Poodle Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I made a batch of chicken stock today (for human consumption, not poodle) and I thought the leftover chicken might be a nice treat for our poodle. Maybe just an ounce or two a couple times a week as a kibble topper. I'm just worried about the onions I used in the stock. I used two large onions for 4 quarts of water, and a head of garlic, but I'm thinking most of that would have ended up in the stock, not penetrated the chicken itself. I had some whole chicken breasts in there, so they were still fully intact (not broken down) in the stock, and easily shred apart, but after a seven hour simmer, they're too dry and bland for me to cook human food with. I gave the poodle a little taste as a treat and he loved it, but just wondering about the fact that it was cooked in a stock with onions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Figures I'd get a 50/50 split on the replies, huh? :) Thanks both for sharing your views.
I did end up giving him a little bit as a kibble topper this morning. I figured the majority of the onion has to be in the stock, not the chicken. The breasts were still in pretty solid form, so the meat wasn't swimming in the stock absorbing the liquid. I'm not going to give it again until next weekend, so any exposure would be very, very minimal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,266 Posts
Despite all the hype concerning dogs and onions, They are no more sensitive to them than humans. Onions in large quantity can kill a human. We rarely eat more than a half a small onion. Weight for weight a dog should have no more. For most dogs that means about 1/2 oz. My dogs have been fed with left over "small" quantities of human food for many years without problem. I make a lot of chicken stock. I bone out the chicken from the stock and feed it to my dogs. I try not to feed onions, but those that get past me have been OK. That all being said it is always better to err on the safe side.


Eric
 
  • Like
Reactions: Viking Queen

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,202 Posts
Despite all the hype concerning dogs and onions, They are no more sensitive to them than humans. Onions in large quantity can kill a human. We rarely eat more than a half a small onion. Weight for weight a dog should have no more. For most dogs that means about 1/2 oz. My dogs have been fed with left over "small" quantities of human food for many years without problem. I make a lot of chicken stock. I bone out the chicken from the stock and feed it to my dogs. I try not to feed onions, but those that get past me have been OK. That all being said it is always better to err on the safe side.


Eric
This is false information. Onions are not toxic to humans, but they are classified as toxic to to dogs. They can cause hemolytic anemia. Why on earth would you ever take the chance of making your dog sick?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,266 Posts
The Same hemolytic anemia is a risk in humans who eat LARGE quantities of onions. The destruction of blood cells in both are identical. Dogs are a smaller individual and can tolerate a lot less. We tend to be more guarded with our dog's diets than with our own. As with dietary guidelines in human nutrition, there are variations in thought and those who set themselves up as egg-spurts. My view is that of a scientist not that of an egg-spurt. Human dietary guidelines are in constant change and dieticians are divided as to the benefits or negative outcomes of eating many foods including fats, cholesterol, meats and some vegetables. Just so with dogs. All that being said, it is not a good idea to deliberately feed your dog onions. If you are careful to make sure that they do not get more than a SMALL quantity, no harm will be done. There are many foods that when consumed by a human, in quantity, can kill. Onions are one of those.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15671698


"Most lists of human foods toxic to dogs include onions. We spoke with Emmy-award winning veterinarian Dr. Jeff Werber to learn more about how dangerous onions are for our dogs. Dr. Jeff explains that while onions aren’t great for dogs, they might not be quite as bad for them as most of us thought. “Traditionally, we have always recommended avoiding raw onions and raw garlic because of a type of toxin that can have a negative effect on red blood cells,” Dr. Werber confirms."


https://www.dogster.com/dog-food/can-dogs-eat-onions-what-if-your-dog-ate-onions



Eric
 
  • Like
Reactions: JenandSage

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,202 Posts
Please cite your sources, Eric. I am not a medical doctor, but I do not see ANYTHING in the literature about onions causing hemolytic anemia, or death from eating too many, in humans. And yet, there is a warning about them on nearly every veterinary site that they are toxic to dogs. Dogs are not smaller humans. They have a totally different body system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,266 Posts
Onions are a difficult product to market and virtually no valid research has been undertaken to determine the possible toxic effects largely due to marketing concerns and the low level of consumption.. Few people ever consume enough onions to cause any problems. However there have been many reports of people who have eaten LARGE quantities of onion presenting with hemolytic anemia. This in itself is not scientific proof, however I believe that there is a risk for those who consume LARGE quantities. Below is a case record of one such person.



Onion Toxicity: Putting It In Perspective


Garlic and Brain Health: Dr. Robert Beck DSc. shared that garlic can negatively impact the human brains due to a toxic substance called ‘sulphone hydroxyl ion’ that can penetrate the blood brain barrier and become poisonous for brain cells. Check out the video here: http://youtu.be/xft0CLkgLpE


https://www.isical.ac.in/~goutam.paul/onion.pdf


Dogs on the other hand (with monkeys) are very susceptible. But again it is the quantity that is important. If care is taken to remove all visible onion from food to be given to a dog then no toxic effects will be apparent. Very small dogs might be best kept totally away from them.


