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Discussion Starter #21
Well I put some feelers out today so here’s hoping!

God help me as soon as I say I’m going to research minis a great breeder of smaller spoos (who I’d contacted a while ago) tells me there’s a puppy available. Dying right now. Need to put the phone down...
 

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Well I put some feelers out today so here’s hoping!

God help me as soon as I say I’m going to research minis a great breeder of smaller spoos (who I’d contacted a while ago) tells me there’s a puppy available. Dying right now. Need to put the phone down...
If you like this puppy you can make it work. It might take more creativity and commitment to working out of the home, but it's definitely possible.
 

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Call me an enabler - but assuming the temperment was right, I would be all over the smaller spoo. It is possible to do if you have some green space and a long line nearby, or better yet do dog classes somewhere where there is play time (Annie needs running weekly minimum), and personally the only reason I have truly regretted having my spoo instead of a mini was the size difference between her and my mom's dog, and the amount of space she takes up in my small car or a canoe.

Or seriously, an older spoo of 2 +/breeder return might be ideal
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
Stop it both of you! I was supposed to be talked down here lol

I’m going to think about it a day or two. It’s very last minute to me so I don’t want to get caught up. The breeder says this puppy was originally supposed to be going to the US for breeding, but can’t now due to covid.

I don’t use a car so that part’s irrelevant! :D My building is by a lot of green space and an off leash area.
 

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Stop it both of you! I was supposed to be talked down here lol

I’m going to think about it a day or two. It’s very last minute to me so I don’t want to get caught up. The breeder says this puppy was originally supposed to be going to the US for breeding, but can’t now due to covid.

I don’t use a car so that part’s irrelevant! :D My building is by a lot of green space and an off leash area.
I live in a 450 sq ft house with a small yard. I have had dogs in it that were the size of a spoo, and to me the main difference is that it's hard to run training exercises with a larger dog when you don't have space, and it's also harder to play games like fetch and tug. I like that if Misha is feeling rowdy I can tire him out fairly well just playing games in our kitchen, but I find that hard to do with a bigger dog. I also live in a big city, so there is limited green space, and what green space we do have is always filled with other dogs. I've been lucky in that my dog is very dog friendly and has appropriate interactions with other dogs, but I would find it much more difficult with a reactive dog. I think your access to outside areas to train and for exercising will mediate limitations of housing. Just remember that's year round including when it's very cold. I can't handle the cold weather but that's why I live in the tropics lol.

I do appreciate being able to pick my dog up when needed, and it's easy to bring him places even if I need to take his crate. It's also nice that he doesn't take up too much space on the couch when we snuggle.

I do find that larger dogs are better about controlling their energy (though when they fail it's much worse!) and I think Misha gets overexcited very easily in ways that I rarely observe with larger dogs. I also would worry less about him getting hurt if he were bigger. I have to watch out when bigger dogs play with him so they won't play too rough. But I worried a lot more when he was a puppy than I do now. He's fairly sturdy now and is good about not getting in over his head with big dog play.
 

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I don’t use a car so that part’s irrelevant! :D My building is by a lot of green space and an off leash area.
i don’t take my dog to off leash parks...,my dog was chased by a Rottweiler who was in prey drive mode. If it wasn’t for the help of other people who helped me pick up my dog, she might have been severely injured or worse. The dog body slammed me to get to my dog. The woman with the Rottweiler was the mother of the owner of the dog and had no control nor did she care. Don’t count on being able to use an off leash place. It depends on the owners and temperament of the dogs using it. My dog happily plays with lots of dogs of all sizes. It wasn’t my dog, it was the Rottweiler.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
@Raindrops - thanks, that’s more to think about. I’m in 700 sq ft but that’s probably immaterial really for “exercising” a spoo. I’m happy to be out and about in cold weather (bundled up) unless it’s literally a blizzard outside. The only concern I’ve had is the excessive salt used in the city, which will necessitate little booties.

@Skylar - that sounds frightening! I’ve been to this area many times (it’s really more of an off leash park trail with a creek that dogs like to jump in) and the dogs seemed ok. It’s something I’d be nervous about with a smaller dog though since there’s no separation of areas by size.

Going to have a chat with the breeder. I’ve spent so long researching because I know once a dog (any dog) is in my place it’ll be game over and I’ll let it rule my life lol
 

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For Toronto salt, I used Pawz (the ones that look like deflated little foot balloons).

I landed on them after multiple episodes in which Gracie would collapse, crying with pain in a snowbank, because one of her Velcro booties had fallen off. I'd have to pick her up, retrace our steps, and inevitably find it in the middle of a busy intersection.

Toronto salt is no joke!
 

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Discussion Starter #29
@PeggyTheParti - thanks for the rec! I’ll add that brand to my supply list.

As an update, I did talk to the breeder who even though I wouldn’t be able to take this puppy, was more than happy to answer all my questions. I think I was intimidated by getting a spoo, but I’m more okay with the idea now. She had a clear idea of matching up puppy temperaments and had placed several in the city before in apartments. Her lines are from Europe so her spoos trend smaller. (Europe has a limit on standard sizes apparently?)

