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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
After some time researching dog breeds I think I’m just about settled on a poodle pup, hopefully for sometime this year. What I still go back and forth on is size. So far I break it down to:

Mini: pros - size more acceptable for apartment living; still very athletic for a small breed; best travel size; adorable
cons - most minis in my neighbourhood tend towards high strung and I really value calm and non-barky; kind of looking for a dog to run with me, not sure how well a mini keeps up

Moyen: pros - happy medium size; can participate in more activity; impression that temperament trends more to what I’m looking for; adorable
cons - less travel friendly; not as apartment suited; so hard to legitimately find in Canada in addition to all the other criteria for a quality breeder

(small) Standard: the original size I fell in love with; easiest size to find a quality breeder for; active (putting it equal to moyen to fulfilling that requirement); am told they’re calmer ; adorable
cons - least suited for apartment; harder to travel with; a bit intimidated as I’ve never owned a larger dog

I think the final question it comes down to - if I’m going to err in one direction, which way should it be?
 

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I have a minipoo who rarely barks. if someone rings the from door she runs to see who’s there, but doesn’t bark. It’s her running that alerts me. Mine is also not high strung, very friendly with people and dogs. She’s a sweetheart.

Quality breeders are breeding dogs with excellent temperament. You can’t show a high strung dog in conformation or participate in other dog sports. Look for a breeder who either titles her dog in a legitimate conformation organization or sports.

Minipoos are a great size because they only take one seat in a car. They usually don’t fit under the seat in an airplane unless they are on the small side.

I don’t run as a hobby so I can’t address whether a minipoo could keep up with you. Probably depends on how far and long you run. Mine is happy to go on 5 mile hikes.

good luck on your search
 

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Assuming the breeders are equally stellar, I would go with a mini instead of a spoo, simply because it increases your housing options if you need to move. A lot of landlords and condo associations only allow small dogs, under 30 pounds for instance.

Barkiness and temperament vary even within a size. My spoos Pogo and Snarky didn't start barking until they were young adults and only after they got exposed to other dogs that barked. (And then they learned to howl in harmony, lol.) My spoo puppy Galen, however, has been a yapper since I brought him home from the breeder.

Moyen is difficult. Everyone knows what the term means, but legitimate breeders tend not to use it since it's not an AKC/CKC size standard. It flags you as someone not aligned with the breed club.

An adult mini could certainly keep up with a casual exercise runner. If you are training for half marathons it might be a different story. You would want to watch out for overheating and paw damage. Dogs, being shorter than people, are closer to the radiant heat coming off the sidewalk and are also running barefoot. And, of course, you don't want to stress their joints while they are still growing.
 

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I have a mini and while I don’t run with him, he loves to go on walks. He is around 20 pounds so can’t travel under the seat of a plane. If you mean by travel going on flights, a mini is too big to fit. A toy would. If you mean traveling by car the mini is a great size for that. Mine is quite energetic and doesn’t like to be alone. He does bark a fair bit at sounds he hears and at squirrels and birds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I have a spoo in or at least part time in an apartment. If I were to do it agsin, I would consider a mini, but not because of apartmen living! I still would very likely end up with a spoo though. I would also try and go with a breeder that temperment tests and get a lower prey drive dog than i did. Puppy hood is definitely the hardest part to manage in an apartment, have you considered an adult spoo?

Cons of spoo:
  • When she plays inside, she has more weight on all paws, and is far louder when running and jumping. So had to teach her to mostly play on my bed, during the day, or outside. No indoor ball playing. Also rugs to muffle sound when she was old enouh not to pee on them.
  • Requires off leash running at least once a week to stay sane and wellbehaved. Dog parks are often not appropriate.
  • Cannot run or bike with her until at least age 1.5 due to potential damage to joints, so hard to find appropriate exercises.
  • Hard to fit in my car, takes up most of it, and all her stuff is bigger than stuff for a mini.
  • Takes up most of the middle of a canoe and often ends up sprawl on top of the packs.
  • Pee pad training isn't feasible, one pee ruins a pad. Litter box training worked well for puppy hod
  • Her crate takes up half my living room and is refered to as "the stable" by relatives.
  • Bark sounds scary, some people ae afraid of her (big black dog syndrome, also a pro)
  • A mini would have gotten along better with my mom's 11 lb dog with less stress
  • Minis would be easier to control on leash
Pros of spoo
  • I feel safer walking late at night in bad areas
  • I feel safer and am less worried about her when backcountry camping with her
  • Potty training is usually faster
  • No one sits next to me when I take her on public transit.
  • Not having to bend down or worry about stepping on her as much
  • I like big dogs, my 50 lb spoo seems small to me
 

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If you would like to bring your dog to hotels with you, or if you think there's any chance you might move, I'd go with a mini. I missed out on buying a dream place in Toronto because I had two mini mixes at the time, and the building had a "20 lb total" pet limit.

Now I have a house, but Peggy exceeds the 40 lb limit at many hotels.

It doesn't seem like a big deal until it is. We travelled across the country TWICE with our mini mix Gracie, with no problem finding hotels. And she was an excellent adventure buddy. I never took her on jogs (I don't know if jogging on pavement is something I'd regularly do with any dog), but she went on hikes of all kinds and I think she'd have loved trail running.

All that said......I don't really think of poodles as being "calm and non-barky." Peggy doesn't have the shrill yap of Gracie, but her bark is SCARY, making it no more desirable than a mini's voice for an apartment setting.

Do you have a second-choice breed?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
so many replies, thank you so much everyone!

In general, I suppose I’m seeing a lot more pros on the mini side, except for the running part. I’m not sure how I’d fit that with my runs, especially my longer one. Usually it’s 5–7 miles ~3x a week. Even without the running though, I usually get ~40 minutes of walking in, and then more on non-running days, and the much more on weekends.

