Poodle Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,307 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
2 year old black spoo male, neutered. I groom him every 3/4 weeks, I post pictures of him here with various modifications to his continental trim. Very happy go lucky /goofy and a bit overly hyper.

I don't know what he eats now, but I believe in the past it was Science diet. If I had to make an educated guess I would guess he has been put on a perscription version of Science diet, she said today he was "back on the special food again"

Issue one;
cronic yeasty ears - most likely food allergy of some sort. Vet disagrees (???) and so far no allergy testing has been done. (Mom is looking for another vet as I understand it who will do the testing) mom cleans ears several times a week with cleaner bought at vet clinic. The dog is not on medication. This has been going on for at least a year now. I never clean his ears, I just pluck usualy if they need it. Normaly the cleaning has already been taken care of, if anything I wipe out with a gauze pad and make sure no water gets down there during the bath. Cleaned them today with her cleaner b/c she hadn't had time. It took 10 cotton swabs per ear... Gross. Not s super strong smell, you can't smell this dog from a distance. The yeast smell is slight even up close and evenif you smell right down into the ear, they are often red though.

Issue Two, this is a reccent one started the begining of October.
Cronic loose stool, sometimes progresses to bloody. vet has yet to determine the cause? Apparently one of her two cats also came down with the problem the same day he did. I haven't asked if the cat got better but the dog hasn't. The second cat is so far as I know fine. He has never cleared up entirely but had several more severe bouts of this issue over the past two months. In his two years of life he has proven himself to have a sensative stomach and has suffer once or twice from stress related digestive issues. He now gets no treats of any kind, only his daily ration of dog food, whic like I said I am not sure what it is at the moment. She says he also is getting plain yogurt twice a day and a special food(i don't know what exactly) to help ease his latest bout. He is also only being allowed to drink his home water, no water from anywhere else even though we live in the same town. So no water while he's here for grooming.

Issue three;
This poodle sheds....?? Since he boards all day with me when he is groomed and he is such a complicated type groom I tend not to book other dogs to come in on his days. So he gets to come in and hang out in the house with me, he is exceptionaly good buddies with my four dogs and has been for over a year (none of them by the way are having any digestive issues). I have noticed that he does seem to lose more hair during brushing than other poodles I've groomed, leaves hair in the tub too. He also usualy leave a little clump or two on the carpet in my living room. Until today I thought the clumps being left on my carpet were tiny bits of hair that had been scissored and stuck to his feet or something. I did start to wonder about the amont of hair he left in the brush and tub on his last visit but thats because my new tub is white and it's more obvious than it was before. Sometimes I notice a tiny bit of dandruff. Today she asked me about him shedding, said he leaves clumps of hair all over her house all the time. I was surprised to hear that. For a dog that loses the amount of hair he seems to I would think his coat would begin to look sparse, not at all. It's really thick and really soft, which is why it matts like crazy if she lets brushing get away from her. You cant just grab hold of a bit of hair and pull and get hair out of him. It usualy comes out in a brush or just appears on the carpet.

So the staff at her vet clinic reconize her voice on the phone now, she has him or her cats in frequently enough to be probably one of their best clients :)
I don't know for sure if this is her first dog, but I do know it is her first poodle. Supposedly he is "fully health tested" she really made an effort to do her research before getting him. She waited for him for a couple of years as I understand it. I don't know where she got him from though she has told me once or twice, it isn't a big name kennel or anything and the breeder doesn't show at all.

With a combo of problems like this what do you make of this dog? Nutritional issues perhpas? Thats was my first thought, which I never share with her. Is it common to run across poodles that shed like he does? He isn't a mix unless it's pretty far back in the pedigree. Poodles are all this breeder has. Are there genetic issues that would manifest themsevels in any of these ways or a combonation of them? My second though was stress in general. She keeps a reallly tight leash on him so to speak and he doesn't get to "be a dog" as often as he should. She was shuddering them morning when she dropped him off because my two spoos were out in the yard and the grass was wet from the morning dew. 'ugh, they're going to be all wet, I can't let him get wet, I can't stand it!!" Thats just one of many examples I could give you. what she wants seems to be that nice calm poodle that just hangs out and walks nicely on a lead and is friendly with strangers but never jumps up or gets overly excited. She does a ton of training with him, I think she's to regimented with him, he has to have permission to drink water at home.... You get the idea.

Mostly I'm just curious now. Where better to ask than here where somebody may have some grand insight into the problem or at the very least a different approch she can take to dealing with her first two issues if nothing else. I feel bad for both of them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,947 Posts
thats awful about his ears.

