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Discussion Starter #1
I was just wondering if it was a normal practice for a breeder to stop all contact after a puppy was purchased.
I mean I've read most the threads here and everyone is talking about being close to their breeder...and yet mine won't respond to an email or telephone call.

and another question, I bought the puppy from her for "show quality/breeding stock" only because I wanted my AKC paperwork the moment I picked Elphie up ((shes scheduled to be fixed at the end of December)) shouldn't a practicing breeder have the AKC forms ready for when the pup is picked up? I've had Elphaba since July 27th and I've still not received any sort of documents on her

and another thing xD I contacted AKC and they told me that she doesn't have the dam (("Casey" was all the information given to me as the dames name)) listed under hers or her husbands name ((yet the sire is their registered dog)). Is it common for a breeder to have her dogs registered under another person? or would you assume...like my mom...that the mother wasn't even registered?

I know that I rushed into getting my puppy, I love her dearly but if I could go back in time I might not have chosen this particular path of getting my beloved poodle
I bought her as a loving life long companion and that she will always be but I'm just a little aggravated that I may have been duped
Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated

.Keith
 

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It is VERY unusual for a good breeder to stop contact - to the contrary - any reputable breeder is happy to stay in touch and be of any help FOR LIFE of a puppy.

Many other things are obviously not done correctly - but hey - what can you do now ? Did you ever even get a pedigree ? Are parents Ch titled in any AKC field ? Did you see any health results for a Dam and a Sire? Any proof of Vet. exams of the puppies and immunization ???

If your answer was "none of the above" , than you dealt with very "murky" person.
 

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Sounds murky to me too... Do you have any papers on Elphie? A reputable breeder would give you all papers related to the puppy when you picked it up. They would also reply to emails/ calls whatever, because they would want to be sure that everything is ok with you and their puppy.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I was given papers stating that she had all of her shots up to that point and what not worming and all of that
but I was never shown any pedigree and I'm sure there aren't any CH.s closely related too her

I think in the back of my mind I knew the kind of person i was getting my dog from...but I think I just pushed it out as though I was just being paranoid
I just really wanted a healthy loving dog and I got that...I just also got stuck with a breeder who obviously doesn't care to much about her litters to keep in touch with the buyer v.v;

I was never given the parents full names so I couldn't even begin to look up OFA's on them

I did however have my vet run every test imaginable on Elphie the day after we got her to make sure there was nothing wrong with her
and he told me she was a perfectly healthy standard poodle ((And one of the sweetest he had ever met))

thank you guys for answering my questions =]]
 

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I did however have my vet run every test imaginable on Elphie the day after we got her to make sure there was nothing wrong with her and he told me she was a perfectly healthy standard poodle ((And one of the sweetest he had ever met))
And in the end, that's what truly matters once you've got the dog. :) Glad you're so happy with your pup!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thats what my mom keeps telling me
"Shes like you love Elphie, who cares if you don't have her paperwork"
and I'm like...I love my dog VERY much but I paid for that paperwork I deserve to have it
but I guess I can't make something appear if it never existed?
=]]
 

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I wish you the best of luck and may your pup stay healthy forever :) If the breeder was so irresponsible - you do not want her in your life anyway ; ) ! She certainly will not be eager to help with any health problems that may arise later - so just try now to "go with a flow" and enjoy your puppy.
 

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As for the papers, AKC has a little slogan running around right now "No papers, No puppy" There is a little handout available on it, I just finished setting up a public education fair booth for our kennel club today and that is one of the handouts we have hanging out on the table. That said, I don't send papers home with a puppy. I have you sign the contract, sign the registration papers, and then you get to leave with your puppy. I handle all the rest and mail the papers off for you with the rest of the litter or hold them until spay or neuter depending on the agreement. This way I know the dog got registered and you will have proof of ownship in your name, (it will be delivered directly to you via AKC withing a couple of weeks after I mail them off). The one or two times we've sent registration papers home with the puppy they get lost or forgotten or whatever and they don't get sent in thus the dog doesn't get registred. It's all talked about upfront though waaayyy before you ever get approved as a home so it's never a surprise to a new puppy parent as it's all pre-agreed on.

