Researching Miniature Red Poodles

7985 Views 10 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Rose n Poos, Oct 12, 2020

Aesir

Discussion Starter · Sep 20, 2019

For years, my wife and I spoke about "one day getting a dog." I always ultimately thought it was too much much responsibility. But now with my wife working from home, we've been considering it a little more seriously. I've been reading a number of books and doing research. My wife is a sucker for anything "cute," and as we've learned more, she's been talked out of the various poodle mixes or "designer dogs." I initially gravitated toward the larger "working" breeds, but had to admit our household is probably not the right fit for that. Over time, we've concluded a miniature poodle would be a good size, fit, and combination of both of our interests.

We started looking for miniature red poodles on the internet, and all google searches lead to Scarlet's Fancy Poodles in Central California. To the novice, everything looks great--health tests, guarantees, etc., but after doing some research on this site, and reading about the importance of OFA tests, and breeders that actually show their dogs, maybe this isn't the best place to look. Seems like there's been some bad experiences and odd reactions from the breeder.

Initially, it seemed like miniature red poodles were easy to find. I can go on the AKC "marketplace" website and easily find miniature red poodle puppies for sale. But I'm assuming that's not a good place to look either?

I read through this discussion that is only a year and a half old:
Red Miniature Poodles in California (or driving distance?)
And these discussions about the same in New York:
Want 1 Red Miniature Poodle
Looking to Purchase two mini Poodles

It seems like the general sentiment is to just not try to choose a color, and indeed a number of people ultimately just move on from trying to find a red. But if it's such a popular color (the logo for this website appears to be a red!), I'm surprised more "reputable" breeders don't step in to try to fill the demand with good, humanely bred dogs. Unfortunately, most of the reputable, recommended breeders have terrible websites. I don't mean to be disparaging, and I get it--they're probably spending more time with their dogs, and since they don't mean for it to be a big business, they have more referrals than they can deal with before worrying about creating a slick website. But it makes it hard for the novice to figure things out.

I found the "Apricot Red Poodle Club" website online. Would any of the members of that club be safe places to look in terms of the breeders?

I've found interesting information at the Versatility In Poodles website, but it doesn't have specific breeder recommendations. I have yet to inquire with the PCA National Breeder Referral contact--is that a good source?

We're in Southern California, and it seems ideal to be within driving distance (even if it's a very long drive), but I'm not opposed to travelling, if necessary.

To be honest, we're not quite ready to adopt a puppy. But it seems like the best thing would be to identify a breeder, get to know them a bit and then they could help select the right puppy from a future litter based on temperament and knowing us. Am I looking in the right places? Any other places we should look?

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Rose n Poos

· #2 · Sep 24, 2019 (Edited)

Hi and Welcome!

It sounds like you're on track for what's of primary importance. That said, almost all of us have color preferences but ending up with one of our favorites isn't always what happens.

We have some members who have found red mini's so I hope they chime in for you.

Til then, here's some links and some cautions along with:

https://poodleclubofamerica.org/find-a-poodle-breeder/
This link should get you to pages which direct you to folks within PCA who can help with breeder referrals for your desired area.

https://marketplace.akc.org/puppies/poodle
These are AKC registered breeders but review their websites thoroughly. Look for OFA, CHIC health testing info in the site. If not on the website, ask the breeder to provide all health testing results and links (this will be on the dam and sire fyi). In fact, do that with any breeder you make contact with. A quality breeder will not hesitate to show the health documentation.

"Poodle Breeders" Standard Poodles, Miniature Poodles, Toy Poodles Breeders Directory!
"Poodle Breeders" Standard Poodles, Miniature Poodles, Toy Poodles Breeders Directory!
All the breeders listed here are required to do appropriate health testing in order to list on that site.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/477233365657056/
Breeders here all do appropriate health testing.

https://www.poodlebreeders.com/
Another site with multiple breeders listed. Use the same caution.

I see you're in SoCal. How far are you willing and able to travel?

If you use the Search function at the top, select advanced then enter "red mini" as your keywords. Don't limit anything else. You'll get a lot of threads, so check the headers on them to see if it looks like breeders might be mentioned. Or, just read them all, if it's quiet night for you

.

