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Discussion Starter #81
Sisko is learning how to heel and he is doing so well!! I have taken Sisko's training back to basics like: sit, down, recall, and leash manners. He seems to be happier and is responding better. I only had to tell him once to get out of the kitchen today, and he is listening better to my mom and my youngest brother. He will lay down from a distance now too.

He seems more chill now. Like he seems almost tired? Maybe he feels more relaxed now?

Is there anything else I can teach Sisko right now? Or is it too soon?
 

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Stick with the basics until he is 100% rock solid with rapid and correct responses no matter how crazy the distractions are. Remember Javelin is 5 years old and just in the last few months has he been off leash for heeling. His initial heel training spent at least 6 months just going a few steps in a straight line and against a wall or gate. I still don't love his about turns, but they are improving. The improvement is from breaking the turn into parts. I look into and turn my left foot into the turn and freeze. If he doesn't look away he gets a reward. I do 2/3rds of the turn and if he hasn't looked away at all he gets a reward and so on. We still do that frequently.

Remember dogs need correct repetitions and no incorrect rehearsals several thousands of repetitions to consider that the dog actually understands the behavior. Most of us are not that patient (me included many days). I am going to take a private training this morning. I always tell Deb what I want to work on (usually three things) but sometimes we may only do one of those things because she has seen something that needs work that is hard to do alone or is really out of whack. Virtually always working on that one thing has something to do with other things. Like today we may end up with lots of pivot and about turn training and that will not only help with gloves but also articles and the turn and sit at go out along with heeling. Patience is the name of the game.
 

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We are back from our training session. We worked on scent discrimination and Javelin did nicely. We have fixed a couple of issues like running into the pile so fast that he pushes the articles all over the place and he is figuring out he has to come directly back and briskly which improves over either briskly wherever he felt like trotting off to or returning to me but at the pace of a funeral procession. But that still needs work. We skipped pivots and gloves and did a little heeling getting much better about turns and started teaching a stand at halt for later utility signals. We spent more time than anything on having Javvy wait at go out for jumping orders. Well what the heck he knows how to wait for a recall, he knows how to wait for orders to a broad jump, he knows how to wait in place for a stand for exam and for the open command discrimination but since he loves jumping the high and bar so much he doesn't know how to wait. As is the case with most dogs generalizing behaviors that are similar to other contexts. He has worked on all of these exercises for years with me working hard on one or two things at a time going on to other things and then going back to the first couple of items a few weeks later. We never have to go back to square one and we always improve fater each time we have to go back to something. It requires tons of patience. Remember too that if you don't have awesome foundations you can't go very far. As an example I never insisted on heads up heeling with Lily and that bit us hard when we entered utility. This is why I insist on heads up for all things with Javelin, not just heads up heeling, but heads up for informal movement between exercises, heads up set ups, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #86
My mom's BF is here, but Sisko has been doing so well🎉!!! We got Zuke's duck flavored mini treats. Sisko absolutely LOVES them. We were playing and training, and having a lot of fun, and he did bite me and drew blood while trying to take a treat, so I stopped everything and went away in another room, and I'm sure he understood after that happening that that was not okay, and he has been so gentle about taking treats now.

We're still proofing the basics and he is responding a lot quicker, and he is learning "touch" and eye contact. He will look at me more now and it's easier to get his attention now🎉.
 

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Your attitude is great. You've come a long way with your patience! I'm still not the best at that, so I know it's not easy. Way to go. :)

It does worry me a little bit that he drew blood. Was it an actual puncture? Does that happen often?

Since Peggy's adult teeth have grown in, she doesn't break skin unless it's an accidental scratch during play. If she started regressing in that regard, I'd be on the phone, setting up a private consultation with our trainer. Bite inhibition isn't something I'd feel comfortable tackling alone.

Of course, if Sisko thought it was the treat he was biting, that's not really the same thing. Maybe just stick to larger pieces while you work on that.
 

