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Discussion Starter #23
Thank you all for your support. It is good to know that there are so many people who understand. The vet is giving me 1mg prednidale to make it easier to reduce the dose slightly "but it will mean two tablets instead of one". I told him Poppy woud be delighted - an extra chunk of chicken! It does help that so far the disease has not impinged on her quality of life - she is happy and hungry and full of bounces at the prospect of treats, and completely oblivious to any problems. I, on the other hand, live with the clutch of anxiety at every sign of possible lethargy, or tummy upset, or wobbliness - is it a turn for the worse, or something minor and unconnected. It is something that will be familiar to all who love elderly animals, or those with chronic conditions...
 

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I too was hoping for more promising news but there's still much to look forward to. Poppy will bounce and chase as only Poppy can, with a joy in life we should all be so lucky to live.
 

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I am very sorry that your'e going through this. I was talking to one of my friends just yesterday who has a standard poodle from the same litter as ours. Both her poodle and ours are going through issues. Her dog's liver enzymes were elevated, she found that the supplement Sam-E could help. She started giving it to her dog and says that her fur daughter is doing much better and has gained weight and eating well. I just wanted share, in case if it helps.My friend's poodle's ALT was v close to 1000, not sure about Poppy's numbers, just want to put it our there. Good luck and wish you both the best.
 

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Poppy’s test results are now in, and there is no real improvement, so we are dealing with chronic liver failure. It was the most probable outcome, but one always hopes for another small miracle. Some elements are now within normal range, but others, including those from the bile acid stim test, are very high. The vet reckons the diarrhoea she has had recently could be because of her liver or could be sensitive tummy, so we will try a few days of the paste and hope for improvement. He also recommends reducing the steroids fractionally, which I am hoping will help reduce the side effects. So no worse, but not as much better as I had hoped…

But, as he said, she is very happy, and that is the most important thing.

It all started here: Poppy still unwell
and continued here: Poppy liver failure - goodish news
Sorry to have missed this post, I haven’t received the alert :(
You mentioned that slim test included a high fat meal. I know in people, such test is to check the function of gallbladder. But the high fat meal could definitely cause diarrhea and more.
Try not to loose hope. It’s sad truth about chronic liver failure, but Poppy is of wise age and still trying to keep on her own. You are trying to help her, Poppy senses that and is trying to be optimistic. I’m sure I’m not alone, who sends prayers and positive energy to you and both girls. Hang on dear!
 

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I am hoping we can manage it for a reasonable length of time. It is a balancing act - the liver regenerates, so if the regeneration can keep pace with deterioration, and anything that causes further damage avoided, she could have a good quality of life for quite a long time. She has been far better in the last few months than I would have dared to hope back in January, so we will keep on keeping on. She is 11 years old, which is not old for a toy but means she has already had a good life. I will do everything I can to make however long we have, whether it be months or years, equally happy. Time enough to grieve when there is no more to be done. But some sadness is inevitable - she has been so well that I hoped for more positive news.
FJM,
Your hopes for better news were only natural. Based on what you described, Poppy was truly doing as good as could’ve been expected. You’ve had some pretty goodish times together. If she looks happy, then she is. Having dogs, we all know, that even with the healthiest ones, anything can go wrong at any time, just like with people. It’s sad that the vet pronounced her diagnosis. Often, not knowing is a bliss. But you are the only one, who knows. If you can manage not to let on ( cause dogs sense our moods; sometimes it feels like they can read our minds), which is a toll order to achieve, Poppy will continue being happy. Look at her and absorb each happy moment, each happy day. You are much stronger than it feels at the moment. You need each other, and Sofie with Slim, need both of you. Write to all of us or to someone to n particular; don’t hold your sadness inside. Write about anything you feel or experience, every day. I’m sure quite a few of us will be glad to support both of you with our thoughts, prayers and good wishes. Sometimes, when you share things with someone or others, things don’t feel as bad or as sad. We’ll keep on keeping you, keeping going on.
Tender hugs to you, girls and Slim.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Thanks Suchi - my vets put her onto a Sam-E supplement back when it all began in January, and she has been on it ever since. It is more than possibly one of the things that is keeping her so well, and I too would highly recommend it. Poppy's is Denamarin, which contains both Sam-E and silybin.