to asnwer to your question about the dam possibly being reg. under another name. It is possible and not super uncommon to do what we call a lease on a particular dog for the purpose of breeding. Usualy this is done with bitches since if you wanted to breed to a stud you'd just pay a fee assuming his owner would allow him to be bred. Anyway with a lease the dam is in your name for a short period of time, just long enough to do your breeding and get your puppies sometimes. It is possible that this is what happened?
Option 2 would be that AKC was unable to really look up the dog in their records because you do not have the correct registered name.
Option 3 The dog could be co-owned with another individual and the breeder is not the primary owner listed on the dog.
Option 4 The dam is not AKC registered and this breeder lied to you :( I hope thats not the case.

At any rate you got the puppy you wanted and you love her so that in the grand scheme of things is all that really matters :) So congrats on your new baby :)
 

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aww, yeah that does sound murky hu. It sucks, cos as much as you love Elphie, you did expect the breeder to come through on their end, and it's always dissapointing when your estimation of someone fails to hold up!!!

Though to be honest it's not uncommon for these 'breeders' to dupe people, and many people I know have been duped too. They too thought it all looked and seemed really good, but it never followed through in the end and the breeder left them high and dry. I consider myself extremely lucky to have 'rescued' an adult poodle, hunted down her breeder, and the breeder and I now keep in contact fairly regularly!!!

Love Elphie for who she is; a wonderful example of a loving spoo. :)
 

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IMO, it kinda sounds like you were taken for a spin. I echo your mother and everyone else, she's your baby, and well all know you love her regardless of her papers/etc. She sounds like a sweet little girl from your other post. (And I LOVE her name! Wicked is my favorite:) )
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you all for your input I was actually considering seeking legal action because of our "contract"

but with the advice of you fine people and my mother I know that in the end it probably wouldn't turn out the way I expect it too =]]

I think what made me want the papers was to like...justify my ignorance of buying a poodle from someone a little fishy
I don't want to bad mouth the woman she keeps her poodles in her home and they're all well taken care of from what I saw being in her house I just wish she were a bit more forthright
because I probably still would have gotten Elphie if she weren't a "pure bred" poodle lol

I do know this was an eye opening experience, so now when I get my 2nd standard ((hopefully summer 2011)) I will have done MORE research then I thought I had done and I'll be a well read buyer and know EXACTLY what needs to be done before I ever pick the puppy up ^_^

I love this forum everyone here is the nicest ((and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who loves poodles this much xD))
 

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Both breeders I have purchased poodles from have been very forthcoming with information. I have always felt they came with "tech support". Any stupid question I have had, they are more than happy to answer.
My first ones had their paperwork ready for me when I picked them up. They came with an extensive pedigree, shot/vet records, paperwork backing all genetic testing, an "owners manual" as well as contract/guarentee.
Our more recent puppies, the breeder sent in my paperwork, and the registration came to me a few weeks later. They also came with dna profiles of the parents, as well as all the prior information. I have had a great relationship with my standard breeder for about 18 years.

Sounds like you have learned something. I found it helpfull to NEVER go even see puppies unless the breeder is worthy. Once you see those puppies it's very hard not to get sucked in. I see puppy, smell puppy breath and my mind goes!
I know many people who took a puppy from a bad breeder/conditons because they felt worse leaving it there. Which just creates more room for them to breed more puppies!
 

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It does sound "murky" to me. The registration papers aren't *always* available at the point of purchase. It depends on when and if the litter owner registers the litter. A breeder may register a litter for up to a year after birth. Sometimes when the owner of the sire and owner of the dam live in two different geographies it isn't quickly coordinated. However, this story does seem fishy to me in that the breeder won't return your calls.

