[taxtell]

I am pretty sure that Flip is suffering from it, and it's my fault. I take him everywhere with me, and now he doesn't want to be alone, ever.
I tried doing things like going to lunch at work and leaving him in the crate, leaving him in the car at the store, etc.

Now he just freaks out and cries/whines/carries on every time he is alone.

I get so much different advice it is confusing. I have been told:

1) Let him have a tantrum in the crate until he gives up.
2) Don't EVER leave him in the crate.
3) Put your other dog in the crate with him.
4) Leave him in a room instead (I don't trust him)
5) Keep conditioning him with short leaving times until he is comfortable (not working)
6) Leave music/talk radio on
7) Try aromatherapy
8) DAP diffuser (didn't work)
9) Meds

The foster owner left him in the crate for hours and hours, she said...the entire time she was at work.

 

[cbrand]

You should get the video Crate Games.

 

[KPoos]

I'm not sure what I'd do in his case since he has had a traumatic experience but don't most people that work crate their dogs most of the day?

 

[taxtell]

I forgot about Crate Games! Thanks cbrand, I'll order it.

I also forgot to add that I tried kongs stuffed with just about everything under the sun, to no avail. He won't touch them until we are home again. I also have a doggie music cd.

Someone suggested that I put Jack in the crate with Flip, but I am afraid Flip will accidentally injure the little guy. Jack is only 10lbs.

 

[taxtell]

I'm not sure what I'd do in his case since he has had a traumatic experience but don't most people that work crate their dogs most of the day?

Yeah, it was my fault.
He was fine with it when the foster owner did it, and I probably reverse trained him. Dumb move on my part, I just enjoy taking him to work so much.

I've had other crated dogs, we did it with Jack until he was an adult and he was/is fine.
He even hangs out in Flip's crate sometimes.

 

[markfsanderson]

Seperation Anxiety . . .

A couple of questions:

1. What is your attitude towards crate training and why? Do you think its a good idea? Your attitude can/will be transmitted to your dog. If its negative, find out why!
2. Dogs should be trained to use the crate just like you train them to use the bathroom outside or sit on command. Have you started a formal training?

I hope that you have a positive attitude towards crating! It took a while for my wife to warm up. She was of the opinion that it was cruel and unnecessary. Once she started figuring out that

1. It's their home away from home - while traveling this is their place they can go and feel comfortable. Because they are trained to love their crate, travel with them is so much easier.
2. While they are at the house, its the place they go when they're tired, don't want to play - whatever. It's their bedroom!
3. It's instinctual and natural - all dogs have a 'denning' instinct - they naturally like enclosed 'caves'.

How do I train a dog to accept the crate? It's actually very simple:

1. Put the pup in the crate with a small treat, close the crate door and praise them - make a REALLY big deal out of it!
2. Yup, they are going to whine - but they will stop for a second or two. When they do, immediately - and I mean NOW open the crate let them walk out feed them treats and praise them. This means that you must be there in the room with them reading, doing whatever (but ignoring them while whining) and once they stop - open and praise!
3. Do #1 and #2 above randomly throughout the day. Do it at least 6 or 10 times/day. Do NOT talk to them while they are in the crate and whining - do not pay attention to negative behaviors - any attention is better than none at all (in their mind)!
4. The most important rule is that - NEVER EVER under any circumstance put your pup in the crate for punishment, or an accident or scolding whatever . . . never put the dog in the crate unless you are singing a positive happy tune!
5. Make sure s/he has plenty to chew on in the crate at all times.
6. Under no circumstance should a puppy be left in a crate for more than 1hr/month (up to 8 or 9 months) except at night. Example 1: I have a 4 month old puppy - no more than 4 hours should s/he be in the crate continuously. Example 2: I have a 2 year old dog, s/he should never be in the crate more than 8 or 9 hours straight.

Everyone will have their own technique/philosophy/whatever on crate training and this is mine. It was worked for me . . . Oh - and the first crate? I recommend a wire 'briefcase' style for the simple reason that you can travel with it easy and they can see out everywhere from within it.

Good Luck - and happy training!

Mark,Jamie and Poodle Gangsters!

 

[Marian]

Taxtell, I have started enclosing Teddy and the cat in a puppy-proof room when I have to leave him at home. I used to leave him in his crate, but I felt bad that the cat had the run of the house and Teddy could see him through the bars, but couldn't play with him. And sometimes the cat would go sleep on my bed, leaving poor Teddy all alone in his crate in the living room. I did leave the TV on for him--on Animal Planet, naturally.