But I'm really curious about the shedding...because Elphie sheds...I just thought she pulled it out herself but today I was looking at my green carpet in my room and it was covered in little brown hairs
I brush her daily, and I never miss a day

I actually just put the shedding ((of Elphie)) up to bad breeding.
but like Wonderpups I wouldn't mind some expert opinions on that :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,645 Posts
What does SA present as? I know they can have hair loss but is it noticable in the actual skin? It sounds so much like a grain allgery to me but I'm not a vet I don't know. The ear thing might be the plucking. I know as a groomer you don't like that answer but my vet told me not to pluck Harry's ears and since I've left them alone, no yeast smell at all. He has ears full of hair but if they are clean then I'd say they are fine.

For the yeast, I think the acidophilus is good to balance a dog out and apple cidear vinegar added to the drinking water is good. I think the ACV is 1 tsp to the water daily.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,307 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Kpoo :) I don't really sit on one side or the other of the pluck or not to pluck debate though I lean towards pluck just based on my past experiences with unplucked ears. Some are fine unlplucked I agree and don't argue, most of the ones I've seen are not. I guess it depends on the dog and the situation ? *shrugs*

I can tell you in this one case 100% for sure that it is NOT the plucking causing the probelm. We tested that already and O.M.G. It made the problem soooo much worse. We tried it in after one of his rare wow his ears are finialy all better moments... mistake. :( They got bad bad bad and then with all the hair She couldnt get down into the ears to clean, the meds they put him on couldn't get down there all that well either, we had no choice but to go back to plucking. He really gets thick thick bushy hair in his ears. I don't pluck every time, every other is the average, so once in a 6-ish week period. So far as I know he does not swim, unless the water bowl counts.

random thought; I wonder it is has to do even a tiny bit with where one lives? You think dryer climates have an easier time with ear infections than more humid ones? Like how the clinic I worked in saw more ear infections in the summer months, even among dogs who didn't swim or anything, than they did in the winter. Wow its waaayyyy to late for me to be trying to form intelligent thoughts.

Oh and one more thing about this dog, he is not regular flea and tick preventative of any type. I have never once in the almost two years of grooming him seen so much as one tiny hint of a flea on him... ever. He gets a capstar if he goes to the dog park and thats about it. She said she may put a topical on him once or twice but only if they had a problem, which I don't think they did. I asked her about it over the summer since I was asking all of my clients who were flea free what they were doing so I could pass the information on to my flea infested clients :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,645 Posts
I think you are right it's all an individual dog thing with the plucking or not plucking. For mine if you overpluck he has problems but I do think some plucking helps to get that ear wash down in there for a good cleansing.

Flea bites, hmm, well good theory. Would you see the flea dirt or are you thinking he's getting bitten and they are jumping off?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,307 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
For the yeast, I think the acidophilus is good to balance a dog out and apple cidear vinegar added to the drinking water is good. I think the ACV is 1 tsp to the water daily.
Is there anything that ACV isn't good for? :) My two get it in their food when I feel the need (they won't touch water with it in there). I bet she won't try it though, I don't think she'd try anything that didn't come right from her vets mouth, which isnt' a really bad way to be honestly but sometimes you miss out...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,307 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
No, I don't think he gets bitten, I've never even seen him scratch(except to rub his ears) and he's stayed overnight at my house several times. I just think he rarely if ever has fleas and isn't on anything to prevent them 99% of the time. Just one more tid bit of information on him that I find surprising. I can honestly say he's one of the few dogs I've never seen any type of real skin irritation on at all. They are one of few here in the area that don't seem to have issues in their household with fleas. I'm one of those people too for most of the year so sometimes it is difficult for me to relate to clients of mine who have tried just everything and are still having flea problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,645 Posts
Some humans are like that with their children. I mean honestly sometimes you just have to make some decisions on your own without your doctor.

No ACV is the best for everything even dusting! I have a spray bottle mixed with ACV and water for the bird cage and I've used it plenty of times to dust the table that the bird gets all dusty. Someone told me mist the dog before he goes outside and it will keep fleas off of him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
646 Posts
have you read the ingrediants in that food. JUNK Change is food to something like Taste of the wild and I bet his problems will clear up immidiatly.
Honestly what will it hurt Yes add some aciphidious pills to help in the change the loose poops will clear up. The ears and other problems shortly after.

She will definatly save her money as well as that stuff is so expencive and they eat so much.
Remind her to feed a little less then the bag suggests and move up slowly if he needs more.
Casey gets the runs if I feed the bag recommended amount as do a lot of dogs apparently.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,064 Posts
I agree that I think its all has to do with the food. Science diet is trash!

