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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Tonight Jasper and I made up a Puppy K class that we had missed. Different dogs/instructor. Most of the dogs were younger than Jasper, except for a German Shepherd that was a bit older. In our regular class most of the puppies are the same age, almost 5 months, so usually on the same page play-wise.

All of the puppies were super calm tonight. The first 15 minutes of class is playtime. Jasper was the only pup who wanted to play :eek:hwell:. Well, except for the most adorable puppy that was about the size of one of Jasper's paws LOL. He played hard with Jas.

The German Shepherd apparently has issues with new dogs. It immediately growled at Jasper. Jasper heeded the warning and backed off initially. Any time Jas would go near the GS it would growl and run up the agility ramp that was stored off to the side. Each time with the instructor correcting Jas and having us take him away and hold him while they coaxed the GS back down. The last time Jas was with another dog and walked behind the GS causing him to growl and lunge. He tried to bite but luckily Jas is quick on his feet.

Long story short playtime was spent trying to hold onto Jasper. You can't have a leash or collar on during playtime which made holding him difficult. For the entire night if we were located near the GS while doing an exercise the GS growled at Jas. We got stuck in line behind it for the "come" exercise and that was all kinds of fun :fish:.

I'm a little confused about the process tonight and why playtime was spent correcting/yelling at Jasper. There is an xpen setup in the room, which I thought would have been a great solution for the GS. He could have seen what was going on without all the fear. All of the other dogs were fine together, and this time in class is meant for the dogs to play and socialize with the other humans/dogs.

Anyhow just a bummer of a Puppy K night. I know Jasper had to have been tired of getting corrected, as much as I was tired of having to do it. That coupled with the teenage stage he's in with being a big bouncy dork of a dog LOL, we felt like Puppy K rejects by the end of the night.
 

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Really strange reaction of the "trainer" :wacko:

I would be upset too if my dog was corrected for "being friendly" :smow: and "dog with issues" got to "run the place" !

If I were you , I would ask the trainer for the explanation and if he does not give a valid one - I would leave the class and ask for my money back !!! He should be able to organize the class in a way that does accommodate all dogs and if necessary make two separate playing areas.

Also , why was he placing Jasper by that GS in the line if problem is so obvious ???

Just strange ...but do not put up with it : ( !!!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It was just a strange situation. I even said at one point that it seemed ridiculous that the focus was on Jas when he was just being a normal puppy, doing what that initial 15 minutes was intended for. While Jasper was being corrected the GS was being petted and calmed by the owner and trainer and was even given treats at one point.

Truthfully, neither Puppy K class is quite what we hoped. Our normal class is more lecture than doing. Most of the hour is spent standing on the leash with dogs laying down sporting blank looks on their faces. Jasper enjoys the socialization and playtime though. I teach the commands at home but it would be nice for him to practice with the distraction of other puppies around. Perhaps if the puppies were closer to 8 weeks old and still little willing to please bundles of fun LOL, but it's just not very useful for puppies this age.

Only 2 more classes left. Before I sign up for the next obedience class I'll be sure to sit in first to make sure it seems beneficial.
 

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OK I can fully understand feeling bad that Jasper was being corrected rather than the GS pup, but without seeing the situation it IS actually possibly warrented... I *hate* when people insist their dog is just "being friendly" when infact the dog is being a pushy lil brat and getting into the personal space of a dog that dislikes it's personal space being invaded! I'm NOT saying this is what Jasper was being like though, cos I wasn't there! lol

Yes I agree that the GS should have probably been handled differently, but it's obvious the GS has some issues with dogs coming in too close, so it also needs the handler to be aware and be able to keep the GS pup feeling safe, if the pup felt safe it'd likely not feel the need to growl and protect itself from Jasper. (I KNOW Jasper didn't wanna hurt him at all!! But the GS pup has issues... lol)

This article is awesome:
http://www.nesr.info/images-english-shepherd/He-just-wants-to-say-hi.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #7
OK I can fully understand feeling bad that Jasper was being corrected rather than the GS pup, but without seeing the situation it IS actually possibly warrented... I *hate* when people insist their dog is just "being friendly" when infact the dog is being a pushy lil brat and getting into the personal space of a dog that dislikes it's personal space being invaded! I'm NOT saying this is what Jasper was being like though, cos I wasn't there! lol

Yes I agree that the GS should have probably been handled differently, but it's obvious the GS has some issues with dogs coming in too close, so it also needs the handler to be aware and be able to keep the GS pup feeling safe, if the pup felt safe it'd likely not feel the need to growl and protect itself from Jasper. (I KNOW Jasper didn't wanna hurt him at all!! But the GS pup has issues... lol)

This article is awesome:
http://www.nesr.info/images-english-shepherd/He-just-wants-to-say-hi.pdf
I completely understand what you're saying. There was apparently a problem at first with the GS and the other dogs, too, but he's come to tolerate them over the last few weeks. Last night Jas did try to approach the GS a few times as did the other dogs. I fully admit that Jasper can, and does, play hard like the other pups his age. He was pretty good last night though as everyone was calm and not as into playing as his usual group.

