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Maybelline (standard poodle) Beaumont (English Mastiff
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,
She is a 10 week old Poodle puppy. This is our first poodle. We've had labs and English mastiffs previously. We also have a 6 month old Mastiff that is currently house trained.
We're trying hard to potty train the new puppy but she is not like any other dog we've had.
We reward her for going outside, she squats to pee about every 2-4 minutes it seems like. I have not actually timed it and I am sleep deprived so I could be wrong.
When we bring her back inside, she almost immediately pees again.
Unless she's been asleep for an hour or so, hardly anything comes out when she does pee. After a nap, we see a puddle but generally if she's been up and playing, she pees quite often and quite often we're not sure anything even comes out, sometimes it seems like about a quarter sized little spot.
The only way I can prevent accidents is by watching her 100% of the time. 100% attention must be paid, as soon as you blink or look away, she pees. I've carefully watched too, it seems like she waits until I'm not looking and then does it.
It almost seems like she's trying to mark territory. Which I didn't figure a 10 week old puppy would do or even a female dog would do.
Sometimes if I accidentally doze, she will sneak off into some part of the house and I discover it later. She will sneak behind the couch or a table somewhere.

So is there some tips on house training I can garner?
I'm assuming these dogs must be different to house train than others?

Anyway, really would appreciate some advice.
Thanks so much,
B
 

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Sounds... Normal lol.

You're trying your best. We went through 6+ rolls of paper towels during our potty training stage. (Female, Spoo too)

Create a journal so you can track when her last pee is so you can get an idea to be proactive.

Also, keep in mind poodles are people pleasers. So, be over the top enthusiastic when puppy does something that makes Mom happy.

There's light at the end of the tunnel. Your furbaby just needs time for her bladder to get stronger and to be a big little girl.

You'll get a full night's sleep... In August.
 

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I suggest you take the puppy to a vet and describe to him/her how often the puppy tries to pee and the fact that sometimes does not produce urine. This sounds suspiciously like a bladder infection, so best to check it out.
 

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I agree about checking for a bladder infection. If you've been rewarding her for each pee, she might also be learning that more pee attempts outside means more treats. I think Ian Dunbar has guidance on "paying more" for longer pees that empty the bladder.
 

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I’m going through potty training with my 4 month old puppy. This does not sound normal and I too recommend getting your puppy to the vet ASAP because this does seem to be urinary tract infection (UTI).

UTI that are not treated quickly and completely can move up to infect the kidneys making it more difficult to treat and more harmful to the pet.

My female minipoo pee marks, but this doesn’t seem like pee marking. When she marks it’s because she has searched for and found a great smell to respond too. Her nose is on the ground, she’s sniffing, it’s clear she will then very intentionally pee. When she’s pee marking, she is very careful where she is directing her pee, it looks different from when we go out to potty in the morning and her bladder is full and she just quickly squats to releive herself. It’s not a pattern, she may pee, then pee 10 minutes later, or she may pee and find another spot 30 minutes later.

Poodles as a breed are known to be easy to potty train, especially minis and spoos.

Do clean areas with dilute vinegar or an enzyme product or you may find both your dogs drawn to potty in those areas.

Lastly (((hugs))). Those first few days and early weeks are tough. You know from your mastiff puppy it will get easier soon.
 

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I, too, had a female marker and it was very deliberate. Although I guess it’s possible she’s marking everywhere your mastiff pup had previous accidents?

Nevertheless, I’d get her checked out.

I’d also start keeping some notes on her potty times, because everything does become a blur in those early days. If you write down every time she potties, ideally with additional notes like food, naps, etc., you may see a pattern emerge.
 

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I agree it might be worth checking for a bladder infection if she is squatting non-productively. Puppies also vary. My boy Pogo was a prodigy, pretty much fully housebroken at 4 months apart from submissive piddling. His brother Snarky was a little less reliable until 6 months, but I could trust him too if I had just seen him go outside. My current boy Galen was just terrible. He would poop outside and poop inside five minutes later. He could pee twice outside, do a lap around the living room and then take a leak on the carpet. It happened so fast I didn't even see him setting up. He seemed to have no clue he even needed to go until he went. Just bombs away, instant damp spot. At 5 1/2 months I was sure I was going to be keeping him crated until he was a year old. Then, suddenly, he just got it. Starting some time around 6 months he just seemed to figure out the drill and stopped peeing in the house.
 

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Maybelline (standard poodle) Beaumont (English Mastiff
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I agree about checking for a bladder infection. If you've been rewarding her for each pee, she might also be learning that more pee attempts outside means more treats. I think Ian Dunbar has guidance on "paying more" for longer pees that empty the bladder.
That thought crossed my mind. I've noticed that right after she pees outside, even if its a few drops, she is immediately expecting a treat. Sometimes looking at me as she starts to setup into position.
The thought of rewarding more for longer pees, which do occur. Right after a nap or sleep, I take her outside and when she pees, its a puddle.
So that makes me think there is no obstruction and there is no strong smell either.
 