Eric.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,294 Posts
It's been so long since I was here...big time changes in my life...kept me insanely occupied. Anyhow, I haven't even read anything here until recently and came across this and thought I might as well add my .02 worth, for what it's worth anyhow...Oh yeah, .02. :alberteinstein: So, hi everyone...hope you are all well.

Here's something I came across:

"There are also some foods, which are edible for humans, and even other species of animals, that can pose hazards for dogs because of their different metabolism, e.g. chocolate, caffeine and other methylxanthines, grapes, raisins, onion, garlic, avocado, alcohol, nuts, etc."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2984110/



https://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/onions_the_secret_killer/


Is there some reason why it's such an important thing to feed broth cooked with onions? Would you feed rat poison in tiny amounts because you were reasonably confident that a minuscule amount wouldn't kill your dog? See, the way I see it is...if it's got the potential to be deadly toxic in some perhaps unknown amount, (not going to debate what amount or if humans can eat more or less) if it's toxic ... I am not going to feed it. Period. I am aware that huge amounts of onions can cause trouble for humans but it's different with dogs. And do you know...I have another reason. I don't have an intrinsic need to feed anything that has onions in it, whether it's just a little, if it's onion powder, if it's one little dab licked off my finger. I don't need to do it.

Here's what I do regularly in case anyone wants to know. I collect bones, love those ones that have lots of marrow in them. I collect them in a freezer bag over time. I also collect ends of carrots, celery, onion and save those instead of throwing them away...like when I'm cooking with those things and don't want the icky ends. I save those in a freezer bag too. (separate from the bones) Then when I have enough, I cook up some of the bones in my new Instant Pot, just covering them with water. NOTHING ELSE. And in two hours I have fabulous bone broth that I refrigerate until the fat solidifies on top. The next day I take it out, skim off most of the fat (not all) and melt down the gelatinous broth just enough to liquefy so I don't have to wait for it to cool again... and pour it into ice cube trays and some in small Mason jars...label them ("dogs")

And then I take the remaining bones (if I have enough) and the vegetable ends and even add in more veggies if I need more. I do the same thing. Only this time, it's full of onions and other veggies, herbs and whatever seasoning I think is a good idea...cook that up for a couple hours in my pressure cooker (longer if you do stove top or slow cooker...lots longer) and strain off just the broth, pour it into Mason jars and ice cube trays and freeze. (if you freeze in glass, just be certain to leave some space on top for expansion or it could explode in your freezer) When I cook something like rice, steam certain vegetables... or anything where I might use water, I can grab 3-4 cubes of bone broth instead. Delish.:hungry: Or I'll drink a mug full. It's a little salty and oniony. And I do NOT share that with my dogs! They have their own without onions. And they're very grateful for it. How do you like them apples? :alberteinstein:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
my toy girls get broth with onions and garlic, not the pieces I strain it and have never had a problem. I just moisten the food with the broth
That was my thinking too. I wasn't giving him any actual onion pieces, just the chicken that had cooked in the broth, and the broth was made with onions. When he was a really little puppy and I used to moisten his kibble with chicken broth, I actually made a special batch for him that didn't use any onion or garlic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,294 Posts
Onions, Garlic and Chives, the thiosulphate this contains can cause Heinz body anaemia, a condition typified by the destruction of red blood cells and causing eventual kidney damage. Unlike humans both cats and dogs do not possess the liver enzyme necessary to digest them. The amount required has not been determined, as it will depend on body weight. It is toxic in raw, cooked or dried form and consequently human food scraps should be strictly avoided. The symptoms are similar to those for human anaemia such as pale gums, tachycardia, weakness and lethargy. The dog may start to vomit and suffer diarrhoea, with bloody urine. Rapid treatment by the vet is essential who may decide on blood transfusions and/or I.V. fluids.

There is a division of opinion concerning Garlic. Some tests feel that Garlic, similar to Onions and Chives are seriously toxic to dogs, whilst others will claim it is positively beneficial. On balance, until proof positive prevails, it is my opinion to keep Garlic away from dogs.
https://hubpages.com/animals/Foods-that-can-be-toxic-to-your-dog


https://www.poodleforum.com/29-poodle-health/185626-good-article-dangerous-things-our-dogs-ingest.html
 