Poor food = poor coat
digestive issues
cronic ear infections

I get irritated when I see those foods on display when I go to the vet. They are not good quality foods and lots of pet owners dont realize it...ecspecially when there vet is recommending it. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,307 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Glad to know it isn't just me who jumped right to nutrition. I don't dare suggest a food switch. I did it once right after I got Saleen but she wsn't receptive to the idea. :( I wish there was a more holistic type vet in the area that was close. Since they ARE doctors they could suggest a food switch to her and do all the explaining and she would be a lot more likely to listen. Where as she won't listen to me because the regualr vet is who put him on good ol science diet to begin with.

Hehe Secreto this is your favorite poodle in the continetal we're talking about. The lady who was in the habit of bashing my dogs from time to time. Though she seems to have stopped that now :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
478 Posts
Honestly, sometimes you just have to shake your head with vets and food. I went with my dad this week to take their dog in and he told them he had the dog on Diamond Naturals Lamb and rice - not the highest ranked food, but it does have some strong good points. The vet instantly turned her nose up at the word "Diamond" - now I agree that the regular food is crap, but the Naturals scores okay on the food tests I've been told to look at. Then the vet tells my dad that a "good" food would be - Science Diet, Royal Canin, or Purina One...You've GOT to be kidding me. So I said - what about Taste of the Wild...she'd never heard of it. :doh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Agree that it's most likely 100% food. Check out DogFoodAnalysis.com. It's a site that's actually INDEPENDENT of any dog food manufacturer (no biased opinions) and they rate dog foods from 1-6 stars. You click "reviews" at the top of the page and you can search for a specific brand or browse by quality.
At the grooming salon I work for I give this website out daily. Clients are generally pleased and I would say a good 80% will switch foods once we discuss it. I can tell you when a dog walks through the door if he eats crap food. It makes such a huge difference.
I also worked at three different animal hospitals over 7 years. I worked with ONE vet who had a special interest in nutrition. Because she did the research (on her own, since most vet schools barely cover nutrition) she HATED Hill's (prescription & science diet), among other major brands sold through vets.. they are all crap..

I would bring it up with the client. Let her know that chronic ear infections, dull/dry coat, excessive shedding, loose stools, etc are all common signs of improper diet and possibly food allergies. Tell her to avoid a diet with corn & wheat, which are two of the most common allergens in dogs, and try a food more meat-based rather than grain based. The website will list several high quality foods. Of course, with this dog there's a possibility of additional allergies, and some dogs are allergic to specific protein sources. If a high quality diet doesn't solve the problem, she could try a limited ingredient diet (but not a crap one like Hill's Z/D or Royal Canin IVD). Wellness Simple Solutions are the same idea (limited ingredient with several different protein sources to choose from) but are a much higher quality food than the prescription diets.

Make sure that if she agrees to try a diet change that she switches the dog over gradually by mixing in the new food slowly to avoid GI upset, and she keeps the dog on the new diet for at least 8 weeks to allow for a better idea of whether or not it's helping.

Lastly, I would tell her to try this before allergy testing. Honestly... she can save several hundred dollars by trying this first. Allergy testing is expensive and often you find that they're allergic to tons of things that you have no control over. In my opinion and experience, it's rarely useful, especially if you haven't tried some basic controls before running the tests.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
after everything everyone else suggested, Im trying to come up with new ideas...

You said she cleans his ears a few times a week?
really- isn't that too much?

Its like when you are a teenager and the doctor says don't wash your face more than 2X a day, because your skin will try to overcompensate and produce excessive amounts of oils... could this be happening with the ears?

just a thought
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
after everything everyone else suggested, Im trying to come up with new ideas...

You said she cleans his ears a few times a week?
really- isn't that too much?

Its like when you are a teenager and the doctor says don't wash your face more than 2X a day, because your skin will try to overcompensate and produce excessive amounts of oils... could this be happening with the ears?

just a thought
Over-cleaning healthy ears can lead to problems, but when you get chronic problems with yeast, you clean often (usually while treating with a medication or using a cleaner specific for yeast control) until the infection starts to resolve, then you gradually start cleaning less. In this case, the yeast never seems to completely resolve, but the frequent cleaning is probably keeping it from becoming a really serious problem. With ears, there is always an underlying problem. Most commonly it's allergy related and in most cases that allergy is from food. In some cases it's more than one thing, but other causes or contributing factors are conformation: large, heavy ears (like cocker spaniels have), narrowing of the ear canal (either due to chronic ear infections causing thickening, papillomas, or just genetics), or excessive hair in the ears. Obviously plucking is specific to the dog and there are pros and cons. Unless there is a lot of thick hair in the ear blocking air flow, I wouldn't pluck if the dog has an active ear infection. Plucking causes mild inflammation which can harbor bacteria in an already compromised ear.

With the combination of problems, I think you need to find the one factor that can explain all symptoms. It's less likely that the dog has 3 separate issues and most often the simplest answer is the correct answer.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top