I saw a reminder by one of our members to contact one of the quality breeders of reds, even if not the size or in the area you're looking. They will usually know of other breeders they could suggest for you. We have several members who are quality breeders of reds. They are all very gracious.

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Mel

· #3 · Sep 24, 2019

Don’t forge the poodle fading gene. It’s hard to breed out of a line. So your red poodle puppy might actually be not red full grown. I’ve seen some even go cream. Make sure parents are dark red

Also if you decide on an apricot make sure it’s an apricot and not cream. I thought I was buying an apricot when I brought home Sandy :aetsch:. Nope. I’m happy how she turned out and it’s fun to play with hair color on a light poodle.

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Aesir

Discussion Starter · #4 · Sep 25, 2019

Thanks for the feedback. As you can see from my post, I've looked in a lot of those places, but wasn't sure which ones were good places to look and which weren't. The AKC Marketplace kind of seems like the wild west, for instance, and I'm not sure if I know what I'm doing enough to decipher the health tests.

It seems like both parents should be listed on OFA, and these tend to be the most common:

Hips
Eyes
Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) DNA Test
Patella
Canine Health - CHIC qualification

But then I see others like Elbow, Legg-Calve-Perthes, Osteochondrodysplasias, etc.

These posts were kind of helpful in trying to decipher, but I'm still not 100% sure:
Genetic Conditions - OFA Blue Book: What to Know In Choosing A Puppy or Breeding
Is your poodle (or breeder's poodles) OFA or CHIC? And this: $$$!
Breeder search - health testing expectations

Thanks for the "Poodle Breeders" Standard Poodles, Miniature Poodles, Toy Poodles Breeders Directory! resource--seems like the health testing is pretty important there, and I had not seen that site.

Regarding travel, we could travel anywhere in the country, but it seems more practical to be within driving distance if possible.

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MaizieFrosty

· #5 · Sep 25, 2019

If I wanted a red mini, I would look into Danube and Patriot.

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Raindrops

· #6 · Sep 25, 2019

I can second MaizieFrosty, as my black boy is from Danube and Timea was wonderful to work with. I still text her photos all the time. I have seen one of Timea's reds in person and they are wonderful, though I think they are mostly in the smaller size range for minis. Her blacks tend to be larger.

Reds tend to be newer and trendier, so I would be extra cautious making sure you have a good breeder. This forum is full of great tips.

I would also agree that the more you research and look at poodles, the less set you will be on color. Temperament is soooo much more important, and I'd be happy with any color that has a great temperament. Health would be my #2 concern, with appearance coming in third.

You will have so much fun! I'm doing obedience and agility with my boy and he has so much potential.

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MollyMuiMa

· #7 · Sep 25, 2019

Look at 'Poodles Online.com' (all breeders must do testing) I just looked and KayKids in Jamul Ca breeds reds and apricots......

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Rose n Poos

· #8 · Sep 25, 2019

All this info to sort thru can be overwhelming. OFA lists the primary recommended tests for each poodle size on their site.

https://www.ofa.org/browse-by-breed

Poodle Club of America primary recommendations by poodle size:

https://3hydp9ye82a18dc272gyhmi1-wp.../uploads/Health_Screening_in_Poodles_2016.pdf

I would compare the lists to what breeders note on their websites, of those that do. For those that don't list testing on their sites, ask them what testing they do when you communicate with them.

There are a lot more conditions which can be tested for, but so far, they're not part of the standard pre-breeding testing. As more is learned, more tests may be added to the recommended lists.

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George Stevens

· #9 · Oct 12, 2020

I would be very cautious with the toy and tiny toy poodles. I have had two wonderful toys who each lived until 15 and 16 years old. I was finally ready for a third poodle, I love them so much. I found a place called Scarlets Fancy Poodles in Arroyo Grande. She sold to me with an open soft spot. She promised it will close up and acted like I was crazy and had anxiety problems to be so concerned. My veterinarian of 30 years was extremely concerned. My puppy died within months. It was very traumatic and I don't want any other puppy have that happen to it. They also go by Red and Apricot Poodles in Arroyo Grande. I will do so much more research before I ever buy another poodle. Watching my little girl suffer was one of the most painful experiences of my life.

