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I consider it a mark of a good breeder. How do you feel? Im maybe a snob (ok so i am!), but when i see an unshaved new puppy face i automaticlly assume that the breeder wasnt that good. I think all poodle puppies should have this started young, and a breeder who doesnt shave doesnt want to take the time to do it. Therefore, what else arnt they doing, what other handling lessons has the puppy not had, etc?
 

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I agree w/ you on this. Puppies need the experience/training. If not they could end w/ serious injury later on. It seems like most of the injuries that are mentioned on the groomer forum are around the face. If the puppybuyer likes a fluffy face, they can let it grow after they bring the puppy home. If someone is truly interested in being a responsible dog owner, I think they would understand that it's not just about looks.
 

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I agree as well...even though I prefer Flip without a shaved face.
Unfortunately his bone structure is so delicate he just looks like a pretty girl when his face is done...but in the future when I get another poodle, I will definitely keep him or her in a more traditional poodle clip.

Breeders should definitely be taking the time to get the pups used to that kind of handling/grooming, and they just look so cute with the FFT done. :)
 

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I don't know that it's so bad... personally, I LOVED Desmond's Muppet face. He hadn't had his face shaved before we got him at 11 weeks and was totally adorable. His breeder didn't shave them, but did bathe them and get them used to grooming tools. Desmond has never had a problem having his face or feet shaved, even when we first started. They seemed to have exposed him to a lot of stuff, as he didn't even react to the dryer or bath. I don't think it's just his personality to be so accepting, as he was a total wuss at other things. For example, ceiling fans sent him hiding under a table for a few hours the first time he saw one, and he's still terrified of maintenance men hahah.

Rambling on... Anyway, I think it's definitely nice if a breeder does start grooming the puppy earlier, but just because they don't shave them doesn't mean the dogs haven't been worked with. :) (though shaving is definitely a plus and a good way to assure the dogs have been introduced to grooming, some people (like myself) really just love fuzzy puppy faces)
 

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OMG especially those little toys look so adorable with those puppy faces. I just don't like the nasty food that can get in the hair, but they are so cute! A puppy seems to age by months when you shave its little face. Suddenly they are dignified poodles.
 

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It is imperative to shave faces around the 8 week mark to correctly evaluate skull structure, stop and length of face. A good breeder always does this so that she knows what she's got. A bad breeder doesn't care and doesn't know what to look for anyway. :eek:hwell:
 

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Well I don't like poodle's with fuzzy faces specially not Spoos.
So I would like my puppy to learn not to be afraid of the clipper at a young age so I don't have to struggle with him every two weeks for the rest of his live.

I don't think they look like a true poodle with unshaved faces :S
 

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Ditto CBrand! How do you have a clue as to what they really look like without the face clipped!
Anytime I have had a puppy in for grooming who had never had any trimming always came from questionable "breeders".
 

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I think the total puppy cut is a must for me, especially with toys it's the only way to get a good look at what your getting. You need to be able to see the true size of the nose and feet, etc. When I saw Jazzy (whom I got from my aunt) I was not instantly in love with her, but once she had her puppy cut well I was in love. I couldn't believe such a jewel was hidden under all that hair.
 

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I too think it is important to keep a face clean. I actually talked to a breeder and everything sounded good until he sent a pic of the pup to me. I wasn't impressed and never responded back. Here is the pic that was sent. It wasn't an overgrown face but I could barely see the eyes.
 

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My opinion may just be colored by my boys' breeder but I have to say that an unshaved puppy face=uncaring breeder. I agree that a breeder and potential puppy owner can not know what they have if they can't see the face. To me it shows that the breeder doesn't care about hygene (unless they constantly clean chins and eyes) or the quality of the dogs they are breeding. A toy poodle pup does look darling with a fuzzy face, but I think its even more important in a toy to be able to check bite etc. It may just be me though.

When I went to look at my boys before I brought them home I couldn't tell at all, even by feel, that they have totally different face structures. Jupiter has a very fine face, while Mercury's is wider, and that Jupiter's nose is a bit too pointy. It was even difficult to judge their ear carriage. They looked almost identical with their fuzzy faces.
 

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I think it all depends on what you want when you buy a puppy. I just wanted a pet and I really don't care if his head and nose are perfect. They are to me, of course, but they would be even if he only had one eye in the middle of his little fuzzy head. I don't like the look of a shaved face on a small poodle, especially a puppy. On the other hand, I do agree that standard poodles don't look good with hairy faces.

As for the part about the breeder not caring about the dog, when my vet examined Teddy for the first time, she said the breeder had taken very good care of him and he was extremely healthy and had a great temperament. I couldn't ask for a better pet.

I bought a calendar with pictures of toy and mini poodles and was pleasantly surprised to see several little guys with hairy faces. I don't think I will ever completely shave Teddy's face because I like it the way it is.
 

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I absolutely agree with you. You have to consider the breed. This breed will need grooming for it's entire life so it should be started young to help the future groomer and the owner get the dog used to it. It needs to be continued as the puppy gets older and the experiences need to be positive. If you can't do that as a breeder, you need to learn or take them to the groomers for their experience.
 

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I also think it is imperative that a breeder shave their pups fft to do an evaluation on them as well as introduce them to being groomed as they are going to spend their lifetime doing just that.

Taffy came to me completely groomed and shaved and as soon as I walked in the door of the breeder's home, I was able to 'see' what i was getting. I had asked specifically for a pup that I could show and breed and I was very happy with what i saw. They took obvious pride in their puppies and took proper care of them.

On the other hand, when we went to get Billy, none of the pups were shaved. It was impossible to make a choice without being able to evaluate the structure of the faces/heads. We asked the breeder to allow us to shave the faces of the pups we were interested in and she allowed us to do that. This is NOT the way to get a puppy though! I am very happy with Billy and Dianne is quite happy with Grace and Chantel but we vowed that we would never have pups who were not introduced to proper grooming for our buyers.

The breeder's reason for not shaving her pups was because most of her buyers don't want their puppy's faces shaved; they like them natural. To each their own!

If a someone purchases a pup from us and wants a more natural look to their dog, it will be up to them to do that later. I just don't see how you can present a puppy and point out its qualities if you can't see them.
 

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I would never purchase a puppy from a breeder who does not take time to groom puppies and I want to second what Cbrand said - how the h*** you can see the structure of the head without shaving the face - not to mention the eye setting and the expression ???:doh:
 

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I too think it is important to keep a face clean. I actually talked to a breeder and everything sounded good until he sent a pic of the pup to me. I wasn't impressed and never responded back. Here is the pic that was sent. It wasn't an overgrown face but I could barely see the eyes.
Ummmm...words escape me! Glad you passed that one up.
 

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Stumbled on this very old thread and probably no one will even look at this but... Um... the pic that Buck showed looks to me like just a blurry picture of a squinting puppy with a perfectly good shaved face. The only thing that the sender of the pic is at fault for is for not taking and sending a better picture of the pup.
 

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Grooming makes a difference!
Here is little Lucy (mini) that I had as a rescure this spring- the first pic when I picked her up, I wasn't sure what was under that hair!
Carole
 

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I love a shaved face, I do Suri's often. I think the picture is more the turn off. Most breeders serious about selling would not send a picture like this, UNLESS she was in a hurry not home and did it from their phone or something but if this was the only offer of a picture it might have turned me off too. :)
 
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