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Discussion Starter #1
and i need support and assistance in telling the groomer what I want done.

Temperance is an almost 7 month black standard and i'm taking her in for her first full groom on thursday. She's starting into a bit of her coat change and it's pretty hot here too. (high 80s lately).
so i guess it's time.

I"ve posted on this here http://www.poodleforum.com/9-poodle-grooming/7491-help-me-decide-good-look-temperance.html and i love poppy's look (and poodle lovers females bell bottoms!)
I am having mourning over losing her puppy coat, but she's so hot and I know that. and she loves playing outside and we don't stay inside in ac here.

I am leaning towards either a bikini or a modified hcc with a really, really short jacket. (this is based on a pic i've seen on flickr of a dog called bambi and i love that look and if not this time, then we'll move towards that).. or is it something that would work with a puppy and coat change???? here's the link to the pic: Bambi on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

i've posted this pic before, but you can see what her coat is now


i don't want to go too short ... so i'd love you all to help me let the groomer know what i want/need. length wise. definitely short face and feet tho.

i do NOT want her ears trimmed (maybe inside cleaned) i do NOT want her topnot cut as i'd love it to grow out. but i can understand trying to keep it out of her eyes. we're not going for a show coat ... i just like the top long!

the reason i'm a bit worrywart is my sister took her spoo baby to have fft and the groomer trimmed her ear length and her top not some. she was really upset and she'd said not to.

anyway, i have to step away from computer for a bit, but please help me work on how to word this. she's a really nice woman and has done my cairns for years and she does breed standards so is familar with them

and if i'm being melodramatic, just say so.

in a nice way :wacko:
 

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I would print of poppys picture and tell them you want a miami trim done and have that as a reference.

I would also tell them you want the body left slightly longer, perhaps with a guard comb. If you brought that dog into me with poppys photo I would not touch the ears/topknot (general rule for groomer is don't touch ears/head on a poodle unless told to do so..although I usually ask). I would probably use a 1 wahl guard on the body which is 1/2'' or the 0 guard which is a 5/8''. Your groomer may not have the wahl snap on combs so you can always tell them the specific size..although I think even plastic combs have "0 snaps" and "1 snaps" that's what i've always called them and it should be the same length..you just get a better finish I think..with the wahl combs.

Specifically tell your groomer to leave the ears and topknot alone..i would make it well known..that way they have no reason to come back and say that you didn't tell them.

You could even write down what you want before you leave and give it to the groomer! That way you don't forget anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thank you. i'll make notes and i'll print up a pic too. i emailed her some shots so she'd know and when i called today she said she hadn't checked her email ... i sent them last week.
:(

i am not doing my wednesday market tomorrow, so i think i'll take the poof in.
 

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The groomer is in for a challenge. Yikes, I would be very scared of messing up if I were your groomer and you were trying me for the 1st time. I see body coat that is MUCH TOO LONG....but I have a feeling that you wouldn't really want to pay me what I charge to DEMAT enough to get a guard comb thru it. I might have to go less than 1/2 " on that body.

NEXT I see the ankles of your dog. They are extremely tapered...which means I can't get a nice column leg. It will resemble a piano leg (thicker at the top and small at the bottom)...very unflattering. I would try to make it the same width at the bottom and remove all excess as I work toward the top of the leg. STILL, you wind up with a pretty slender leg. AND that's if the hocks and front legs aren't matted.

The topknot is NOT as full as the rest of the body...the topknot has a different texture than the body coat....it looks softer and seems to lay flatter. In order to STACK the hair to give a rise to that topknot, some of the sides of the topknot ought to be removed. However, if you tell the groomer NOT to trim the topknot, you will end up with a pancake in 2-3 weeks times. Also not too flattering.

Black poodles tend to grow the most profuse hair INSIDE the ears. Thankfully you are allowing THAT to be trimmed and by trimmed, I would shave the inside close to the ear opening and halfway down the inside pinna.

The tail is already shaved too far down. But you can let that grow and minimize the LOOK of being incorrect by taking off the tip of the tail.

The hair on the bottom of the ribcage should fall no lower than the point of the elbow. ALOT of chest and ribcage would come off... and to shorten the length of her back, you would make the tuck-up LOOK as if its directly in the middle of the dogs lower body. Most would put the tuck-up in its natural position. NO NO.

I really encourage poodle owners not to WAIT till this age. I would prefer to work with a young dog and grow it INTO a pretty groom, rather than get a poofball and try to transform it into a topiary poodle. This is much harder. Also this is the "wild child" age. The adolescent poodle is wiggly and has a short attention span and everything makes them turn to the right or the left....just as the groomers scissors are ready to cut. OOOpps, theres a divet or chunk missing and now you have to correct it.

Personally I love the challenge and THATS what this is. Your dog is a challenge and a great groomer can transform it into a fairly regal, balanced and symmetrical poodle. An average groomer can give it skinny legs, a flat head and a long back. I am totally in agreement about taking photos IN with you. I can follow a picture but I can't read your mind. PLUS you as the owner MUST be realistic....if your coat is going thru coat change and you don't have time to comb, your worst matted areas might be shaved out leaving the coat ALOT shorter than you anticipated. You might see some skin. No need to have a heart attack. It will grow back. This is all temporary and as your dog nears its 2nd birthday, the coat will be what it is..the change is over and you can request any haircut in the universe. Up until that time, its not always a precise science.

My motto is....good dogs get great haircuts. Bad dogs get choppy haircuts.
 

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I wasn't sure if that was matted or just curly. If it's matted I would honestly tell the groomer to shave as short as needed. I've worked in a grooming shop that does a lot of dematting, saw how miserable the process is for the animals and I rarely do dematting unless I can do so without causing discomfort to the animal. I'd shave it with a 5 or 7 and send them home feeling fantastic.