Re the temperament of minis, it might be my impression based on the surge in popularity of mini poodles in my area and how many of them seem...tense? Particularly the smaller ones. But then it might be just not great breeding practices. Looking at the list of CKC breeders and seeing how many there are, there has to be a lot of outside breeding going on. If I could find a good reliable mini breeder in Ontario I’d be very happy.

@PeggyTheParti, by calm and non-barky, I just mean a dog that with sufficient training and exercise won’t bark excessively or be a raging indoors tornado. I was recommended poodle for this? The contrast I had in mind was my adorable but mega-yapper yorkie. Loved that little 5 lb rocket to bits but I’m surprised the neighbours didn’t murder us. No amount of training was going to quiet what generations of terrier instinct put in her. Exercise helped a little!

thanks again for the help! I’ve been using the forum for some questions and finally figured y’all are so helpful maybe I should post! :)
 

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Well bred minis are a rare sight. Most you have seen are likely poorly bred. Mine is not a barker though he enjoys barking during play. He bikes with me, and easily manages 2-3 miles but we have done up to 4. We waited until he was a year to start. He is high energy but not hyper. Very relaxed indoors. He does get super excited greeting people and gets the zoomies but not a crazy dog. He needs a minimum of an hour exercise to not go crazy. He is a larger mini, 15.5 lbs and 14-15". Find a breeder that is committed to helping you match with a puppy that is the right fit.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@For Want of Poodle - great idea, thank you! Is that to say that if a breeder isn’t on the poodle club of Canada list, then that’s a potential red flag?

@Raindrops - your mini sounds wonderful! I think I’d be very happy if I could get a mini like that.
 

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Hi!

It's a good indicator of a conscientious breeder if they belong to a breed club, but not a red flag simply because they don't. Read thru the Buying a Puppy Safely thread to get a feel for what to look for in and from a breeder.

Here's a link to a Breeder List with Additional Resources being complied.


Take a peek thru some of the Intro resources first, then skip the US listings and head south to Canada :). Of course, when border crossing for poodle purposes is open, there are some breeders in the US which might fit.
 

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I truly believe it is up to the individual poodle. I started showing and breeding standard poodles when I lived on the Upper West side of NYC. My landlord played the rent control game with me, so ,,, one year I might live in a two bedroom apartment, the next a studio, or a one bedroom. My standards were extremely adaptable in any apartment. I finally moved out of NYC when I was up to five standards in my apartment.
 

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I’ve never had an issue traveling on road trips with one spoo. I have done multiple long trips around Mexico, western US and BC and we are always able to find a hotel wiling accommodate us. Sometimes there are fewer options than if he were a mini, but we haven’t had an issue thus far. www.bringfido.com is a great resource we often use. I live in a house with a yard, but my 2.5 year old and 5 month old are usually sleeping or relaxing unless I initiate play or we’re outside. Things have changed a bit with the puppy, but for the most part she’s really calm inside and is willing to sleep in if that’s what I’m doing. If she ever gets antsy and our older dog doesn’t want to play with her, then a training session or bone is usually enough for her to calm down again. I think I’ve been blessed with relatively calm puppyhoods though. They do get a fair amount of daily physical and mental stimulation, but that’s to be expected for either size you’re considering in my opinion.
 

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Yes a mini would be the best option for the poodles. If your open to other breeds I would suggest a whippet, that’s a breed that most suits what you want. They are brilliant dogs they aren’t too vocal, they chill indoors and save their energy for outdoors, they are good running partners too
 

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Yes a mini would be the best option for the poodles. If your open to other breeds I would suggest a whippet, that’s a breed that most suits what you want. They are brilliant dogs they aren’t too vocal, they chill indoors and save their energy for outdoors, they are good running partners too
That's what I was thinking. Or an Italian greyhound. But I'm not sure they can run that many miles at a time.

Whatever you choose, Pudelkugel, you'll make it work. Dogs are always going to require that we sacrifice some of the daily conveniences we take for granted, but they give back tenfold.

Did I miss what part of Canada you're from? (I'm from Toronto!)

Maybe you could reach out to mini breeders across the border and get on a waitlist for a future litter.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thank you for the input! I am getting the feeling that while they’re gorgeous and my first love I may have to wait a bit for a spoo. I’ll turn my focus on mini breeders now using the resources on PF.

@Vee & @PeggyTheParti I did consider a whippet, but poodle personality and looks edged them out. I am ok with just taking a dog on the occasional shorter run (which a puppy couldn’t do for at least a year anyway). Longer/frequent runs were more on the “nice to have” side of the list. Plus, living in Canada the I think poor whippets would have to wear a jacket for most of the year!

and yes I live in Toronto! Moved to an area with more parks recently and beautiful spoos everywhere.
 

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and yes I live in Toronto! Moved to an area with more parks recently and beautiful spoos everywhere.
Yay! Such a wonderful city for dogs. My mini mix Gracie travelled by foot and/or subway with me every day to my office at Peter & Adelaide. She got so many cuddles and smiles from cranky morning commuters.
 

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@For Want of Poodle - great idea, thank you! Is that to say that if a breeder isn’t on the poodle club of Canada list, then that’s a potential red flag?

@Raindrops - your mini sounds wonderful! I think I’d be very happy if I could get a mini like that.
I wouldnt say it is a red flag if they aren't part of those organizations, just a source for classifieds that I missed. My poodle was advertised in a litter in the Poodle Club of Canada classifieds, but i only checked the CKC classifieds so never would have found the listing if I hadn't stumbled across a Facebook post from ANOTHER breeder mentioning the litter. I am afraid there is no comprehensive list of good vs. Bad breeders.
 
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