fun with your research and best wishes in finding just what you're looking for!!
 

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Well, I am really impressed and I am not impressed easily !!!

They are doing all and beyond that is a sign of a good breeder !!!!!! I would feel very confident buying from them :)

I wish you the best of luck with your new puppy :):):)
 

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I think they look great!
I really liked the poodle party idea they had going too!
They have focussed on showing and obedience too, and seem to have all the relevant health testing.
 

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Other than the fact she hasn't been breeding long, I really like what I saw. Lovely, lovely dogs. I like the fact that she grew up with Spoos (as I did) and chose to breed based on her love of the breed, and not because they may be popular or an easy sell.

One note about the Poodle party. I think it is a fantastic idea, if you are not being charged for it in the purchase price of the puppy. Pendragon Poodles here in Ontario has an annual Poodle party and usually has 100 past buyers show up. They arrive in Limos, and are fed all day, given t-shirts and gifts and a huge deal is made about the whole thing. She charges about $2,500 for her pups from (what I can see on the web site) untested, untitled parents, so a good time is had by all at the expense of the buyers.IMO.When there are other breeders in Ontario charging about $1,500 for their pups, $1,000 extra seems a lot to have the privilege of attending an annual party on their premises. So make sure the price for a puppy from this breeder is in sync with other breeders in your area, and that a premium isnt being tacked on for the party.

Her Spoos are reminiscent of the gorgeous black Spoos I grew up with.
 

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Ok... I guess I get to be the counter point. Really, I'm not all that doom and gloom, it is just that I like to look at the whole picture.

Her dogs are very, very heavily linebred. I'm not one to get super hung up on COIs, but when I see number like Paris' 54.8% COI it gets my attention. I would think it would be very important to find out as much as possible about the following Poodles in the pedigree (call Teannas):

Teannas Sparkling Tia
Wycliffe Ultra High

Looking at health stats on Poodle Health Registry and based on what I know anecdotally, I would think your major health concerns would be Toe Cancer, Bloat and Heart (MVR... this showed up more than once in the line).

She seems to breed to dogs in her general area and I would question this because she just seems to just be doing more linebreeding (Breeze COI is 42% and Dior is 53%). I would want to know why she has not branched out and bred to dogs from other lines (ask and see what her answer is).

On the positive side, you sure are going to get an inky black Poodle and you are going to get a dog that is likely a carbon copy of its dam. If you LOVE the dam, you will probably like her puppy. If you don't connect with the dam, I would look elsewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #14

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Can you explain this further? I thought the COI should be as low as possible? I'm on a very steep learning curve here, so pardon my ignorance! I'm not really sure how to read that information. :eek:hwell:

Thanks,

Mel
yes, COI, if you worry about it, should be as low as possible. 41.2 is high. The reason it's "not a bad thing" is because some breeders don't believe COI matters, or needs to be taken into account at all. And also, COI is simply another tool, and a high one isn't always something to rule anyone out by itself, but it could be the straw that broke the camels back too.
 

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Can you explain this further? I thought the COI should be as low as possible? I'm on a very steep learning curve here, so pardon my ignorance! I'm not really sure how to read that information. :eek:hwell:

Thanks,

Mel
The COI issue apparently depends on which side of the fence you are on. I take it VERY seriously, as the higher the COI the more the likelyhood of a lot of linebreeding/inbreeding, which in my eyes heightens the possibilities of things like Addisions disease. I try to breed a bitch with a COI of less than 10% to a male with a COI of less than 10% with the hope of producing puppies with a COI of less than 6%. The Canine Diversity Projest has quite a lengthly read on their site about ther importance of low COI's, and the probability that less than 10% buys a puppy an additional 4 years of life. To me, that means a lot. This is a very controversial issue, and I agree to disagree with some other breeders, but nobody will ever change my mind on the importance of a low COI, particularly since, through the Poodle Health registry, I have been able to look at the COI's of the Poodles I grew up with, and now understand why most of them did not live past ten years of age. But again, it depends which side of the fence you are on.
 

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As a fellow pup buyer, COI is one thing I look at and consider among many others. One of the breedings I am considering getting a pup from is very line/inbred. I'm not sure what the COI exactly is, but I'm planning to call the breeder tonight to discuss the breeding and find out a little more about why she chose that stud in particular. She flew from Toronto to California to use him, so it can't have just been because he was convenient! For me it's more about understanding a breeder's reasoning and thought process for undertaking any breeding, then deciding if it's something I understand and agree with. A low versus high COI on its own does not really have a great bearing on my decision. :)

Of course, I say this coming from a breed (PWDs) that all come from a very small gene pool, so inbreeding is common and the only way the breed is still around! So that might somewhat influence my thinking.
 

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Of course the issue could be that this breeder has NOT had problems with Addisons or SA and they don't want to introduce those problems by breeding out.

When you talk to the breeder, ask about longevity. How old were the dogs in the pedigree before they died. Linebreeding on a Poodle who lived to be 15 yrs old and who was pretty healthy until the day he/she died is not necessarily a bad thing.

Ask what the major health concerns in the line are. See what she says.
 

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Can you explain this further? I thought the COI should be as low as possible? I'm on a very steep learning curve here, so pardon my ignorance! I'm not really sure how to read that information. :eek:hwell:

Thanks,

Mel
The Poodle Pedigree Database has even calculated it higher then the PHR's 41.2%;
http://www.poodlepedigree.com/coi.asp?ID=343493
Genetic information for Splendent Diamonds By Dior
10-generation COI 53.62%
12-generation COI 63.67%

Top 5 ancestors contributing to COI, in order of influence:

AM/CAN CH Wycliffe Michael 26.16% (Sired 27 Litters)
AM CH Wycliffe Genevieve 9.24%
AM/CAN CH Wycliffe Kenneth 8.43%
AM/CAN CH Wycliffe Thomas 6.59%
AM/CAN CH Wycliffe Fitzherbert 6.55%
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I spoke to the owner more about her planned litter. She was very forthcoming about everything, and I feel very comfortable that she is a breeder who cares and is in it for the right reasons. I will meet Paris and some of her offspring from her last litter with Jinx soon.

I'm still unsure about the COI thing, and if I should be concerned. She told me the COI is 41%. These are the two she is breeding:


Paris:

http://www.poodlepedigree.com/pedigree.asp?ID=115223

Jinx:

http://www.poodlepedigree.com/pedigree.asp?ID=341937


What she said about the health info: everything is available online to view, no VW, no Addisons, no Cushings, Paris' line is clear of toe cancer (SCC), no bloat, no epiliepsy. Three generations ago one puppy was born with one kidney, but that has not appeared again. One dog (sorry, forget where in the lineage) had heart problems. I will ask her about longevity, didn't think to ask that.

She is breeding Paris and Jinx again because of the great results she had last time. She knows Jinx very well, and Nights Echo. She said she prefers to breed what she knows.

So, any feedback would be appreciated. She is the only breeder of six I've emailed that has gotten back to me. Any other questions I should ask? I have no perspective on the health data. To me, sounds pretty good, but hey all the dogs I've ever had growing up were rescue mutts, so this is all pretty new and intriguing, really.

Thanks again, appreciate the words of wisdom and experience!

Mel
 
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