With that said, this is exactly what this part of class has been about. Getting the dogs used to the unexpected. (which I guess Jas ran into last night LOL) The dogs tend to travel around the room in a pack, playing and sniffing each other. They stop to visit with people along the way and get treats from them. We're encouraged to touch their ears, mouths and feet to get them used to having someone other than their owner touch them. It was just confusing for him I think because he was just doing what had been encouraged for the past month of classes.

Anyhow I hope they are able to work with the GS and get him past this stage. I'd be concerned about how he'd behave if sneaked up upon by a small child. (they kept kids away from him last night)

As for Jasper, we're working on playing a bit easier and not having to have ME in his sight every single second. He loves everyone, but prefers to have me within sight while he's socializing and loving on everyone else. Who knew I was so fun to be around ;). LOL
 

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I guess you'd have to think about this in dog terms. If you are a guarded dog and a puppy is invading your space you are going to give warnings to back that puppy off and if said puppy isn't heeding to the dog's warnings it's your responsibility as his leader to force him into listening. Because puppies do puppy things doesn't mean that they shouldn't be corrected. Harry corrects Mia all the time and there is growling involved occasionally. It's like children, you think "oh they are just being kids" but if another child doesn't want his personal space invaded that's his right and a child that doesn't respect that needs to be disciplined immediately and taught that they need to back off and give a little room.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I appreciate the space thing completely. Just to clarify, Jas wasn't in the GS's face but he was near him since that's where the puppies kept hanging out. I agree it is good for them to learn respect. It was just hard to keep him away since everyone was milling around the same general area and he wanted to be where the action is. Since we can't have leashes/collars during this time I guess I could have put Jas in the XPen instead even though he wasn't really interested in the GS specifically.

On a more positive note, Jasper did great letting all the new people touch his ears, feet and mouth :). And he got along swimmingly with all the other pups, especially his teeny tiny new friend.
 

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As for Jasper, we're working on playing a bit easier and not having to have ME in his sight every single second. He loves everyone, but prefers to have me within sight while he's socializing and loving on everyone else. Who knew I was so fun to be around ;). LOL
You don't to train that out of him! That is a VERY GOOD thing!! You want him to be confident on his own, like he is, but you want him checking in on you. It will be a god send when he's older and off leash.
 

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If this is a training session, I find it odd they don't have the dogs on leashes. When training in a group don't you think it's best to have control over your dog at all times? If they don't respond to a command, you cannot do anything and they can get away with ignoring. If it was a playdate I could understand but you said it's training.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If this is a training session, I find it odd they don't have the dogs on leashes. When training in a group don't you think it's best to have control over your dog at all times? If they don't respond to a command, you cannot do anything and they can get away with ignoring. If it was a playdate I could understand but you said it's training.
The class starts with 15 minutes of "playtime". During this time puppies are allowed to play and burn off energy before formal class begins, checking out each other as well as the humans. The humans are supposed to pet the pups, touch ears/nose/feet, and give a treat. Since the puppies are wrestling and so forth during this time you have to remove leash and collar before entering the main area. Obviously not the ideal situation for a dog that doesn't react well around new dogs.

Once the "official" class begins the leashes and collars go back on.
 

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You don't to train that out of him! That is a VERY GOOD thing!! You want him to be confident on his own, like he is, but you want him checking in on you. It will be a god send when he's older and off leash.
True! I do need him to get better though or he'll never pass the CGC. There's probably a happy medium there... somewhere :).
 

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puppy kindergarten is different to formal training classes IMO. Puppy K is geared towards some general obedience, but largely it is for socialising the pups, in which case off lead play time is important.
 

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The class starts with 15 minutes of "playtime". During this time puppies are allowed to play and burn off energy before formal class begins, checking out each other as well as the humans. The humans are supposed to pet the pups, touch ears/nose/feet, and give a treat. Since the puppies are wrestling and so forth during this time you have to remove leash and collar before entering the main area. Obviously not the ideal situation for a dog that doesn't react well around new dogs.

Once the "official" class begins the leashes and collars go back on.
Oh okay I see.
 

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I too think they handled the whole situation wrong. If the GSD is the Only dog with problems then it should of been removed from the play and sat to the side out of the gait being rewarded with being calm. Or like you said, in an x-pen while the other dogs played freely. Its not poor Jaspers fault that the dog didnt like him. We were at the dog park once and a dog took offense to Riley. The dog wouldnt let Riley move or play with any other dogs without this dog having a barking fit in his face. This really shut Ry down, and i was very mad at the owner for doing nothing with his bullying dog.
The trainer should of done something else, or at least moved you away once class started. In classes a few times we had to move away from other dogs in the class. I just do a heel circle and go to the back of the line, or butt in where there is more space. I have No problems moving me and my dog away from other!

Sorry, long rant. At least you wont have to go back again, but you will be able to stand up for you and Jas if you do! I do love taking classes, and puppy K is so fun!
 
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