The diarrhoea was not clearing (and I am sure you are right Mick - a non-functionng bile system, a high fat meal and stress would be enough to trigger it in anyone), so I took her over to the vets yesterday afternoon and picked up metronidazole and more digestive paste. It was pouring with rain, and the poor vets were getting soaked giving advice and reassurance to all us owners who stayed safe and dry inside our cars. I felt I should offer them my pop up gazebo...

Meanwhile Poppy is bouncing with joy - more scrummy medicine! And I am more relaxed now that I have processed the news. A very wise neighbour has a mantra: "It is what it is, and we will deal with it", and that is what I shall do, continuing to make every day as happy as possible.
 

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Thanks Suchi - my vets put her onto a Sam-E supplement back when it all began in January, and she has been on it ever since. It is more than possibly one of the things that is keeping her so well, and I too would highly recommend it. Poppy's is Denamarin, which contains both Sam-E and silybin.

The diarrhoea was not clearing (and I am sure you are right Mick - a non-functionng bile system, a high fat meal and stress would be enough to trigger it in anyone), so I took her over to the vets yesterday afternoon and picked up metronidazole and more digestive paste. It was pouring with rain, and the poor vets were getting soaked giving advice and reassurance to all us owners who stayed safe and dry inside our cars. I felt I should offer them my pop up gazebo...

Meanwhile Poppy is bouncing with joy - more scrummy medicine! And I am more relaxed now that I have processed the news. A very wise neighbour has a mantra: "It is what it is, and we will deal with it", and that is what I shall do, continuing to make every day as happy as possible.
Forgive my questions, but I didn’t hear on this site de of the pond about Poppy’s Sam-E, and it’s ingredients, nor have I heard of or know about the digestive paste. If and when you are able to explain, I’d appreciate it. Maybe it’s a EU meds. or I just never heard of it in US. Your neighbor‘s mantra is the same as my brother’s. But till you must deal with it, try to enjoy Poppy’s bouncing joy, even if it’s about yummy medicine or asking for a bit more food. Her sunny personality, might carry both of you for a quite a while. There are times I wish people were more like dogs. One day at a time, just like you’ve done since January, but look how far you’ve gone! Whatever you are doing for her, works. She trusts and love you, she’ll try to fight it as far and long as this little bounce of happiness can. Warmest thoughts about both of you and a prayer. Will try to be on the look out for your posts.
 

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Discussion Starter #32

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This is the supplement she is on: Denamarin The digestive paste is one of many similar preparations - this one is typical: LOGIC Firm Digestive Support for Cats and Small Dogs: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

I am always wary of using OTC preparations like this for more than a day or two except under veterinary advice, lest they mask symptoms of some serious underlying problem, but they can be a useful standby to have in the cupboard.
Thank you very much for your time, providing the information.
My Sasha is standard poodle and turned 10 at the end of April. I still can’t believe it. It seems like we just brought this 11 mos. old, dog for a trial of adaption, but as it turned out, we saved from psychological and a form of physical abuse. Her playmate, identical peach color, miniature, wasn’t as lucky. The owner didn’t give her up for an adaption, but left her with an irresponsible, young relative, who left the house door open and, as the result, dog ran out on the street and was killed by a car. Sasha has her share of psychological issues (scared of everything, skittish, severe separation anxiety, and possible depression, since I became disabled). Per vet’s recommendation, we use Composure Pro chewables, by Vetri Science Pro Line, available on Amazon.com. It helps to a degree. But with anxiety, come gastric issues, plus her allergies to chicken, salmon, and any anti-inflammatorues, also display as gastro symptoms.
She can’t tolerate neither anti-flea topicals, nor heart guard, without having to take Carafate before and after each of the preparations. But the worst problem is she also gets sevacuous cysts and multiple warts. I can deal with the cysts, but warts are stubborn and growing more. Our vet recommends ONLY surgical cauterization, but that requires sedation, which for 10 yrs. standard isn’t safe, cost is prohibitive, but removing existing ones, doesn’t prevent the next batch from growing.
I tried to dry them up with Iodine tincture. The upper portion dries, but the bottom, from inside the skin continue growing. I tried Vick’s and highly recommended Vit. E, but neither one helps. Thank you again, for the detailed information. If it’s available only on Amazon.uk.com, I may not be able to purchase it, but w/try to find out and discussit with our vet. Big hug to you, girls and Slim.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Yes, Poppy's sebaceous cysts/warts are getting bigger. Vet checked them and said just to leave them alone, so although they are unattractive I don't worry about them any more.

