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I'm searching for a Poodle, preferably a Standard or a Mini and I am partial to black. I'd also prefer a dog not spayed or neutered. I'm not a breeder, I'm a dog groomer who believes in a more natural approach to living with my dogs. I just don't understand spaying or neutering before the dog is allowed to develop naturally into adulthood, if it needs to be done at all.
 

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If you're against spaying and neutering then why not looking for one with dewclaws and a tail too? Because that's obviously a useless surgery too if in your opinion..
 

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Hi Stella. I do know about petfinder.com and searching there also. I came across a posting for Miyu listed on Coastal Poodle Rescue through Petfinder.com. I'm sending them an e-mail now. Thanks, Chris.
 

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Are you getting a Spoo to learn how to groom them in the various clips? I know a lot of groomers do that. You might also check your local Poodle Club of America (PCA) to see if there is a breeder where you could co-own one of their show dogs. I'm sure they might be very excited to have their dog with someone who could groom them and give them special care and a loving home.

In turn, you would be asked to have the dog available for shows or perhaps even sire a litter for the breeder. A contract would be written to let you both know the expectations of the other. People on here could give you more information about it than I can.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I admit, Poodles are one of my favorite dogs to groom. i do have a showing Standard Poodle that I groom and enjoy the scissor work. Even though grooming a Continental clip takes some time, it goes by quickly, because I do enjoy my time during the groom. Standard Poodle is a breed I have had interest in for a few years. I think they are wonderful dogs with a great personality.

Two years ago we acquired a Bouvier des Flandres, our third. Our second Bouvier was recently euthanized, loosing a battle with cancer and having difficulties breathing. Now I'm searching for a Black Standard, although a mini would be fine also.

I've been searching the Poodle rescues, Poodle Clubs, Shelters, and even Craigslist. I have thought about co-ownership, but not sure about that venue yet.

Thanks for the response... and thanks for being nice.
 

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I'm searching for a Poodle, preferably a Standard or a Mini and I am partial to black. I'd also prefer a dog not spayed or neutered. I'm not a breeder, I'm a dog groomer who believes in a more natural approach to living with my dogs. I just don't understand spaying or neutering before the dog is allowed to develop naturally into adulthood, if it needs to be done at all.
I understand and respect your beliefs, but a lot of responsible pet owners on this board believe that it is best for the dog to be sterilized (after sexual maturity is fine, but not so long after that the risk of cancer is increased) Many responsible breeders also are very careful to sell their pups to people who will not, either on purpose or accidentally, breed a dog of their lines without their permission or knowledge (especially if that breeding might be accidentally to a breed other than a standard poodle, or to a standard poodle without complete health testing, etc...)

You might be able to find an irresponsible breeder who won't care that you keep one of their progeny unaltered, but if the breeder is irresponsible they may not have tested or checked pedigrees of their breeding stock either...

My experiences come from managing a humane society for 4 years and holding hundreds of animals in my arms while they were euthanized by our vet because people breed their pets indiscriminately and there are just simply too many pets on the planet and not nearly enough good homes. Spay/Neuter can save lives - I truly believe that... and after living exclusively with altered animals (dogs, cats, rabbits and horses - only the birds weren't sterilized, but they don't have live births anyway so birth control is a snap!) that spayed and neutered companion animals are every bit as happy - and probably happier since they don't have the reproductive urges that intact animals have - as those left unaltered.

I have heard that if you keep a male dog intact, it is cruel to not allow him to breed at least twice a year - they can become aggressive, neurotic, etc., if their urge to mate is not satisfied at least occasionally - it makes sense to me then, since you claim to NOT be a breeder; that you'd want to neuter your new dog and give him the calmest, happiest life possible. You say you believe in a "natural approach", but just remember that keeping an intact dog and not allowing it to breed is just as "unnatural" as sterilization surgery - and IMO, much harder on the animal since surgery will take away that instinct/urge and they won't miss the breeding part of it.

When I managed the shelter, I had one potential adoptor ask if he could get a vasectomy on a dog he was considering adopting because he didn't believe in the full castration. I consulted with the vet who had agreed to do the surgery for him and he explained that a vasectomy would reduce potential pregnancy if the dog bred a female, but that it isn't guaranteed to prevent it - since our shelter had zero tolerance for our orphans going on to create more homeless animals, I couldn't allow him to adopt that particular dog and have that particular surgery - but perhaps you could find a shelter or a breeder that would allow it? The dog keeps all of his "parts" but is less likely to father pups...

Good luck with whatever you decide - but I'm hoping you'll keep an open mind to possibly owning an altered pet!

Thanks!
 

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not to mention...the blood is nasty
28 days of hell I went threw because of Elphaba not being spayed before her first heat ((I thought it was only supposed to be 21 days :doh: ))
we used pullups and little boy undies over top of it to control the blood, I think my mom would have died if a single drop had gotten on our sofa o.o

I think theres a genuine concern with the age and growth of a dog and when it should be spayed/neutered but to never do it I feel thats careless
but thats just my opinion on the matter
 

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I have heard that if you keep a male dog intact, it is cruel to not allow him to breed at least twice a year - they can become aggressive, neurotic, etc., if their urge to mate is not satisfied at least occasionally - it makes sense to me then, since you claim to NOT be a breeder; that you'd want to neuter your new dog and give him the calmest, happiest life possible. You say you believe in a "natural approach", but just remember that keeping an intact dog and not allowing it to breed is just as "unnatural" as sterilization surgery - and IMO, much harder on the animal since surgery will take away that instinct/urge and they won't miss the breeding part of it.
This was on a Cesar episode. A lab, who was trained beautifully in game retrieving, was growing increasingly food aggressive in his kennel. It was really odd to see a lab that aggressive, Cesar said that intact males release.. energy? I forgot the exact word, but by either confrontation or mating, when they don't get either of these then their frustration can build up and turn to aggression to other things, hence extreme food aggression.