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Maybelline (standard poodle) Beaumont (English Mastiff
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I, too, had a female marker and it was very deliberate. Although I guess it’s possible she’s marking everywhere your mastiff pup had previous accidents?
Yeah outside on the lawn, she does a circuit. She walks around, nose in the turf constantly. Then will stop, circle once and squat. Then look at me for the expected treat.
That seemed like marking. But I am very new to this breed.
 

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That thought crossed my mind. I've noticed that right after she pees outside, even if its a few drops, she is immediately expecting a treat. Sometimes looking at me as she starts to setup into position.
The thought of rewarding more for longer pees, which do occur. Right after a nap or sleep, I take her outside and when she pees, its a puddle.
So that makes me think there is no obstruction and there is no strong smell either.
It is still worth having her checked, but, per Dunbar, I suggest paying really well - like 8-10 treat bits - when she does a big pee after waking up and don't reward her (or don't reward as much) for tiny pees. If she pees inside and you get her outside and she finishes peeing or pees again, don't reward. Our current dog trainer doesn't do food rewards for peeing at all because they say it can encourage the mini-pee for treat thing, though we never found to be an issue (and weren't with them when Oona was in the potty training stage). Instead I think they encourage you to be boring and stand in one spot with the pup on leash until they pee, and then you can be interesting and play as the reward. Your puppy is still really little. It will get better and she will figure it out.
 

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Maybelline (standard poodle) Beaumont (English Mastiff
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I will definitely get her checked out. In fact, I had a mini exam done for her when she got her 2nd set of shots. I asked about this very issue.
The Vet told me I'll need to get a urine sample. That will be very very difficult.
She is very small, I'm not small. I have old knees.
This would require me to be at the ready with some sort of cup to capture it in, the pee is originating about 2 inches off the ground.
So this is something I can't figure out how I'd do.
 

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Yeah outside on the lawn, she does a circuit. She walks around, nose in the turf constantly. Then will stop, circle once and squat. Then look at me for the expected treat.
That seemed like marking. But I am very new to this breed.
I recommend sticking closely to Dunbar’s method:


Have you read his book, Before and After Getting Your Puppy? If not, I’d suggest quickly reading it:

Also available online for free:



Poodles are soooo wildly smart and sensitive. You’re constantly training your puppy whether you realize it or not. :)
 

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If it helps at all, when Oona had a sudden UTI at not much older than that, when she was not sleeping she was trying to pee almost constantly unless distracted. It was clear that something was up as this behavior was not usual for her. I wasn't able to get a sample from her since by the time we packed up to get her to the vet, barely anything was coming out when she peed, but the vets were able to get enough from her when she attempted to go in the clinic that they were able to test and indeed it was a UTI. I think she was on antibiotics for 2 weeks, but she was feeling much better and peeing more normally within 24 hours. So it doesn't always take a long time to resolve (if your pup even has a UTI, which maybe she doesn't)
 

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Catching a urine sample is always tricky for a dog but you can rig up something to stick under her to collect it which involves minimum bending.

You might need to be creative but you might have something in the house already. A plastic kitchen spoon that has nice size scoop will work...use the handle to stick the scoop part under your dog once you see the stream. Or tape a stick onto a small container that can be pushed into place. This isn’t a sterile sample, but with an eye or even better a microscopic you can see white blood cells or bits of blood indicating a UTI. For a true sterile sample you need a sterile container or the vet can insert a needle into the bladder which was done on one of my cats (Cystocentesis) or they can use a catheter.

If you think it’s a training problem with treats, changing your approach to treats should make a difference.
 

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Standard Poodle (arriving April 21st !!)
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Hi,
She is a 10 week old Poodle puppy. This is our first poodle. We've had labs and English mastiffs previously. We also have a 6 month old Mastiff that is currently house trained.
We're trying hard to potty train the new puppy but she is not like any other dog we've had.
We reward her for going outside, she squats to pee about every 2-4 minutes it seems like. I have not actually timed it and I am sleep deprived so I could be wrong.
When we bring her back inside, she almost immediately pees again.
Unless she's been asleep for an hour or so, hardly anything comes out when she does pee. After a nap, we see a puddle but generally if she's been up and playing, she pees quite often and quite often we're not sure anything even comes out, sometimes it seems like about a quarter sized little spot.
The only way I can prevent accidents is by watching her 100% of the time. 100% attention must be paid, as soon as you blink or look away, she pees. I've carefully watched too, it seems like she waits until I'm not looking and then does it.
It almost seems like she's trying to mark territory. Which I didn't figure a 10 week old puppy would do or even a female dog would do.
Sometimes if I accidentally doze, she will sneak off into some part of the house and I discover it later. She will sneak behind the couch or a table somewhere.

So is there some tips on house training I can garner?
I'm assuming these dogs must be different to house train than others?