Poor Sasha sounds to have had a difficult time - how lucky he was to have found you, and now be loved and understood. And I know just what you mean about the years flying - Poppy is the baby of the family, and suddenly she is 11 - how did that happen?!
 

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Hugs to you and Poppy...this hits close to home as I lost my 14 year old goldendoodle in January due to a slow growing liver tumor. She was diagnosed Sept 2019 and it was a shock as her symptoms were weight loss, confusion/anxiety when the daily schedule wasn't followed and some shakiness in the hind end - all normal senior symptoms. Still had normal (even increased) appetite, tons of energy and interest in everything otherwise. We just took what time we had to make her final days/months special for her as she was the Best Dog Ever.

One thing I did do for her right after diagnosis was give her Milk Thistle supplements - 3 150 mg capsules with 60% silymarin each day. That really helped with the confusion (because the toxins the liver would normally take care of don't flush out, they build up in the brain) and the hind end shakiness. She even gained a bit of weight back. I highly recommend it - not a cure but help with symptom management. Becausebof it, we got to have 4 great months together.

We lost the battle in late January when the tumor metastasized to her nasal cavity and she started bleeding from her nose but she had great appetite and energy right until the 2nd last day. We had a wonderful caring mobile vet come and she passed peacefully at home with her doodle sister and best cat friend.

Long way of saying - try the milk thistle, it does help.

I hope you get the same opportunity to give your loving companion Poppy some wonderful final days and memories you can carry forever. ❤ It was a bittersweet time for me but one I cherish.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Thanks PixieDust. Poppy is on Denamarin, which includes silybin/silymarin - good to know you found it effective. I have noticed rear end ditheriness and weakness, which I had hoped were down to the steroids, but with this latest set of results fear it may be neurological from the toxins. But for now she is happy, eating well, and managing not too strenuous walks - there is much to be grateful for.
 

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Yes, Poppy's sebaceous cysts/warts are getting bigger. Vet checked them and said just to leave them alone, so although they are unattractive I don't worry about them any more.

Poor Sasha sounds to have had a difficult time - how lucky he was to have found you, and now be loved and understood. And I know just what you mean about the years flying - Poppy is the baby of the family, and suddenly she is 11 - how did that happen?!
Sasha is a female :)
Not knowing any better at 4 mos, when the original owners got her, having mature miniature in the house, Sasha learned from the miniature, and had to be #2, for food, water, attention. They had her for total of 7 months. But when the fluffy puppy turned into teenager and became bigger than miniature, but jumping up as miniature, the owners were locking her in a wire cage type kennel, inside walk in closet. She never walks into the dark room, never, even with the snacks and training, will attempt to open an ajar door or try to walk through it. She’s been 9 with us, but still thinks she is a miniature dog.
The townhome where we adopted her from, had Snow White carpets, with 2 dogs living there; how’s that possible? Sasha had no idea how to walk the stairs, never being allowed to go upstairs.
She took to training like the duck to the water, but the fears that were instilled, we can’t erase. Our first standard was black. We got her from a breeder, who interviewed us, taught us a lot about care for standards and even recommended the trainer, who came over and helped wit the basic commands. The first standard was black and almost the complete opposite personality of Sasha. She was my girl-ftriend, especially, when I first got injured. I guess, now, that Sasha is 10, I’m becoming more anxious and more attuned to her age-related symptoms.
Thank you for listening and understanding.
 

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Darn, I had hoped for something easily fixable, as I am sure you had also. I can tell there is so much love between you. I am so very glad you have each other.
 

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I'm so sorry to read this update, FJM, it wasn't the news any of us hoped for. You must have been heartbroken leaving the vet. But as I read through your posts, I can see your resilience over the week, as you adjusted to the news. And Poppy, of course, only knows she gets more delicious food and, I'm guessing, a little extra attention.
 
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