When I was busy dealing with my fathers funeral and everything..i spent maybe 10 days at my parents.. my boyfriend tried to bathe and keep the poodles in good shape..he also took them out swimming almost daily. I came home to a matted mess and ended up stripping him!



It might not be flattering..but he's comfortable! I did a 7 on his back and a 4 on his legs.
 

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Wow.. um.. P2P... was all that really necessary? :\ I don't think the whole detailing of what a "challenge" her dog would be for you to groom is very appropriate for the topic.

.. Anyway, I think as long as you bring in a photo and are clear with the groomers of what you want (and take into account that there may be complications, such as mats or not enough hair, your dog my look a bit strange at first, but will grow into a trim). But you said you trust this groomer, and she is familiar with poodles, so I think your baby will look fine. :) Don't worry too much!!

Personally, I think a HCC would look awesome on her, kind of like Bambi's, but keep in mind she doesn't have much ear/tk/leg hair yet, so it will be kind of awkward for a bit while she grows into it, same with the miami. But the body is long enough to shape into a short, but nice little jacket. :) Do you keep up with brushing a lot? If so, then I think the HCC is an awesome choice. If you don't brush much, then a bikini/miami may be better for now, to help you for the coat change and in case all that hair on her body is tangled.
I say, if you want to keep a good amount of hair, brush her body and legs THOROUGHLY (with a comb and etc, make sure her hair is knot-free) before bringing her in to ensure the groomers don't have to do too much dematting or any of that, as they'll probably have to shave her real close if she's matted.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
to partial to poodles:
she's not matted up. i just brushed and combed her a few minutes ago. i brush her several times a week and follow up with a greyhound comb.

should i have posted a pic of her just brushed so you can see that she' is a not a matted mess? i can go try to get one except she's asleep. this picture shows about the length of her coat which is why i posted it. my other shots are usually of her wrestling with a labrador or head shots.

i am taking her in before the coat change so that she doesn't get all matted up.

i've been taking her to the same groomer since she was 6 weeks old and they've been doing her face feet & tail and tummy. she's the one that said it was okay to wait til she was about this age before cutting off the puppy hair.

are you frustrated because i am a a lay dog owner and not a professional?
 

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I don't think P2P was meaning any harm..as a groomer she's probably seen a lot of matted dogs..and I can see in the pic how it can look matted.

I'd never know until I ran my fingers through it. Also, i've met some poodles who literally come in every 8 weeks without ever seeing a brush in between, they LOOK terrible but EVERYTHING comes out in the bath/blow dry because they have such an amazing coat to work with that all the tangles just come right out quite easily.

In any case if it turns out she's matted just remember that it's hair and it will grow back. A lot of first time poodle owners will do lots of brushing but only get the top layer. It does happen, but hey..if I see that happening I usually work on some dematting without charging..just because I like to see someone trying..and it takes a lot of work to properly care for a poodle coat! Especially if you don't happen to be a dog groomer.

So kudos for brushing and combing. You are already doing what 90% of my customers refuse to do!

She doesn't look in horrible shape..but like I said..i'd never know till I felt the dog..so just trust your groomers judgement and if it turns out they suggest shaving just go with it. Hair grows back incredibly fast during the summer.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Wow.. um.. P2P... was all that really necessary? :\ I don't think the whole detailing of what a "challenge" her dog would be for you to groom is very appropriate for the topic.

.. Anyway, I think as long as you bring in a photo and are clear with the groomers of what you want (and take into account that there may be complications, such as mats or not enough hair, your dog my look a bit strange at first, but will grow into a trim). But you said you trust this groomer, and she is familiar with poodles, so I think your baby will look fine. :) Don't worry too much!!

Personally, I think a HCC would look awesome on her, kind of like Bambi's, but keep in mind she doesn't have much ear/tk/leg hair yet, so it will be kind of awkward for a bit while she grows into it, same with the miami. But the body is long enough to shape into a short, but nice little jacket. :) Do you keep up with brushing a lot? If so, then I think the HCC is an awesome choice. If you don't brush much, then a bikini/miami may be better for now, to help you for the coat change and in case all that hair on her body is tangled.
I say, if you want to keep a good amount of hair, brush her body and legs THOROUGHLY (with a comb and etc, make sure her hair is knot-free) before bringing her in to ensure the groomers don't have to do too much dematting or any of that, as they'll probably have to shave her real close if she's matted.
i am aware that my puppy is just that, a puppy and has a while before she will look right. i am trying to get a nice cut on her to as she transitions into her adult coat. this is why i was looking at the miami and/or the modified hcc with short jacket.

btw, temperance has always had a coat that i'll brush and comb and she'll poof (hence her nickname) and about 10 minutes later she's curly again.

my sister has a spoo puppy who has really long straight slightly wavy hair.

oh and if the groomer thinks cleaning up the topknot a bit will help as she grows, then i'll be okay with that. i just don't want it short, nor the ears. i do love her long ears.
 

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Well then cool! :D Sounds like you're very dedicated with the brushing, so you'll probably be good to go.
All the groomers I know clean up a TK in the groom as a default, but they never take it short short unless the owner requests it. Just a bit of shaping up and making it look tidy. They surely won't touch it if you request they leave it alone.

Post pics when you get her hair cut!! I'd love to see how she turns out :) she's awfully cute.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
spoke w/ my groomer today. the email didn't go through so i am resending. she feels that we can work together to get temperance into a lovely clip as she grows into her adult coat.

sorry, for the enthusiasm. i feel thoroughly chastised.
 
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