Anyway, really would appreciate some advice.
Thanks so much,
B
You didn't mention anything about if you are using a crate or exercise pen (x-pen) in her training. Are you? They really do help in peeing, pooping, and chewing training.
 

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The reward for peeing outside can be something other than a food treat. It could be you saying "Good, good, come along" and running away. It could also be a leash clipped on going outside the yard for a minute or so. You need to keep her outside and running around anyway to make sure she's empty.
 

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Some ideas here on getting a sample that should do for any size poodle puppy:
(10) Getting a urine sample from a toy poodle | Poodle Forum

94Magna_Tom has a good thought. It does sound like she's got free rein thru the living space. If you're not directly engaged with her for playing, training, exercise, then her full freedom still needs to be earned. She's far too young to know what's allowed and what's safe, and you could use the break too :).
 

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Maybelline (standard poodle) Beaumont (English Mastiff
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You didn't mention anything about if you are using a crate or exercise pen (x-pen) in her training. Are you? They really do help in peeing, pooping, and chewing training.
Well yeah, we were letting her have free reign. So we bought a 60" Puppy Play Pen.
We started out putting her on the bed with us, she had a towel over a thick rubber pad. But I couldn't sleep because she wanted to toddle around on the bed and was getting curious.
So we tried crating her. OMG. The dramatic crying from that crate sounded like she was being tortured by the Taliban.
At someones suggestion, we got this product called a "Snuggle Puppy". Its a little stuffed dog, that you put a warming device into and this small device that has a heart beat. Runs on a couple of AAA batts.
We put her in there and for about 25 minutes she cried her tortured cry and then she quieted down and slept for a long time.
So that has helped us immensely to get through the night but she starts crying at about 3:30AM and my wife takes her out. There usually is a long pee then.

Now about the pen.
How should I use that with respect to her training?
I keep thinking she's just gonna constantly pee in there.
I need a few tips on how best to use the play pen for her training.
I'm clueless there.

Thanks everyone for all the advice,
B
 

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You didn't mention anything about if you are using a crate or exercise pen (x-pen) in her training. Are you? They really do help in peeing, pooping, and chewing training.
I'll add a photo of PTP's setup until you see this and add yours :)

Should add that we actively taught her to love it in there. We gave her loads of things to chew, shred, and play with. She was never expected to just sit quietly in a sterile space. Her pen was always a bit of a puppy wonderland.

475989


Now about the pen.
How should I use that with respect to her training?
Set up the pen area with zones.

1/ If you don't have urineproof floors, somewhere like Home Depot or Lowes sells inexpensive vinyl flooring precut sections for around $25. Put this under the pen.

Tarkett 6-Ft x 8-Ft Sheet Vinyl Assorted Styles in the Sheet Vinyl (Pre-Cut) department at Lowes.com

2/ Put her food and water in there in one area
3/ Put a crate or crate mat (very washable for that) in another area
4/ Put a pee pad in another area if you need to leave her unsupervised
5/ Put some toys in there

You're creating a hang out space for her. The "training" is a lot about keeping her safe but in sight when you can't be giving her full attention. She'll learn, with help, how to settle down and be okay being around but not underfoot.

At her age now and for quite a while yet she'll need as much as 20 hours of sleep a day. If you've had or been around children, you know that overwrought state when they're tired and don't know it? Same thing with puppies.

If you have the space to attach a crate to the pen, or if it will fit inside, that's a start with crate training. I's something of a misconception that dogs are den animals. That's true only for birth and those very vulnerable early weeks. Most need to be taught that having a cozy, quiet space to retreat to is a good thing. Cover the crate with a blanket if you're not already doing that.

Start with short sessions. Toss a treat or a favorite toy in. Hopefully she'll go in and get it. Keep trying in short sessions. When she does go in, don't close the door, let her come right back out.
Build on that. If she'll go in pretty readily, close the door for a second then open it right back up.
Do you have a Kong toy that can be stuffed with kibble (part of her daily portion of food) to occupy her while in the pen or crate? Or peanut butter (no xylitol), maybe plain yogurt, which can be frozen in the Kong to occupy her longer.

I think you can see the idea here, very small steps, build on success.

Others will drop by with much better descriptions and methods, but this is a start.
 

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I need a few tips on how best to use the play pen for her training.
I'm clueless there.
Bits and pieces of advice are wonderful, but honestly - read the book I linked above. It’s like a poodle puppy user manual. :) It’s an easy read, and you’ll get a much clearer picture of how to go about this whole process.

Currently you should be proactively taking your puppy out to pee, not letting her wake you up in the middle of the night. This will not only prevent accidents, it establishes clear rules: The humans decide when puppies wake up.

Just make sure she has 24/7 access to fresh water, even while confined. A small bedtime snack (just a bit of her usual food) is also good for soothing nighttime bellies and ensuring good sleep.
 
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