I couldn't ever do that to one of my dogs.
 

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I think even with all those "risks" its still VERY irresponsible not to ever have your male neutered...
just because you may not own the intact female it impregnates doesn't make it ok
thats still a whole new litter of dogs that need to find homes or statistically have a needle shoved into their hearts
if you want to see the REAL bad aspects of not having your dog fixed go spend 15minutes at your local kill shelter...

Needless to say everyone can see where I stand on having a dog fixed...
unless you're a breeder/ or someone who partakes in conformation there is absolutely NO real reason not to have a dog spayed/neutered IMO
 

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I didn't read the entire thread but I did read the original suggestion that spaying and neutering being bad for animals. I have first hand knowledge that not neutering can result in testicular cancer. My childhood dog died from it so it can and does happen.
 

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I'm sorry, but as a breeder I have to tell you that I don't know any responsible breeders or rescue organizations that would allow you to keep a non-breeding dog or bitch intact. This is especially true if you already have other intact dogs in your home.

I think we just have to look at the number of accidental breedings that have happened between dogs owned by members of this forum to see the wisdom of spaying and neutering companion dogs.
 

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Rescue organizations are going to have them spayed or neutered before they are even put up for adoption so that's a nonissue if this person wants to go through a rescue organization. Hey just a thought but there is a thread on here where 30 something dogs were seized by a hoarder/puppymill breeder and I read they are up for adoption April 30. Some are cute dogs so maybe you can find the thread and look into adopting one?
 

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Rescue organizations are going to have them spayed or neutered before they are even put up for adoption so that's a nonissue if this person wants to go through a rescue organization. Hey just a thought but there is a thread on here where 30 something dogs were seized by a hoarder/puppymill breeder and I read they are up for adoption April 30. Some are cute dogs so maybe you can find the thread and look into adopting one?
Great idea! They will be spayed and neutered, I am sure, but they will all be needing wonderful homes. I have heard though through Facebook that people are trying and they will not allow them tlo be placed outside of a fifty mile radius of their shelter.

Personally, I would not sell you a puppy unless you signed a non breeding agrrement, and you would have to send me a copy of the spay/neuter certificate. There have been way too many accidents, and this world does not need any more unplanned puppies. Good luck though.
 

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a little OT

If you're against spaying and neutering then why not looking for one with dewclaws and a tail too? Because that's obviously a useless surgery too if in your opinion..
As an aside, I spay & neuter & am into a 'natural enough approach' that I have never fed any of my three kids formula, & love to see my spoos eating raw & my chickens in the organic garden eating earthworms, but...

I will be a relieved person when the US joins most of the rest of the civilized world in losing docking/cropping (dewclaws, meh- I see the accident prevention point, but at least numb them first.).

Mutilation is never OK simply for the dictates of fashion, imo. I'm sorry my poor spoos don't have their whole pretty tails. :(

Not trolling for an argument, I respect greatly the opinions of those here who will disagree with me (who know 99% more about poodles than myself- I'm just right on this one ;)), & I'm sure debates have come & gone here before me- I just see silence as compliance, & had to go on the record that I do not condone it.

(A rereading of 'Black Beauty' still makes me cry, lol.)

Btw, the 'ponydoodles' site has some glorious, intact spoos, if anyone is interested in what a spoo tail looks like, sailing in the breeze!

(I'm interested to see where this thread is headed, please don't let my obligatory PSA derail the thread in progress! Sorry!:doh:)
 

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This was on a Cesar episode. A lab, who was trained beautifully in game retrieving, was growing increasingly food aggressive in his kennel. It was really odd to see a lab that aggressive, Cesar said that intact males release.. energy? I forgot the exact word, but by either confrontation or mating, when they don't get either of these then their frustration can build up and turn to aggression to other things, hence extreme food aggression.

I couldn't ever do that to one of my dogs.
Really ? lol

Yes I saw that ep also. I found nothing about it odd since I believe any breed can become aggressive.

I agree with everyone who said a responsible breeder will not sell you a breeding dog straight out.
 

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Oh, and now a proper response (now that I've read the whole thread!):

My dd's Siamese cat was unaltered for 8 yrs, being inside only & around no intact toms, & then she got uterine cancer. (Thankfully she survived her surgery, & is now 14 & being treated for a heart murmur.)

If she had gotten her spayed earlier, she could've avoided the pain and expense of cancer. Yes, spaying/neutering is not natural.

What's 'natural' is breeding constantly, whether human (nuns have huge rates of breast cancer, seriously; historically it was known as a disease peculiar to nuns, since pregnancy & breastfeeding are the norm for mammalian breast tissue), canine or feline.

'Natural' is the old animal husbandry books I used to read that advocated (for kindness's sake) chloroforming the kittens & the puppies first, that you drowned in a sack every spring.

Breast, uterine, testicular cancers, plus drowning litter after litter every year. That's natural.

Personally, I'll take my chances on the surgery, & express my crunchier side on their diets.
 
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