  • Like
Reactions: zooeysmom

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,294 Posts
Apparently, from what I gather from my research, hemolytic anemia doesn't necessarily show symptoms immediately. It can be a gradual destruction of rbc (red blood cells) and gradual damage to the organs. Why risk it? It's easy enough to avoid onions. Or is there some compelling reason to feed something with onions that I'm not seeing here?:confused3: I can see it might be easier to feed them broth since you already have it right there. But I often already have something right there...made, done, has onions or was cooked with onions. It would be easy to grab some and feed it to the dogs. But I don't. I reach for something known to be safe and non-toxic...like a can of sardines rinsed off. It only has a little mercury in it, right? :lol:
 
  • Like
Reactions: zooeysmom

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Is there some reason why it's such an important thing to feed broth cooked with onions?
Thank you for sharing this information. As I came here looking for the opinions and experience of others, I appreciate all views and information I have been offered. I will say though, that I never said it was important to feed broth cooked with onions. In fact, I wasn't giving him the broth at all. I do have some onion-free broth in my freezer that I made specifically to be "dog friendly" some months back. This time, I was making broth for myself and when I pulled out these lovely, still intact chicken breasts (I normally just use scraps and buy cheap wings if more meat/bones are needed, but had a couple leftover breasts in the freezer from a bulk-package), I thought that, as long as it would pose no harm, it would be nice to let the dog have some shredded chicken instead of throwing it all in the trash. I did second guess myself though, knowing that the broth the chicken had cooked in had onions in it, which is when I decided to visit PF to see what others thought of this.
I did give him a little bit of the chicken (no broth) as a kibble topper last weekend. I saved some more in the freezer for next weekend, but may change my mind and trash it afterall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,202 Posts
rp17, I don't think PB's posts were directed at you, but rather at the people who were defending feeding a dog anything with onions in it. I always value PB's opinions, as she is a life-long savvy dog owner who researches everything!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
zooeysmom, thanks for pointing that out, and I hope my reply didn't come across as combative in any way. I also truly appreciate hearing any information anyone can offer, and admit I was worried the initial intent of my question may have been misunderstood and wanted to clarify.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,294 Posts
rp17, I don't think PB's posts were directed at you, but rather at the people who were defending feeding a dog anything with onions in it. I always value PB's opinions, as she is a life-long savvy dog owner who researches everything!

Thanks Zooey'smom...That's exactly what I meant. You know me well. I knew the OP wasn't pushing the issue and that's why she asked in the first place. I worry about people and their dogs if they get the idea that it's safe to feed onions because while some dogs may have dodged a bullet, there are a whole lot who have been made extremely ill, damaged and dead from onions and other toxic things that dogs are particularly sensitive to. My 7 lb Matisse ate 1/2 a grape once that fell on the floor. I called the vet, thinking I was being ridiculously paranoid and he said with dead seriousness, "hmmm, 7 Lbs? yep, you better induce vomiting at once." :afraid: Matisse turned out okay. But some of these things are scary to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zooeysmom

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,294 Posts
Thank you for sharing this information. As I came here looking for the opinions and experience of others, I appreciate all views and information I have been offered. I will say though, that I never said it was important to feed broth cooked with onions. In fact, I wasn't giving him the broth at all. I do have some onion-free broth in my freezer that I made specifically to be "dog friendly" some months back. This time, I was making broth for myself and when I pulled out these lovely, still intact chicken breasts (I normally just use scraps and buy cheap wings if more meat/bones are needed, but had a couple leftover breasts in the freezer from a bulk-package), I thought that, as long as it would pose no harm, it would be nice to let the dog have some shredded chicken instead of throwing it all in the trash. I did second guess myself though, knowing that the broth the chicken had cooked in had onions in it, which is when I decided to visit PF to see what others thought of this.
I did give him a little bit of the chicken (no broth) as a kibble topper last weekend. I saved some more in the freezer for next weekend, but may change my mind and trash it afterall.
Do you mean you'll throw that in the trash? Or do you mean "trash" figuratively...like can the whole idea? lol. Is it something you can still eat yourself?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
[/B] Do you mean you'll throw that in the trash? Or do you mean "trash" figuratively...like can the whole idea? lol. Is it something you can still eat yourself?
Haha, I can see now how that read! I actually meant I'd throw it in the garbage, but I'm just talking about the shredded breast meat I had saved for a kibble topper. I still have a few quarts of stock for myself which was the end goal in the first place! When I make chicken stock, everything I strain out usually goes in the garbage anyway...unless I'm making the stock for soup in which case I'd take the meat out before it gets too dry and save it for the soup. This time I was just making it to replenish my supply for cooking stock and hadn't planned on saving the meat. It was mostly leftover bones and wing tips, but I had a couple extra breasts that had been in the freezer a bit too long, so had thrown them in too. By the time the breasts had simmered for 6 hours, the meat was bland and dry and I didn't think would make very good human food. It was going to go in the garbage anyway until I thought it might be a nice treat for our mpoo to get some real meat mixed in with his kibble.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top