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George Stevens

· #10 · Oct 12, 2020

Aesir said:
For years, my wife and I spoke about "one day getting a dog." I always ultimately thought it was too much much responsibility. But now with my wife working from home, we've been considering it a little more seriously. I've been reading a number of books and doing research. My wife is a sucker for anything "cute," and as we've learned more, she's been talked out of the various poodle mixes or "designer dogs." I initially gravitated toward the larger "working" breeds, but had to admit our household is probably not the right fit for that. Over time, we've concluded a miniature poodle would be a good size, fit, and combination of both of our interests.

We started looking for miniature red poodles on the internet, and all google searches lead to Scarlet's Fancy Poodles in Central California. To the novice, everything looks great--health tests, guarantees, etc., but after doing some research on this site, and reading about the importance of OFA tests, and breeders that actually show their dogs, maybe this isn't the best place to look. Seems like there's been some bad experiences and odd reactions from the breeder.

Initially, it seemed like miniature red poodles were easy to find. I can go on the AKC "marketplace" website and easily find miniature red poodle puppies for sale. But I'm assuming that's not a good place to look either?

I read through this discussion that is only a year and a half old:
Red Miniature Poodles in California (or driving distance?)
And these discussions about the same in New York:
Want 1 Red Miniature Poodle
Looking to Purchase two mini Poodles

It seems like the general sentiment is to just not try to choose a color, and indeed a number of people ultimately just move on from trying to find a red. But if it's such a popular color (the logo for this website appears to be a red!), I'm surprised more "reputable" breeders don't step in to try to fill the demand with good, humanely bred dogs. Unfortunately, most of the reputable, recommended breeders have terrible websites. I don't mean to be disparaging, and I get it--they're probably spending more time with their dogs, and since they don't mean for it to be a big business, they have more referrals than they can deal with before worrying about creating a slick website. But it makes it hard for the novice to figure things out.

I found the "Apricot Red Poodle Club" website online. Would any of the members of that club be safe places to look in terms of the breeders?

I've found interesting information at the Versatility In Poodles website, but it doesn't have specific breeder recommendations. I have yet to inquire with the PCA National Breeder Referral contact--is that a good source?

We're in Southern California, and it seems ideal to be within driving distance (even if it's a very long drive), but I'm not opposed to travelling, if necessary.

To be honest, we're not quite ready to adopt a puppy. But it seems like the best thing would be to identify a breeder, get to know them a bit and then they could help select the right puppy from a future litter based on temperament and knowing us. Am I looking in the right places? Any other places we should look?

I wish I found this before I bought from Scarlets Fancy Poodles. The woman Linda DeBlauw must sacrifice health for beauty. I bought an expensive tiny toy from her. She had an open fontanelle. Linda told me it was absolutely normal and it would close up. As a matter of fact, she commented on my having anxiety issues. My veterinarian told me it was a serious problem and he would not have spent that kind of money on a 2.7 pound poodle who's soft spot was still open. Again, the owner of Scarlets Fancy Poodles was defensive and blaming and told me that happens often. My baby girl died within months. She started sneezing and couldn't stop, the pressure became too much for her brain and she seized. She died before we could get to the car to go to ER. Linda was unphased and showed no compassion. She did not offer condolences, nor anything else for that matter. I spent $3500 on my beautiful puppy and $1220 on vet bills. I had her for a few months.

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Rose n Poos

· #11 · Oct 12, 2020

Dear George,

First I want to say hello and welcome to PF. I'm so sorry to hear of your very sad experience, so sorry for your loss, and so sorry for your little girl.

This is a hard, hard lesson to learn and harder still to know it comes at the expense of an innocent life.

I can only say that if someone comes to PF to inquire about a breeder I and others will do our best to inform them of what to look for in a breeder, and to hopefully help them select a breeder who will do all the things necessary to give the pups they send on to new families the very best chance at a long, happy life together.

I hope someday that we'll see a post from you with happier news. If you ever decide to look for another poodle, we're here to help if we can.

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