I’ll see what response I get from the mini breeders I contacted, but if the fall litter from this breeder comes through then I think I’m happy going with a smaller spoo from this breeder. :)
 

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After some time researching dog breeds I think I’m just about settled on a poodle pup, hopefully for sometime this year. What I still go back and forth on is size. So far I break it down to:

Mini: pros - size more acceptable for apartment living; still very athletic for a small breed; best travel size; adorable
cons - most minis in my neighbourhood tend towards high strung and I really value calm and non-barky; kind of looking for a dog to run with me, not sure how well a mini keeps up

Moyen: pros - happy medium size; can participate in more activity; impression that temperament trends more to what I’m looking for; adorable
cons - less travel friendly; not as apartment suited; so hard to legitimately find in Canada in addition to all the other criteria for a quality breeder

(small) Standard: the original size I fell in love with; easiest size to find a quality breeder for; active (putting it equal to moyen to fulfilling that requirement); am told they’re calmer ; adorable
cons - least suited for apartment; harder to travel with; a bit intimidated as I’ve never owned a larger dog

I think the final question it comes down to - if I’m going to err in one direction, which way should it be?
You are obviously a thoughtful person, and I am sure you will be a great poodle owner whatever you finally decide. I'm going to share our experiences with Charlie, our "King size" standard poodle. If you were to look up calm, mellow and friendly in a dictionary you'd see his photo.He is now 3 years old, 30 inches at the shoulder and 85 pounds. Until age 9 months, he lived in an apartment on the 7th floor in the city. I spent a lot of time hiking with him, and training him. He was one of the best behaved dogs in the building , waiting to enter or exit the elevator, sitting silently during the ride even if screaming kids or barking dogs were right next to him. We trained him not to bark, he would run to us, make a small coughing noise, nudge and stare into our faces if he heard noises in the hallway. He is a fabulous, calm air traveller, stepping into his crate without a fuss and happily greeting us at the other side of the country. By the time he was 1 year old, we started a lifestyle of constant RV travel, living off the grid in the Arizona desert for 3 months, then in the mountains of the British Columbia interior for 6 months, while Charlie calmly napped in the back seat of the pick up truck for over 100,000 kilometers of travel in 3 years. We also drove across the country with our trailer to Southern Ontario for 3 months life on a horse farm. A few "Leave its" were enough to deter him from chasing cats, loose geese or sheep. He has marched in a fall fair parade, gently nuzzling any children and persons in wheel chairs along the route, and regularly visits senior citizens. We currently divide our time between a little condo and a small travel trailer, and our big poodle is a quiet, happy resident of both.

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After some time researching dog breeds I think I’m just about settled on a poodle pup, hopefully for sometime this year. What I still go back and forth on is size. So far I break it down to:

Mini: pros - size more acceptable for apartment living; still very athletic for a small breed; best travel size; adorable
cons - most minis in my neighbourhood tend towards high strung and I really value calm and non-barky; kind of looking for a dog to run with me, not sure how well a mini keeps up

Moyen: pros - happy medium size; can participate in more activity; impression that temperament trends more to what I’m looking for; adorable
cons - less travel friendly; not as apartment suited; so hard to legitimately find in Canada in addition to all the other criteria for a quality breeder

(small) Standard: the original size I fell in love with; easiest size to find a quality breeder for; active (putting it equal to moyen to fulfilling that requirement); am told they’re calmer ; adorable
cons - least suited for apartment; harder to travel with; a bit intimidated as I’ve never owned a larger dog

I think the final question it comes down to - if I’m going to err in one direction, which way should it be?
Forgot to mention - Charlie the Poodle just ran over 10 kilometers with our daughter this afternoon. She's training for another 1/2 marathon and sets a fast pace. I bicycle for an hour a day with Charlie running alongside, as I cannot run far enough to challenge him. I snowshoe regularly in winter (nearby Revelstoke had 32 feet of snowfall last year) and Charlie loves it. If you are a serious athlete, a standard poodle will easily keep up with you

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I have a spoo in or at least part time in an apartment. If I were to do it agsin, I would consider a mini, but not because of apartmen living! I still would very likely end up with a spoo though. I would also try and go with a breeder that temperment tests and get a lower prey drive dog than i did. Puppy hood is definitely the hardest part to manage in an apartment, have you considered an adult spoo?

Cons of spoo:
  • When she plays inside, she has more weight on all paws, and is far louder when running and jumping. So had to teach her to mostly play on my bed, during the day, or outside. No indoor ball playing. Also rugs to muffle sound when she was old enouh not to pee on them.
  • Requires off leash running at least once a week to stay sane and wellbehaved. Dog parks are often not appropriate.
  • Cannot run or bike with her until at least age 1.5 due to potential damage to joints, so hard to find appropriate exercises.
  • Hard to fit in my car, takes up most of it, and all her stuff is bigger than stuff for a mini.
  • Takes up most of the middle of a canoe and often ends up sprawl on top of the packs.
  • Pee pad training isn't feasible, one pee ruins a pad. Litter box training worked well for puppy hod
  • Her crate takes up half my living room and is refered to as "the stable" by relatives.
  • Bark sounds scary, some people ae afraid of her (big black dog syndrome, also a pro)
  • A mini would have gotten along better with my mom's 11 lb dog with less stress
  • Minis would be easier to control on leash
Pros of spoo
  • I feel safer walking late at night in bad areas
  • I feel safer and am less worried about her when backcountry camping with her
  • Potty training is usually faster
  • No one sits next to me when I take her on public transit.
  • Not having to bend down or worry about stepping on her as much
  • I like big dogs, my 50 lb spoo seems small to me
I live in bear and cougar country, so my 85 pound standard poodle is a bonus. I, too, never worry about walking alone at night. Charlie has a deep bark, but prefers to stand tall and stare silently at strangers . He is black and 30" at the shoulder, and guess he looks really menacing from some of the reactions we've gotten.

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