I'm going to look into the Crate Games video too. Thanks for that, cbrand!

 

[taxtell]

I've used crate training before, it's not something I dislike by any means.

Flip is not a baby puppy, he is about 7-8 months old (rescue). This is a new behavior for him, and I'm sure it's because I take him around everywhere.

I'm going to try the Crate Games thing, and I moved the other dog and his bed in the room with the crate. Hopefully that will help.

I am of a mind to just let Flip 'Cry it out' since he was fine with it before we adopted him.

I am taking him home over lunch (from work) and leaving him in the crate until I get home. (3 hours). We'll see how it goes.

 

[Olie]

I've used crate training before, it's not something I dislike by any means.

Flip is not a baby puppy, he is about 7-8 months old (rescue). This is a new behavior for him, and I'm sure it's because I take him around everywhere.

I'm going to try the Crate Games thing, and I moved the other dog and his bed in the room with the crate. Hopefully that will help.

I am of a mind to just let Flip 'Cry it out' since he was fine with it before we adopted him.

I am taking him home over lunch (from work) and leaving him in the crate until I get home. (3 hours). We'll see how it goes.

Honestly I would let him go through the wimpers.........he will remember

 

[puppylove]

I was never a believer in crates until I started fostering. Fosters are required to be crate trained before adoption so I did it. I just got a call from one of my foster's Mom. She also had never used a crate and questioned whether it would still be necessary for little Ivan. I told her it wasn't but that he truly liked it. So she bought one.

He sleeps in it when he's not sleeping on her bed and best of all she felt that her Thanksgiving celebration went much smoother because he was out of the way and happy during the big meal. Another convert!

I wouldn't worry so much about him being confined while the others are not. That's how it is at my house and since everyone mostly sleeps when left alone, no one feels abused. Sometimes we do project our feelings when the dogs are perfectly OK. I think letting him "cry it out" would probably work if you stick to it.

 

[taxtell]

I am worried about him now.

He does stupid things like remove the tray from the crate (how he manages this, I have no idea)...try to bite through the bars, howl, cry, etc.

I hope he just exhausts himself.

 

[taxtell]

cbrand, is this the right DVD?

http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=dta287

 

[taxtell]

Well, today we left Flip home twice, alone, without a crate or anything, just shut a few doors.

He was fine! No accident, no chewing, nothing.

So I'm guessing he might just hate being confined in the crate?

I don't mind giving him free run, our Cavalier King Charles Spaniel has free run when we're gone.

I hope this is an end to the drama.

 

[bigpoodleperson]

Personally, im a Big meanie!! Even though he does well in your house alone, i would still make sure my dog was comfortably crate trained. What if you have to board him, what if he is sick and has to stay in a small kennel at work (like on IV's), what if you have guests or workers in your house that you need him shut up for, what if you travel with him, etc.
I wouldnt stop there, i would crate him until he was comfortable with it, and then he can have off and ON "out" time while you are gone. Im a big fan of NOT giving into temper-tantrums. Let him work it out as long as he is not injuring himself.

Personally, i like plastic crates for this. There are less points of escape possibility, no crate pans to remove or chew, easily cleaned (and no wall splatter if they have an accident), nervous dogs like the den feel (and i know dogs who will pull whatever blanket that is covering a wire crate in and chew it), etc.

 

[taxtell]

Good point, I may have to get a plastic vari-kennel.

The odd thing is, he is fine with the crate when we are home.
I put him in it all the time when I'm cleaning or don't want him underfoot.
He sleeps in the crate too, he just hates being in it when we're not home. I also put him in a big kennel run at work all the time if I go out for lunch, or if I know that an aggressive or contagious dog is coming in.

I think it is his guard instinct, he likes to pace/patrol the house, checking the windows, etc. He is an appropriate barker too, he only barks if strange/loose dogs or people are in or near our yard.

Maybe he just hates the wire crate?

 

[Marian]

I ordered Crate Games today. I can't wait to watch it!

 

[desertreef]

Good point, I may have to get a plastic vari-kennel.

I prefer them in a hard plastic crate too. Some have been injured in those black wire crates... especially when they are trying frantically to get out.

My male can easily bang around in one and will cause it to collapse.
First time he stayed over night with a friend, I brought one (as I thought she'd like the look of it better in her house) and they put him in it and went out for a couple of hours. Came home to find him on their sofa. No injury but still, what if?