If you are happy with your puppy and all is well, no harm done. Registration is really quite meaningless to your every day household pet.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yeah, I guess that I should have done a lot more research about the particular breeder before ever going and getting Elphie =]]
 

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My puppy buyer go home with a binder that includes:

Picture of puppy at 8 weeks
Contract
Registration papers
Pedigree of puppy
Pictures of dam and sire
Copies of health testing on dam and sire
Information on poodle health issues such as bloat, Addisons, SA etc

I send all registration paper work home with my puppies. If I can not trust my puppy buyers to stick to the terms of their contracts, then I have no business giving them a puppy.

It sounds as though your breeder does not have an AKC registered Poodle or she has an AKC poodle but she was sold it with limited registration which means that she was not supposed to breed it. There is a cost difference between AKC registered Poodles and non-AKC registered poodles even for spayed dogs. If you paid for an AKC registerable Poodle and you did not get one, then you are due a refund.

I would contact the Better Business Bureau in your city.
 

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Just one more similarity in your story and my daughter's!! Katy purchased Chalumeau from a questionable "breeder" about 120 miles from our home. The initial contacts seemed OK. The "breeder", Stephanie, answered our calls, questions, emails pretty faithfully, but once Meau was in our hands - all contact from her ceased.

Katy did not opt to pay the extra $$ for papers because she knew Meau was going to be spayed and she didn't feel the need for the papers. After about 6 months had gone by with no contact from Stephanie, I called her to give her an update on how Meau was doing... she couldn't have cared LESS!! She was done breeding poodles (and was now on to dachshunds or Great Danes, or a couple of other breeds...).

Katy is very much in love with her dog, but knows that if she ever gets bit by the poodle bug again, she'll be doing a little more homework before just buying from the closest, most convenient "breeder".

I got my Lucy from a breeder about 1,300 miles away geographically, but we're very close philosophically, ethically, etc... I remain in touch with my breeder regularly - she contacts me for updates on Lucy and I contact her with updates, questions, and more! Sometimes we just talk for hours and poodles only come up sporadically... we've become good friends as well as breeder/client.

I know Katy is missing that connection in her situation, but her devotion to Meau is enough that she doesn't feel that she's too deprived. She'd love Meau the same whether she had platinum plated papers or no papers at all!

Wishing you and Elphie good fortunes and a long, happy, healthy time together!
 

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I have a dog who is not registered with NZKC papers, the breeder was having a once only litter (hard to believe I know, but I have stayed in contact and her bitch has since been speyed), and still they are close...they were what we would call 'one of the irresponsible' ones, but we desperately wanted a mini poo not a poo X and that was all that was available in the area. I spent time with both parent dogs, and email regularly with updates.

We have no contract, hopefully nothing genetic goes wrong, and if it does, well that teaches me!
 

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Just one more similarity in your story and my daughter's!! Katy purchased Chalumeau from a questionable "breeder" about 120 miles from our home. The initial contacts seemed OK. The "breeder", Stephanie, answered our calls, questions, emails pretty faithfully, but once Meau was in our hands - all contact from her ceased.

Katy did not opt to pay the extra $$ for papers because she knew Meau was going to be spayed and she didn't feel the need for the papers. After about 6 months had gone by with no contact from Stephanie, I called her to give her an update on how Meau was doing... she couldn't have cared LESS!! She was done breeding poodles (and was now on to dachshunds or Great Danes, or a couple of other breeds...).

Katy is very much in love with her dog, but knows that if she ever gets bit by the poodle bug again, she'll be doing a little more homework before just buying from the closest, most convenient "breeder".
Ditto!!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
lol that is really funny our close our stories about obtaining and caring for our poodles match :D my "breeder" was about 120-130 miles from me

Really the only reason I wanted the akc papers were to be like "Thats my dogs papers shes a REAL poodle" I don't know why...it was probably because everyone kept telling me I was being taken for a ride xD

and again I ADORE my Elphaba registered or not whether shes a "purebred" or not it doesn't matter to me...it would have before I bought her but now that I've gotten to know my rambunctious little girl I couldn't have asked for anymore :D

thank you all for you input and answering my questions

((I also went back to the breeders web page and she has one of elphies litter mates 'Nora' someone returned back to her and she still breeding toys but not standards anymore if anyone wants the link I don't mind sharing))
 
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