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Discussion Starter #88
Your attitude is great. You've come a long way with your patience! I'm still not the best at that, so I know it's not easy. Way to go. :)

It does worry me a little bit that he drew blood. Was it an actual puncture? Does that happen often?

Since Peggy's adult teeth have grown in, she doesn't break skin unless it's an accidental scratch during play. If she started regressing in that regard, I'd be on the phone, setting up a private consultation with our trainer. Bite inhibition isn't something I'd feel comfortable tackling alone.

Of course, if Sisko thought it was the treat he was biting, that's not really the same thing. Maybe just stick to larger pieces while you work on that.
Thank you, very much, PtP😀!! Oh, yeah, I'm not going to lie, it can be SO hard at times. I just really got my patience back, and he is doing so well. If you ever want I might be able to help out with Peggy if you ever want me to.

It worries me too. That was the first time that he did that. Yeah, it was a small puncture, it was the first time that that happened.

Ohhhhhh, yeah. Sisko still needs to learn bite inhibition. It was one of the things that I was trying to teach him when he was a puppy. One of the things that have changed is that I will stop playing with Sisko if he comes to close to me while playing with his rope toy or any other things.
 

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Discussion Starter #89
Sisko's training is growing in leaps and bounds!!!!! He is so much better at eye contact, he is listening a heck of a lot better!!!!! I got my patience back and we are having a lot of fun!!! If he gets up when I haven't released him all I have to say is no and he will lay back down. We are both very happy😀🎉🎉🎉😀!!! The things that I really want to be able to do is take him places without being totally out of control, and leash pulling.
 

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I don't think an accident of breaking skin where he thought he was taking a treat and was over exuberant in trying to get it is a failure of bite inhibition. It is over excitement and responding by being boring is exactly the right thing to do. I have really only ever encountered one adult dog that really lacked bite inhibition. It was a pug pit mix, a little dog (ugly as anything in my book, but not really relevant). I went for a consult visit to work with the family adult son, his mom/owner and her elderly frail mom. It was chilly so I had on a long sleeve shirt and then a heavy sweatshirt over that. This dog grabbed my arm through all those layers and really hurt me, left dental impressions in the form of bruises. That dog meant to bite hard and to get me out of the way. That behavior is very unlikely to ever be trained away since it is the needle teeth of puppies hurting each other that really makes a pup understand why giving inhibited bites is better than tearing open somebody else's flesh. If you can't take it, you better not dish it! I told the owner I thought the dog was a serious dnager to her mother and that I thought she should rehome the dog. Aside from the biting (which included being an ankle biter) the dog was a trip and fall hazard. I rather doubt that Sisko is an uninhibited biter. Don't freak out on that, but don't put up with it either. If I feel teeth on my flesh that dog ends up on a time out down stay until I see offer of a couple of calming signals.
 

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Discussion Starter #91
I don't think an accident of breaking skin where he thought he was taking a treat and was over exuberant in trying to get it is a failure of bite inhibition. It is over excitement and responding by being boring is exactly the right thing to do. I have really only ever encountered one adult dog that really lacked bite inhibition. It was a pug pit mix, a little dog (ugly as anything in my book, but not really relevant). I went for a consult visit to work with the family adult son, his mom/owner and her elderly frail mom. It was chilly so I had on a long sleeve shirt and then a heavy sweatshirt over that. This dog grabbed my arm through all those layers and really hurt me, left dental impressions in the form of bruises. That dog meant to bite hard and to get me out of the way. That behavior is very unlikely to ever be trained away since it is the needle teeth of puppies hurting each other that really makes a pup understand why giving inhibited bites is better than tearing open somebody else's flesh. If you can't take it, you better not dish it! I told the owner I thought the dog was a serious dnager to her mother and that I thought she should rehome the dog. Aside from the biting (which included being an ankle biter) the dog was a trip and fall hazard. I rather doubt that Sisko is an uninhibited biter. Don't freak out on that, but don't put up with it either. If I feel teeth on my flesh that dog ends up on a time out down stay until I see offer of a couple of calming signals.
Ewwwwww! A Pug Pit mix?? did it look like a French Mastiff? Oh my God I'm so sorry that it bit you. What happened to the dog? I would have never allowed that dog to become an ankle biter. Okay, that's good. I'm so happy to hear that. Okay, I won't. One thing that I started doing is Sisko isn't allowed to bite the rope toy if it is near me. Okay.
 

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Ewwwwww! A Pug Pit mix?? did it look like a French Mastiff? Oh my God I'm so sorry that it bit you. What happened to the dog? I would have never allowed that dog to become an ankle biter. Okay, that's good. I'm so happy to hear that. Okay, I won't. One thing that I started doing is Sisko isn't allowed to bite the rope toy if it is near me. Okay.
It was just an ugly combination of pug and pit but on the size scale of a pug. I suspect it was a biter its whole life and that is a very entrenched and difficult behavior to extinguish if not learned as a puppy from other puppies. I think it never should have been put into rescue as adoptable by anyone, just by very experienced handlers.

I am actually not sure what happened with the dog since a person in the family dies after the consult and she never called to follow up. The dog was a rescue and the owner was exceedingly proud to have rescued this nasty little dog. I doubt she liked my suggestion that the dog wasn't appropriate for the household. I hope she tried to rehome it, but don't think it was a good candidate since it had broken skin and really truly bit hard with intention to injure when it chomped down on people's ankles, hands, forearms and such. There are some dogs that just aren't right in the head, inappropriate for 99+% of handlers and that should be euthanized IMO. This dog was one of those types.
 
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Discussion Starter #93
It was just an ugly combination of pug and pit but on the size scale of a pug. I suspect it was a biter its whole life and that is a very entrenched and difficult behavior to extinguish if not learned as a puppy from other puppies. I think it never should have been put into rescue as adoptable by anyone, just by very experienced handlers.

I am actually not sure what happened with the dog since a person in the family dies after the consult and she never called to follow up. The dog was a rescue and the owner was exceedingly proud to have rescued this nasty little dog. I doubt she liked my suggestion that the dog wasn't appropriate for the household. I hope she tried to rehome it, but don't think it was a good candidate since it had broken skin and really truly bit hard with intention to injure when it chomped down on people's ankles, hands, forearms and such. There are some dogs that just aren't right in the head, inappropriate for 99+% of handlers and that should be euthanized IMO. This dog was one of those types.
I 100% agree with you about dogs like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #94
When Sisko and I go outside and I throw away his poop bag, I have him lay down and stay about 8 ft away from me when I throw it away. He has been doing great at this!! So the next thing I did with him while at a distance from him was up, down, and come here. He did great with those! And was more focused on me than he had ever been! On his second potty we did it again and we did the same exact thing right outside our apartment and on the way back from throwing away his poop, I had him sit half way from our apartment and walk with me back to our apartment without me holding his leash.
 

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Great job with Sisko. So glad to hear this went well. Keep up the good work. He's a smart boy and will get where he needs to go if you are consistent and patient. This made me very happy. Nicely done.
 

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Discussion Starter #98
Great job with Sisko. So glad to hear this went well. Keep up the good work. He's a smart boy and will get where he needs to go if you are consistent and patient. This made me very happy. Nicely done.
Thank you, so much!! I'm very happy that this made you happy😁
 

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Discussion Starter #99
We did the same training from yesterday and when we were at the dog station I had Sisko sit instead of lay down and there was a dude delivering food to someone and Sisko stayed right there!! I let Sisko drag his leash 2 apartments away from ours and he did great!!! I'M SO PROUD OF HIM! The only thing Sisko did not like was the metal part of the leash dragging behind him. I'm thinking about taking that part off, but I'm not sure yet, because of just in case I need to grab his leash.
 
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